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TOPIC: Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions

Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Mar 2013 09:13 #46

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Hi Kjantj35
Do you think we would get 5-7 years out of this ultimate dream mattress? That's about the going rate for me and a mattress hence why I am not paying $4000.

You have been fortunate to have mattresses last that long with your body type. It would be reasonable to expect that the Ultimate Dreams would have a similar or even better lifespan than most mattresses but it would also depend on the mattresses you were comparing it with. It has better quality materials than many other mattresses at significantly higher prices. How long a mattress will last for any specific person though is really relative to the person themselves as well as the design of the mattress and depends a great deal on how long long it takes for the inevitable foam softening of any mattress to result in the loss of comfort and/or support to a degree that puts you over the line of your specific pressure relief and support needs. You can read more about the relative durability of mattresses and the different factors involved in durability in post #2 here. If you choose a mattress that is just "on the edge" of being too soft and providing the support/alignment you need ... then foam softening can take you over the line more quickly even though the materials aren't "worn out" and the same mattress would still be fine for someone else that was still inside the range of their comfort and support needs. I generally wouldn't recommend 4 lb memory foam for someone of your height and weight no matter who the manufacturer was.
Also do you think the extra 1" latex layer in the prodigy makes much of a difference vs the construction of the dream foam bed?

There are actually more differences between them than just an extra inch of slow recovery latex.

The Prodigy has the following layers ...

2" KoolComfort Memory Foam: 5 lb density. Good quality/density
1" Comfort Foam: 1.3 lb density. Low quality
1" Cool Reaction Slow Recovery Latex: Good quality
2 3/4" CoolAction Gel Memory Foam: 4.1 lb density. Medium quality/density.
6" ComfortLast Support Core: Lower density/quality polyfoam (probably 1.5 lbs)

The Ultimate Dreams has the following layers

3" of 4 lb gel memory foam
2" of 5 lb memory foam
8" of premium base foam (I believe this is 1.5 lb polyfoam).

So I'm not sure exactly what aspects you are wondering about in terms of the differences between them but if you mean the difference in how they may feel then the "feel" of the Ultimate Dreams is similar to the Cloud Luxe but just a little firmer so the difference between it and the Prodigy would be similar to the difference between the Cloud Luxe and the Produgy and you could test this to see what the differences feel like for you (different people may perceive this differently)

The comfort layers of the prodigy are thicker (6.75") than the Ultimate Dreams (5") and with this much thick/soft foam on top (about 2" more) it would be a more risky construction for you because of the possibility of your hips/pelvis sinking down too far before they reached and were "stopper" by the support layers. This could easily lead to alignment and back issues.

In addition to this ... the support layer of the Ultimate Dreams is higher quality than the Prodigy.

Again though ... I would be very cautious using 4 lb memory foam at your weight and if I was to purchase any mattress that used it because of its comfort then I would have lower expectations concerning durability.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 20 May 2013 11:31 by Phoenix.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Mar 2013 12:53 #47

WOW thanks for the information and feedback in such a quick manner. So we both tried the prodigy and Luxe and like the feel of both i tended to like the prodigy vs my wife liking the luxe more. It was easy to come away with the "I would be very cautious using 4 lb memory foam at your weight" from your feedback with that in mind what kind of memory foam would i be looking for that gives that plush sinking feeling like what my wife likes but has a higher density of foam then 4 Ib's? i seen selectfoam has a 8 lb density foam is that what your suggesting or other? Thanks again you saved me from possibly ordering this morning and making a mistake.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Mar 2013 17:36 #48

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Hi Kjandtj35,

I should mention first of all that all of this is more a matter of knowing the tradeoffs rather than any particular material being a "mistake". If a 4 lb density memory foam or gel memory foam is the density that provides the feel, comfort, and support that someone wants, then it may still be the best choice for that person as long as they know they may be trading the feel they want for durability.

In general ... higher densities of any foam will be more durable than lower densities and this is fairly progressive with memory foam until you get into the 5 or 6 lb range at which point the relative durability benefits of higher densities start to level off.

So with heavier weights I would look for memory foam in the 5 lb and higher range. the tradeoff for this though is that they tend to feel firmer to people ... especially if their weight is lighter.

