Hello,

I've been trying to take in all the information I could this weekend and I decided it was time to jump in. My husband and I are looking to replace our current innerspring mattress. We are big people - I'm almost 6 ft, he's over 6 ft and we are both heavy. Additionally he sleeps very hot. Based on what I could glean so far - I think we're aiming for latex. He is a back sleeper mostly but I'm pretty much a side sleeper and I can tell you right now he's going to choke at about the $999 threshold (Actually probably lower than that but I can probably push him that far). So any of those "DIYs" different on each side set ups are out.

I did see that Dreamline Mattresses was mentioned on here and they are in Cabot, AR which is not far from here so I'm planning on going there. Their website doesn't offer a lot of info so if anyone can offer any feedback I'd appreciate it.

Can anyone suggest any other Latex retailers in the Little Rock area - or Arkansas in general? We'll be in Dallas in July and plan on going to Ikea to look at their latex mattress options. (I've duly noted the info about the Edsele and the Heggedal)

Any other information you can offer a newbie on a budget would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Lara

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I believe that while latex could be a better solution because of it's combination of pressure relief, resilience, breathability, support, durability it's also true that it is among the most expensive mattress materials and it may not fit into your budget (at least for an all latex mattress). This means that you may be looking at the "best" of the partly latex options (with latex in the comfort layer). A high quality non latex option may also work well and can provide good value (high quality polyfoam over a good quality and supportive innerspring).

Because of it's longevity ... latex may also represent better value but budget restrictions being what they are ... the best value inside your budget would seem to be a reasonable goal.

There are a couple of "Little Rock" posts but no "Little Rock" thread so I'll amalgamate the information here and perhaps add a little bit as well. Some of these may be outside of your budget (such as the all latex options) but I'll include them for others in the area who may be looking at different choices.

www.jordanmattress.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer in Hot Springs. They make a range of mattresses including latex, innersprings, and memory foam and other high quality materials. Have been making mattresses for over 50 years. I talked with a salesperson there who had been working there for 18 years but I haven't had a chance to talk with the owner who is the "materials" expert. I would certainly include them in my research.

www.furniturerow.com/locations/locations...e.jsp?state=Arkansas Regional factory direct manufacturer with outlets in North Little Rock and Conway that makes a range of mattresses and makes 2 "mostly latex" models (Snowmass and Aspen) that use good quality materials and have good value. They also make a range of more traditional mattresses (innerspring/polyfoam) however they don't make any memory foam models. I would avoid the major brands they also carry and focus on their own mattresses.

www.dreamlinebedding.com/index.html Wholesale manufacturer in Cabot which makes a range of mattresses including memory foam and a latex/memory foam hybrid which use some high quality materials and look interesting. They are wholesale only so it would take a phone call to find out which retail outlets may carry them in Little Rock.

thebeddingmart.com/ Local retailer with various outlets in the Little Rock and surrounding areas. They carry 3 of the Pure Latex Bliss models (which aren't listed on their site) which are a very high quality lineup of talalay latex mattresses which are higher quality and better value than most mainstream mattresses but not in the same value range as many local manufacturers. They also a memory foam mattress made by Eads Brothers who is a wholesale manufacturer in Ft. Smith.

northlittlerockmattress.com/index.html Retail outlet in Cabot which carries some of the Dreamline mattresses on their floor (and can order what he doesn't have). While he doesn't know the densities of the memory foam or polyfoam used ... he is more than happy to call and find out for those who ask (and everyone should ask to know the quality of the materials used).

www.twincitybed.com/index.html Retail outlet in North Little Rock. They carry Sleeptronic and Corsicana which both make a wide range of mattresses but they carry mostly innerspring/polyfoam promotional mattresses and memory foam specialty bedding and don't carry latex on their floor. they are likely to carry the Corsicana gel foam mattresses soon as well. They do understand the importance of knowing the materials in their mattresses and are happy to provide the specs they know about or can find out.

Once again ... bear in mind that the only way to know the different quality/durability of foams that are used in a mattress is to know the density of any memory foam and polyfoam used. Lower density layers should be kept to an absolute minimum to avoid premature softening ... especially as the budget range increases. The easiest way to know this is to deal with someone who is knowledgeable about the different types of foams and mattress materials and also how to fit a mattress to a customer's needs and preferences instead of just saying "find the one that's the most comfortable". The more they know the less research you will need to do on your own.