Memory foam is also a little tricky because how soft it feels is dependent on many factors including the force applied to it, humidity, temperature, and time. Fast response foams tend to respond mainly to the force applied. What this means for example is that memory foam that has warmed up under the heat of the body for a while will feel softer than memory foam that is a little cooler when you first lie on it so if you roll over and change positions, the foam beside you that you are moving into will feel firmer while the foam under you will feel softer. The density of memory foam is also not directly related to firmness and softness so lower density memory foam can be firmer than higher density memory foam depending on the chemical formulation used. Two different types of memory foam that have the same density will be roughly comparable in durability terms in other words but can feel very different from each other depending on the chemical formula used to make them. As a generic guideline though ... 4 lb memory foam will feel softer overall to most people than 5 lb memory foam. You can read more about all the different varieties of memory foam in post #9 here and in post #8 here.

All of this can be quite complex and "overwhelming" though when there are so many factors to consider and the simplest way is to use foam density and thickness as your guideline along with how your body feels on different mattresses that use various densities of memory foam which can give you a rough guideline. I would suggest testing Tempurpedic mattresses that include their higher density memory foam in the Contour collection (Rhapsody, Allura, Grand Bed) to see how "soft" higher density memory foam (that is "broken in) feels to both of you as well as their weightless collection which includes thinner layers of lower density memory foam over more resilient foam. The less lower density memory foam there is in the upper layers and the more durable the foam below it is the less foam softening will affect you. In other words ... if you must have 4 lb memory foam in the top layers because of how it feels for your wife (lighter weights sink in less so foams that feel soft to you may feel firmer to her) ... the less of it the better in terms of durability.

One other advantage you may have is that your previous mattresses lasted for longer than would often be typical for your weight (again this would depend on what was in the mattresses which I don't know) but this may point to you being less sensitive to foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it than other people of your height and weight so for you a mattress that uses less durable materials may last a little longer than the "norm" for your height and weight.

Everything is a tradeoff and there is nothing "wrong" with trading durability for comfort. There is also nothing "wrong" with trading support (less sinking in) for its opposite which is comfort (more sinking in) as long as you are still in your acceptable range for both (comfort issues tend to be related to pressure points while support issues tend to be related to spinal alignment and back pain). A mattress that is supportive for a lighter weight may not be supportive enough for a heavier weight and allow some of the heavier parts of the body to sink in too far and cause alignment issues and back pain. finding the balance between the two of you is part of the challenge.

Some mattresses even have side to side "splits" or other designs that can accommodate weight differences between couples more effectively (see post #2 here). All of this is why it can be very helpful to deal with a mattress retailer or manufacturer who is very knowledgeable about mattress construction and materials and how to "fit" the needs and preferences of different types of people so they can help and guide you into making the most suitable choices for both of you no matter what is most important to you. How well you sleep can be just as important for many people as how long a mattress lasts or any other tradeoff ... as long as you are making tradeoffs knowingly by choice rather than being "surprised" in a few years down the road when a mattress using lower density materials don't last as long as a similar mattress that uses higher density and more durable materials.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 05 Mar 2013 17:42 by Phoenix.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Mar 2013 23:47 #49

Has anyone that has had this mattress for more than a couple months experienced any body impressions/sagging? Im about to pull the trigger on it after sleeping on the couch for two months and researching mattress's for twice that.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 06 Mar 2013 19:17 #50

Phoenix wrote:
Hi Kjandtj35,

I should mention first of all that all of this is more a matter of knowing the tradeoffs rather than any particular material being a "mistake". If a 4 lb density memory foam or gel memory foam is the density that provides the feel, comfort, and support that someone wants, then it may still be the best choice for that person as long as they know they may be trading the feel they want for durability.

In general ... higher densities of any foam will be more durable than lower densities and this is fairly progressive with memory foam until you get into the 5 or 6 lb range at which point the relative durability benefits of higher densities start to level off.

So with heavier weights I would look for memory foam in the 5 lb and higher range. the tradeoff for this though is that they tend to feel firmer to people ... especially if their weight is lighter.

Memory foam is also a little tricky because how soft it feels is dependent on many factors including the force applied to it, humidity, temperature, and time. Fast response foams tend to respond mainly to the force applied. What this means for example is that memory foam that has warmed up under the heat of the body for a while will feel softer than memory foam that is a little cooler when you first lie on it so if you roll over and change positions, the foam beside you that you are moving into will feel firmer while the foam under you will feel softer. The density of memory foam is also not directly related to firmness and softness so lower density memory foam can be firmer than higher density memory foam depending on the chemical formulation used. Two different types of memory foam that have the same density will be roughly comparable in durability terms in other words but can feel very different from each other depending on the chemical formula used to make them. As a generic guideline though ... 4 lb memory foam will feel softer overall to most people than 5 lb memory foam. You can read more about all the different varieties of memory foam in post #9 here and in post #8 here.

All of this can be quite complex and "overwhelming" though when there are so many factors to consider and the simplest way is to use foam density and thickness as your guideline along with how your body feels on different mattresses that use various densities of memory foam which can give you a rough guideline. I would suggest testing Tempurpedic mattresses that include their higher density memory foam in the Contour collection (Rhapsody, Allura, Grand Bed) to see how "soft" higher density memory foam (that is "broken in) feels to both of you as well as their weightless collection which includes thinner layers of lower density memory foam over more resilient foam. The less lower density memory foam there is in the upper layers and the more durable the foam below it is the less foam softening will affect you. In other words ... if you must have 4 lb memory foam in the top layers because of how it feels for your wife (lighter weights sink in less so foams that feel soft to you may feel firmer to her) ... the less of it the better in terms of durability.

One other advantage you may have is that your previous mattresses lasted for longer than would often be typical for your weight (again this would depend on what was in the mattresses which I don't know) but this may point to you being less sensitive to foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it than other people of your height and weight so for you a mattress that uses less durable materials may last a little longer than the "norm" for your height and weight.

Everything is a tradeoff and there is nothing "wrong" with trading durability for comfort. There is also nothing "wrong" with trading support (less sinking in) for its opposite which is comfort (more sinking in) as long as you are still in your acceptable range for both (comfort issues tend to be related to pressure points while support issues tend to be related to spinal alignment and back pain). A mattress that is supportive for a lighter weight may not be supportive enough for a heavier weight and allow some of the heavier parts of the body to sink in too far and cause alignment issues and back pain. finding the balance between the two of you is part of the challenge.

Some mattresses even have side to side "splits" or other designs that can accommodate weight differences between couples more effectively (see post #2 here). All of this is why it can be very helpful to deal with a mattress retailer or manufacturer who is very knowledgeable about mattress construction and materials and how to "fit" the needs and preferences of different types of people so they can help and guide you into making the most suitable choices for both of you no matter what is most important to you. How well you sleep can be just as important for many people as how long a mattress lasts or any other tradeoff ... as long as you are making tradeoffs knowingly by choice rather than being "surprised" in a few years down the road when a mattress using lower density materials don't last as long as a similar mattress that uses higher density and more durable materials.

Phoenix

Ok I am starting to understand better how the foam and density's work vs the trade off of comfort and durability. I took your advice tried out the higher density beds you mentioned, the one both me and my wife like was the rhapsody breeze. Can you tell me about the construction of this bed and if any of the competitors such as Brooklyn beds or other have duplicated the build with success? I seen select foam seems to have a marketing of comparing theirs skus to temperpedic skus. I know nothing about select foam though and theirs prices seem to be a little higher then other competitors I did see they use a 8lb density? The largest I have seen was 5lb.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 06 Mar 2013 22:13 #51

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Hi Kjandtj35,

The Tempurpedic Rhapsody (and the Rhapsody Breeze) has the following layering ...

1.2" of TEMPUR-HD material 7 lb density.
2.8" of TEMPUR material 5.3 lb density
8" Dual AirFlow System™. This is generally thought to be 2.2 lb density although Tempurpedic doesn't disclose this so if they have lowered the density since they did it would not be known for certain.

You can see the layering of the Select Foam Regalis here.

As you can see all the layers are gel memory foam and uses the same or slightly higher quality foam.

Post #2 here talks about the 3 ways that you can duplicate another mattress.