This article may help you to know some of the qualities of better outlets and how to do some foam research before you go there.

Phoenix

Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.

I've sent some emails to make some initial contacts with the local manufacturers hopefully I can get some more specific content information and pricing specifics.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

Lara

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I would suggest talking to them on the phone rather than using email unless the questions have very simple few word black and white answers that can be answered in a single sentence.

In most cases though ... the questions that consumers usually ask have much more nuanced answers or answers that start with "it depends" and then a long list of variables that will change the answer. Because of this ... most manufacturers realize the email answers are at best incomplete and will often require back and forth replies over the course of several days or weeks which otherwise could have been dealt with in a few minutes. Because emails are many times more time intensive than phone calls to get to more accurate and meaningful answers ... they will often go to the end of the priority list. Many times what a consumer believes is a simple question about layering or material specs is actually much more complex than they may realize and they can take a lot of thought (and time) to try and discern what is really being asked. Most questions need "question" type of replies before any real answer can be given.

In addition to this ... many local manufacturers are more from the "old school" and much less high tech and much prefer to use voice communications rather than more high tech communications where they (and you) can't sense the "tone" of the conversation. In some cases there are manufacturers who make high quality products that don't even have a website or their website has little information and needs a phone call to fill in the gaps.

So basic or "yes or no" questions such as "what are your hours" emails may get a more timely reply (if they read them frequently and many don't) ... but even for these I would recommend a call which will give you a much greater sense of the type of person or outlet you are dealing with.

I should also mention that in many cases pricing specific questions may not be answered initially unless they are very "black and white" (pertaining to a specific mattress that they make themselves rather than a mattress that they carry that is made by someone else) or asked as part of a more involved conversation. This is because they understand that pricing questions without the context of materials or construction are often an indication of a consumer that is price shopping only (regardless of quality or the suitability of a mattress for a particular use or person) and may be looking to buy the cheapest mattress that is available without regard to the materials that are in it.

Phoenix

I am not anti phone and certainly plan to use it in the grand scheme of this process. However at this point I feel the questions I am asking are very black an white. As you know I am not in the price range of the custom made, I'm essentially working with their stock items so it comes down to "What is the content and specs of mattress X?" and how much does it cost? Or if you are wholesaler, where can I purchase it? I am very much still in the early fact finding phase, I have yet to even start my spreadsheet.

I have been emailing with Dreamline this morning and I have JPGs of spec sheets on 5 of their mattresses. Can I post them? Would you be able to provide feedback? Should I start another thread just for those? "Dreamline Specs" maybe?

Thanks.

PS - I found on the Twin City Mattress website where it says they carry Corsicana and Sleeptronic mattresses.

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Absolutely ... I would post them here (and keep everything in the same place)

Both of these brands are manufactured in TX, tend to focus on low to mid range budgets, and depending on the retail outlet can be better value than most larger more mainstream brands (although Corsicana is a fairly large manufacturer themselves and the owners are in the process of a rather aggressive expansion) although neither makes an all latex mattress that I'm aware of. They also both make a very wide range of mattresses using different combinations of components and materials. The key to shopping most alternative brands (rather than local manufacturers) is the ease with which you are able to obtain the "quality specs" of the materials (particularly polyfoam and memory foam density) and this will often depend on the approach of the retailer that carries them and their willingness and ability to answer these types of questions. I included them because their website seemed to indicate that they were more open and informative than the "norm" even though there are no specifics on their site (outside of the little box on their main page )

I'm looking forward to seeing what you discover.

Phoenix

Here are the specs on the Dreamline mattresses with even a modicum of latex in them (Well that's not true I left off the Innovation 4). I didn't "drill down" regarding any more specifics on "inches" or "densities" because I figured there would be some immediate weeding out of some of these.

Price Ranges for a King size mattress on all of these were as follows:
La Grande 3, $625 - $699
Winter Retreat, $650 - $750
Latex Supreme, $720 - $899
The Dream, $960 - $1399

As for Twin City and their brands, they were both in the $1500 range if I recall - apparently I didn't write it down but obviously they were significantly higher than these. I also got some information for Jordan bedding and Eads brothers. I'll post that shortly.

Here is some general information from Eads Brothers Furniture Co out of Ft. Smith AR. They only have 2 mattresses that are even partially latex.

1) "Pure" Euro Top. I have minimal data on this one but have requested more...
357 Verti-Coil 13.75 Gauge High Profile - 9" Foundation, Foam Encased Innerspring w/Latex Foam. Retails for about $850

2) "Resound" Euro Pillow Top. 847 Tri-Zone Pocket Coil Spring System Foam Encased Wireless Perimeter Palm Super Soft Convoluted Foam Anti-Microbial Pressure Relieving Latex. Retails for about $1,100 I've attached an image with a bit more detail. I have emailed back with a fairly extensive list of questions.

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

Thanks for posting the specs. I appreciate it.

Some comments but first a question. Do you know why there is a range of prices for the same mattress in the same size (King)?

La Grande 3, $625 - $699

I would want to know ...

- The material used in the quilting (and the density if it was polyfoam)
- The thickness and the type of latex
- It looks like they use two innersprings in the mattress. Is this the case or is the diagram incorrect (that would be unusual)?
- The density of the 5/8 polyfoam would be nice to know but I could live with less than an inch of unknown or lower density material.

I can't really make any more comments without knowing these.

Winter Retreat, $650 - $750

I would want to know ...

- The material used in the quilting (and the density if it was polyfoam)
- The thickness and the type of latex
- the thickness and the density of the convoluted foam.

Again ... without this it's difficult to make any real judgements

Latex Supreme, $720 - $899

I would want to know the type of latex but the polyfoam base is good quality and this appears (subject to the type of latex) to have good value and I would certainly consider it if it "fit" me in terms of PPP (pressure relief, posture and alignment, and preferences)

The Dream, $960 - $1399

I would want to know ...

- The type of latex
- The density of the convoluted polyfoam

This also has some good potential though and I personally happen to like the feel of a couple of inches of latex over memory foam. With the convoluted foam in the mix though as well as the upper layers of latex (probably softer) and memory foam, the comfort layers seem fairly thick and soft which may be good for side sleepers or those who like soft mattresses but I would make sure that alignment was good on this mattress. This one has an even bigger price range for the same mattress.

I would be leaning towards the last two ... so far.

I would want to know the details of the latex (thickness and type). I would also ask if there were any missing layers (there should at least be an insulator between the latex and the coils but there are likely some other missing layers as well as the details of the ticking/quilting). I'll make more comments when you have any more details.

This is made by a Chinese company called Stylution who purchased Wickline who used to make the Sleep Therapy brand. there are lots of layer details missing here as you know. In cases like these I would also want to know if any polyfoam was American made or CertiPur certified.

When you get the answers to your questions I'll be happy to make more comments. Thanks again for all your research.

Phoenix

Quick reply for the only answer I know off the top of my head. The range of prices is because Dreamline is a wholesaler, and the range represents the prices across the 3 places in central AR that carry their mattresses. And yes - the prices are for a King.

La Grande 3
-What material is used in the quilting Dreamsoft fiber quilting is is a fiber polyester blend along with polyurethane foam (1.2 density I'm guessing)
-What is the thickness and type of latex ½” and natural Talalay latex
-What is the density of the 5/8 polyfoam 1.2 density
- Can you explain to me about the coils... This is a coil on coil mattress so there are 936 total coils in a King, 13.5 gauge and the mattress can be flipped.

Winter Retreat
- The material used in the quilting (any polyfoam? What is the density?) Polyfoam…same density (1.2 I'm guessing)
- The thickness and the type of latex 1” Talalay
- the thickness and the density of the convoluted foam. 2 ½” 1.8 density

Latex Supreme
-What is the type of latex? Talalay…made in USA
-What is the cover made of? Stretch knit cotton/poly blend

The Dream
- The type of latex Talalay
- The density of the convoluted polyfoam 1.8 density
-The type of cover Stretch knit cotton/poly blend

Still trying to get the actual compression numbers (rating?) for the 1.2 and 1.8 polyfoams, and clarification on the poly in the quilting but I think I got everything else.

Here's some more info on the Eads Brothers...

Pure:
-Uses 1" of latex foam right below the quilting layer. It is Talalay Latex

-Has an insulator pad and a 1" piece of convoluted foam between the coils and the Latex Foam. 1.5 18 Conv foam. (The same as the resound.)

-The ticking has a Teddy Bear cover. It has 1.5" of super soft quilting foam quilted to the ticking.

Resound: I've attached a merge image of specification pics provided by Chris Eads. He said this was the extent of the info he has on this mattress.