As you can see ... you can sometimes duplicate the "feel" of a mattress using very different layering or quality of materials but this is very subjective. If the design, layering, or quality/density of materials are different between two mattresses, then one person may experience both as feeling "the same' while another that sinks into the mattresses differently (because of body type or sleeping style or even different sensitivities) may feel that the same two mattresses are different because they are feeling different layers than the first. In addition to this ... if the quality and durability of the layers are different then one mattress may not feel the same as the other for long because the foams in each will soften at different rates. If the foams used in a mattress that "matches" the feel of another are lower quality ... then that mattress will also not be as durable.

The second way it to duplicate the specific design or layering using similar density and thickness of materials and components. Because the same density foams can feel and perform differently ... this type of "duplication" may not "feel" the same because even though the foams may have the same quality/durability ... then may perform or feel differently. For a 'duplicate" design to have the same "feel" you would need to use near identical foams and materials in every layer or possibly from the same foam supplier. This is not always possible and in the case of Tempurpedic their foam is only available to them. Higher quality or density foams can also be significantly more costly than lower quality or density foams.

Finally you can have manufacturers that duplicate both the "feel" and the design and quality of the materials. In general they would need to design the mattress with very similar layering and then test the two mattresses with a broad range of people to assure themselves that the common "feel" is the opinion of a majority of people. Of course if the materials that produce the "feel" of a mattress are higher quality/density then the cost of that mattress would also be much more than mattresses that only duplicated the feel using either less or lower quality/density materials.

In the case of Select Foam ... they are in the third group where they matchthe construction and the quality/density of the foams and then test their mattresses against the equivalent Tempurpedic models in their bricks and mortar showroom where they are set up side by side and their customers can do a real time comparison of both and provide their feedback. There may be minor differences in the mattresses to accommodate the differences between foams (slightly thicker or thinner layers) but this would be as accurate as it was possible to be in the perception of the majority of people.

You can see a list of some of the better online memory foam manufacturers or retailers that I believe are better quality/value in post #12 here and some of these may also have mattresses that match the "feel" of some of the Tempurpedic models even if they may not always match the design and construction or use lower density materials to accomplish it.

Some of these such as Rocky Mountain Mattress can also custom design and build a memory foam mattress to any design or layering that you may want (within the limits of what their materials make possible).

These would be well worth looking at their sites and talking to on the phone so you can get a clear sense and know your own level of confidence that any of these can "match" one of the Tempurpedics in feel, design, or both. I don't believe that any of the gel memory foam mattresses that are on the Ultimate Dreams site or on their own Brooklyn bedding site would match the Rhapsody if that is the Tempurpedic model that is closest to your needs and preferences.

The foam layering in the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Breeze is the same as the Rhapsody except it uses a gel coating and gel in the cover to create a slightly cooler initial sleeping surface (at least until temperatures equalize). There are many ways that different memory foams can be made cooler either for a short while or over the course of the night to offset the tendency of memory foam to sleep warmer for many people which you can read about in post #6 here.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 06 Mar 2013 22:29 by Phoenix.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 08 Mar 2013 00:09 #52

Alright I appreciate all the Massive information you made available to me and I am happy to say my wife and I have purchased ...the Ultimate Dreams 13" gel mattress from Brooklyn bedding. We just felt that the reviews were just to good for the value and we wanted to take advantage of that. Also she set me straight on our current mattress situation we have which is no where near the 7 years I thought we were at ...it's only been 3 years and it was a cheap Serta® Edgebrooke Eurotop Mattress from sams club apparently I have been hallucinating or something as she showed me the manufacturing date and explained her parents bought that for us as a present. But it was with that info that helped me pick this dreamfoam mattress, you see after researching the serta we have now its from sams club and it had 12 reviews equaling to a 2 star rating. With several sore and painful back comments and to firm which it really is. So I figured we can't go wrong with 19 almost 5 star reviews on amazon! Also purchased their 14" high rise platform for the mattress. Can't wait to receive this and hopefully write a good review here to share our experience with everyone. And I made sure to mention the mattressunderground sites so I Hope I get the free latex pillows incentive. Thanks again!
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 08 Mar 2013 03:08 #53

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Hi Kjandtj35,
I have been hallucinating or something as she showed me the manufacturing date and explained her parents bought that for us as a present

That's funny. I could tell you many stories about times I was "absolutely sure" that my memory of something was accurate and was amazed (or shocked) when someone proved to me that it wasn't!