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

I'm grateful for the research you are doing and I'm also happy that you are getting such good answers so quickly

It's also nice to see manufacturers that are so responsive and open about their materials (which is why I like smaller manufacturers or better outlets in general because the odds are better that you can get better information about their mattresses).

That makes perfect sense and also means that the lower price would be the most appropriate "value" price to use in comparisons.

Some general comments so that you can "fit" the information you are getting into the mix of materials in each mattress.

La Grande 3

Polyester fiber - This is a synthetic fiber which like all fibers will compress over time. It is used because it provides a soft quilting layer in a mattress which has a nice feel but or course is a synthetic materials and is not the same quality (or price) as a natural fiber like wool and will break down more quickly. I usually include it in the layers which may have "issues" over time because of softening, breakdown, or degradation all of which can change the feel of a mattress.

1.2 lb polyurethane foam - This is a low grade polyfoam which is generally used in quilting because it can be made very soft and is also very inexpensive. It is subject to softening and premature breakdown more quickly than higher density polyfoams (which can also be made very soft but are more expensive). This is the type of foam that I try to make sure is in total layers of around an inch (perhaps a slight bit more) or less. If it is only in thin layers ... then its softening will have less overall effect on the mattress. Thicker layers I would avoid completely (whether in the quilting or in the comfort layers).

Talalay latex is a great material but this is a very thin layer which will have much less effect on the mattress itself than a thicker layer.

Again ,... this is low density foam and the thickness should be added to any other low density foams or materials with possible "issues" in the upper layers (most subject to softening and wear) in order to evaluate the overall quality of the mattress.

This is a somewhat unusual construction with basically two innerspring support layers used in the same mattress with an insulator in between them. It would create a more giving support layer than a single innerspring but it wouldn'g compress twice as much (which a double spring would normally do) because of the modifying insulator in between them. In effect this is two lower coil count and firmer gauge innersprings added to each other to create a specific feel and performance. "Coil on coil" can have different meanings used by different manufacturers which include innersprings on boxsprings (which have coils), two sets of innersprings in a single mattress (as in this case), or an innerspring in the support layers combined with a type of innerspring called a microcoil that is used in the comfort layers of a mattress. All of these are often described as "coil on coil" even though they are very different.

Winter Retreat

Same material comments except for ...

This is getting into the better range of polyfoam that is used in the upper layers. An eggcrate is a way to make a firmer foam softer in the "convoluted" part (less material to compress) but still firmer in the non convoluted base. This gives the foam more softness with initial compression and more firmness with deeper compression (which can simulate the qualities of higher density foam which does this without the convoluting). The disadvantage of convoluting is there is less material which means more wear and tear with compression and less durability. It is also lower cost because two layers can be made from one solid layer of the same material. The advantage of higher density foam is that it is more durable. Firmer foam can also be more durable because it will be less subject to the same degree of mechanical compression.

Latex Supreme

Made in the USA talalay would mean it is from Latex International which is one of two talalay latex manufacturers that makes high quality Talalay that is used in North America (the other is Radium).

Stretch knit cotton/poly blend - Stretch knits are much more stretchy than woven materials and conform better to the softer layers underneath them. Polyester in the blend is less expensive than higher quality natural fiber fabrics (or "artificial" fabrics like bamboo rayon) and less breathable.

The Dream

Same comments as previous materials.

The compression numbers would not be "quality" issues and in the case of convoluted foams would be "distorted" because the ILD nd performance of the layer will be as affected by the convoluting (which has manydifferent patterns) than the ILD itself. The ILD of thin 1.2 lb quilting foam can be assumed to be very soft (you will see terms like hypersoft or supersoft) and they can all be assumed to have a very low ILD which would be "suitable" for the hand feel they are trying to achieve. I generally don't make an issue out of the ILD of quilting layers or convoluted layers because personal testing will tell me much more than the ILD numbers.

So this should give you what you need to decide if a mattress is really worth considering or where it may "rank" in your choices. Overall I look for the thinnest possible layers that could be "problems" or that could be the "weak link" of the mattress. The less "problems" or "possible weak links" the happier I am and the more inclined I would be to look seriously at the mattress ... and of course the lower the budget the more you can expect less expensive materials in the mattress.

I'll make some comments about your last post in my next reply.

Phoenix

Hi ZhivagosGirl,

OK ... some more comments about the Eads Brothers mattresses,

-Uses 1" of latex foam right below the quilting layer. It is Talalay Latex

This is a good quality material.