Can't wait to receive this and hopefully write a good review here to share our experience with everyone. And I made sure to mention the mattressunderground sites so I Hope I get the free latex pillows incentive. Thanks again!

You certainly made a good quality/value choice and I'm looking forward to your review. It's always great to see when people know what they are buying so they can make the choices and the tradeoffs that are most important to them instead of "buying blind"..

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 08 Mar 2013 03:09 by Phoenix.
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Apr 2013 19:45 #54

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Hello all!

After a couple weeks of frivolous browsing, laying on mattresses, and picking apart reviews, I am placing an order for the Ultimate Dreams 13" next week! This is my first "nice" mattress purchase and I'm very excited about it. I'll post the final verdict in a few weeks! Thanks for all the helpful information too! I'm sure it will be amazing to say the least from everything I've read.

- Joe
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 05 Apr 2013 21:32 #55

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Hi Joe2malt,

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 18 Apr 2013 02:29 #56

So like every other person on this site, I'm very curious about the dreamfoam mattress, and it seems people that get them don't come back. What would you guys say about the sealy elation for a discounted price? I know why we are against them but if we lowered the sale price to 1400, is it then a reasonable mattress? Looking at the king dreamfoam 13" gel or the sealy elation. The elation is available on eBay for 1400. Now, it doesn't have a warranty but with my amex I get 1 year.... Is it still a better idea to go the dreamfoam route?
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 18 Apr 2013 04:28 #57

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Hi Charlesjc,

Here are a couple of points that may be worth considering ...

First if a mattress is being sold without a warranty ... the odds are high that it is either a comfort return or a defective mattress in some way and I personally wouldn't consider it. At the very least I wouldn't pay more than 50% of it's "best value"price I could find elsewhere and even that would depend on the materials in the mattress.

Second ... assessing the "value" of a mattress based on its regular selling price which in the case of major brands are highly inflated is one of the worst ways of determining value in a mattress.

Third ... how certain are you that the Elation will match your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences). A mattress that has 7" of memory foam that is in the 4 lb range is a very risky construction for most people in terms of alignment ... especially when the 4 lb memory foam softens over time.

The only way to know the relative quality/value of any mattress is to know the details of all the layers so you can make meaningful comparisons to other similar mattresses. Do you know the specific details of what is in the Elation?

In terms of quality and value ... the 13" gel memory foam uses higher quality materials in the most important comfort layers (a combination of 4 and 5 lb memory foams) which are the most important layers in terms of quality and durability (and the risk of foam softening which can lead to the loss of comfort and support) and sells for about 2/3 the price compared to a mattress that has no warranty and may be used.

For me there is no comparison in terms of "value" and there is no doubt which direction I would be leaning out of the two options you are considering (or vs many other better quality/value options for memory foam mattresses as well) ... but of course each person may have their own personal value equation which may be very different from mine or other people and only you can decide on the risks you are willing to take and on what are the most important parts of value for you.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 18 Apr 2013 13:41 #58

Ahhh, thank you Phoenix! I didn't even think about it being a returned mattress for a comfort defect. I guess that settled it for me, and will try and go for the Dreamfoam mattress.

Thanks again for the help, I will report back after sleeping on it.

Regards,
JC
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 22 Apr 2013 20:02 #59

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Hello again,

Just wanted to give my first impression mattress review! As mentioned, the box came in looking like it was on the front lines of WWI but the mattress itself was in pristine condition. After the struggle to get it unwrapped, I got it set up of course I had to lay on it. Even without it expanding fully, I knew I made a solid choice. It was just as good as any big brand name with comparable memory foam layers. There was a bit of off-gassing but nothing major. After a week it has subsided quite a bit as well. After sleeping on it for the last week I am completely satisfied. It has a great balance of "sink in comfy softness" and support (keep in mind I'm only 150lbs). The materials used, build, everything is top notch.

Basically, if you liked the feel of the cloud supreme I wouldn't hesitate to make the purchase of this mattress. Me and my girlfriend are sleeping great, and we wish we hadn't gone so long without it! 5/5 stars
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Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel Memory Foam Mattress - First Impressions 23 Apr 2013 02:29 #60

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Hi Joe2Malt,

Thanks for taking the time to update us and sharing your experiences :)

Phoenix
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