-Has an insulator pad and a 1" piece of convoluted foam between the coils and the Latex Foam. 1.5 18 Conv foam. (The same as the resound.)

I'm glad to see the insulator pad (to prevent the foam from compressing into the gaps between the low coil count innerspring).

1.5 lb density is on the low side for convoluted foam (which is less durable than non convoluted because it has less material).

In general ... and looking at the mattress itself (which is a Eurotop) ... it appears to me that there are more layers missing and there is more "stuff" than just the 1" of latex, the 1" of convolute, and the innerspring (a "value priced" offset verticoil) and an insulator. This only includes 2" of foam which doesn't seem to be enough to fill the eurotop much less what is in the quilting or the main body of the mattress. Since we are already at an inch of foam and and any other polyfoam needs to be added into the picture to find out how much low density polyfoam and synthetic fiber is in the mattress and quilting, not to mention the foam encasing (which is OK but a budget cutting way to make the edges firmer) ... I would probably drop this one. Once it gets too difficult to find out what I want to know or things don't "add up" ... I generally move on.

As a side note ... I generally ask for the price "mattress only" so that the variables of the foundation aren't added into the mix of comparisons.

Because this is made by a Chinese company and because the Chinese make some good quality as well as some poor quality materials ... I would hold this to a much more specific and higher standard of "knowing" what was in the mattress.

Innerspring:

Seems to be a high quality zoned pocket coil with higher than average turns and a good coil count. Also foam encased which is OK but a way of cutting costs. At least it has a border rod (edge firmness and keeps the shape better).

Quilt top:

FR fiber (who knows what is added to make the synthetic polyester fiber fire retardant.

.5" 1514 palm foam ... OK for a quilting layer (better than 1.2 and not too thick). This is "Palm Foam" though which means it has some filler material in it (palm fibers) which can lower the durability of the foam and give it a false density. This is done as an inexpensive way to change the characteristics of the foam (make it stiffer/firmer, higher ILD, more resilient, cheaper etc).

Stretch ticking (which is good but probably synthetic fabric or it would say).

Upholstery Top:

1" Dunlop latex. Doesn't say if this is blended with synthetic or 100% natural (which I strongly prefer in Dunlop).
2" 1817 convolute (1.8 lb density 17 ILD). This is "OK" ... see previous comments about convoluted. It's also under the Dunlop which puts it lower in the mattress and makes it compress a little less which increases durability.
1" 1518 convolute. Lower density but also lower in the mattress. A way to use lower quality materials and "get away with it" because they are a little less prone to compression.

Upholstery Bottom:
1.5" 1.2 lb 20 ILD polyfoam. Very low density/quality

Border foam is on the sides for FR purposes and not a significant part of the performance of the mattress.

total foam = 1.5" + 1.5" + 2" + 1" + .5" = 6.5"
Innerspring = 7"

Total height should be about 13.5" plus the thickness of various fabrics and fiber.
It says the thickness is 14.5" so we know we have it all.

Overall though ... while this has a good zoned innerspring ... there is too much lower density/quality foam in it for me to seriously consider. If I was to consider it ... I would want to make sure that any foam used was CertiPur certified. While most North American produced foam is safe (although I would avoid FR synthetic fibers and foam) ... I would definately make sure that any non North American foam was certified by a reputable organization. this would also be very soft with a lot of soft foam over a fairly soft innerspring (although the middle area is firmer which is good).

Again I prefer mattress only prices but I'm not particularly excited about either of these.

Phoenix

As usual thanks for the thorough replies. Another quick note, all the prices I've listed have been for just King mattresses. Frankly - I'm somewhat relieved to mark those off the list because they are in Fort Smith - if I'm really hard pressed and have to leave town, Memphis is actually closer! I'll respond in more detail to your Dreamline comments in a bit. I wanted to get this last thing posted.

The last Arkansas manufacturer is Jordan Brothers in Hot Springs. I have gotten some information from them but, they have been the least forthcoming. I have both called and emailed and they have been minimally responsive. My plan is to call tomorrow and be more pointed in my questioning. If they aren't interested in spending the time to answer my questions, I'll take them off my list. They are the at the top of my price point and Hot Springs is a drive for us so if they aren't going to make it easy I'm not going to go out of my way to give them my money.

The quote I got from them was for their Talalay Latex - King Size. For the mattress alone it would be $1,295. I do have a graphic but it tells ya a whole lot of nothing. Maybe you can glean something out of it...