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TOPIC: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7"

In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 25 Oct 2012 14:32 #1

  • yoshi
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Hello,

My sleeping partner and I
135 - 140 pounds
5'6" - 5'9".

Sleeping positions
- She is mostly a side sleeper, but also back.
- I'm mostly back, but also side and occasionally stomach.

The mattress must be 7" in depth to fit in in the murphy bed casing.
Pic of the bed foundation beech pressed slats:


Because of the max depth, I guess we'll have less options for layering and such.

3" Talalay comfort layer and 4" Dunlop core layer? It'd be nice to have the wool quilting for temperature regulation.

Any suggested configurations are much appreciated.


Regards,
Yoshi
Last Edit: 25 Oct 2012 14:37 by yoshi.
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 25 Oct 2012 16:01 #2

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Hi yoshi,

As you can see from post #1 here ... the first steps in finding the best mattress is to exclude the worst choices (which it appears that you've done), some initial research about layering and materials (which it also appears that you've done) and then to research the best sources in your area and/or online (such as those listed in post #21 here) if necessary.

If you let me know the city or zip where you live I'd be happy to let you know of any better options I know of in your area.

From the looks of your "restrictions" and because you seem to prefer latex ... you would be looking at a mattress that contained 6" - 7" of latex depending on the thickness of the quilting/ticking. 6" of latex would be much more common (because this is the thickness of most latex cores) and with a quilting layer (such as wool) you would finish out at about 7".

There may be a few options that have 7" of latex such as the Ikea here but the quilting in the mattress means that the finished mattress is closer to 8".

In most cases ... this will be a single core where your choices are limited to soft, medium, or firm and either Dunlop or Talalay latex depending on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers may offer two 3" layers which would give you a little more flexibility in layering choices.

Since you are both lighter you will be able to get away with softer foams than someone who was heavier.
In a single 6" layer mattress ... 100% natural Dunlop may make a good choice because it has a higher compression modulus which means that it gets firmer faster than a similar ILD/IFD (softness rating) of Talalay. This means that it can be softer with initial compression (for pressure relief) and yet firmer with deeper compression (for alignment) than the same ILD of Talalay which may make it more suitable for a wide range of sleeping positions. Dunlop also has a slightly softer side and a firmer side which can enhance this effect to different degrees (depending on the manufacturer of the Dunlop). In a mattress that had two 3" layers of Talalay ... a softer 3" layer over a firmer 3" layer can approximate the same effect (softer with initial compression and firmer with deeper compression). Because there are so many variables involved ... your own personal local testing (especially with the help of some good guidance) can be more accurate than what I call "theory at a distance" though so I would test both Talalay and Dunlop if they are available because they also have a different "feel".

I think wool quilting would also be a good choice.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 25 Oct 2012 16:27 #3

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Appreciate the reply Phoenix,

I'm in Toronto. Your post here will guide me to contact manufacturers.

The bed frame is almost regular queen size:
Lenght: 79"
Width: 59"

Among the mattresses that I'll search for, I'll try the Ikea Sultan Edsele first (since it's ready to go). Looks like I can squish it in the bed frame… there would be a negligible effect on the latex performance/durability? Otherwise, during my search, I'll make sure to get a custom size (79x59).

Other than the Ikea option, I'll look into a single core and layering two 3" cores of either Talalay or Dunlop. Do you think it'd be possible to layer 3" Talalay for the softer core on top of a firmer 3" Dunlop?
Dunlop also has a slightly softer side and a firmer side which can enhance this effect to different degrees (depending on the manufacturer of the Dunlop)

By this you mean that, you mean in a single core?

BTW, I left you a tip :)
Last Edit: 25 Oct 2012 16:28 by yoshi.
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 25 Oct 2012 17:37 #4

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Hi yoshi,

I'm glad you found the "Toronto" list. There are some good options there :)
Other than the Ikea option, I'll look into a single core and layering two 3" cores of either Talalay or Dunlop. Do you think it'd be possible to layer 3" Talalay for the softer core on top of a firmer 3" Dunlop?

Absolutely if the manufacturer or retailer you are looking at offers this.
Looks like I can squish it in the bed frame… there would be a negligible effect on the latex performance/durability?

The latex should be fine with such a small degree of "squishing". Longer term and much greater constant compression may affect it but not this small amount.
Dunlop also has a slightly softer side and a firmer side which can enhance this effect to different degrees (depending on the manufacturer of the Dunlop)

By this you mean that, you mean in a single core?

Yes ... the latex particles in Dunlop will settle more than with Talalay (which is flash frozen during manufacturing so the latex particles don't have the chance to settle as much and has a more consistent cell structure and latex distribution). The degree of difference will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer depending on their specific manufacturing method and techniques and it would be more noticeable with a 6" core than with a 3" layer which would be cut from either the top half (softer) or the lower half (firmer) of a full layer.
BTW, I left you a tip

Thank you ... I certainly appreciate it :)

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 25 Oct 2012 21:05 by Phoenix.
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 27 Oct 2012 10:39 #5

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I visited Foamite.
They offer Talalay only in medium ILD.
They also have Dunlopillo in variant ILDs.

Is there a difference between Dunlopillo other Dunlop manufacturers? Are they the same manufacturers or companies? I'm confused
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 27 Oct 2012 16:19 #6

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Hi yoshi,

Dunlopillo and Dunlop are two very different things. Dunlopillo is a brand name which used to be the name of a company that made Talalay latex in England but they went bankrupt and the name (and their equipment) was bought out by many different companies around the world (and is currently owned by many different manufacturers in different countries that make latex mattresses). Latex International for example owns it in the US, South America, and several European countries. I never did find out who owns the trademark in Canada although I did track down most of the other countries around the world. Dunlopillo mattresses may use Talalay or Dunlop latex in various areas of the world depending on who their latex supplier is.

The Dunlop process on the other hand is a method that is used to make latex just like the Talalay process.

So it could be that their Dunlopillo (which would probably be Talalay) is only available in a single ILD and their "other" Talalay is available in alternative ILD's. They may also offer Dunlop and be calling it Dunlopillo incorrectly thinking they are the same.

So the key is to identify the type of latex (Talalay or Dunlop) and the blend (the percentage of synthetic and natural rubber) regardless of the brand attached to it. Many people confuse Dunlopillo the brand with Dunlop the latex manufacturing process.

At the moment ... and since the bankruptcy of Dunlopillo, the two main manufacturers of Talalay latex (outside of China) are Radium in the Netherlands and Latex International in the US.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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Re: In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 03 Nov 2012 16:08 #7

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yep,
I was there too and found out that their dumopillo is actually Talalay latex with a single ILD, 26. Strange.
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 23 Feb 2013 17:42 #8

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Just to let everyone know of my journey,

I returned the IKEA mattress because it was too firm and a bit too big for my murphy bed.

I'm either going with two layers of 3" Talalay ILD 26
Or
One layer of talalay and a supporting layer of synthetic foam

Purchasing from Foamite.
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 24 Feb 2013 00:31 #9

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Hi yoshi,

Thanks for the feedback :)

I hope you have a chance to let us know what you end up deciding and how it works for you once you've had the chance to sleep on it. As you know ... they have more options with a polyfoam transition layer to customize the feel and performance of the mattress than they do with latex (they only have one ILD) so with some careful testing for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) and some helpful guidance from them your odds of making the "best" choice for you are much better..

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 21 Mar 2013 12:59 #10

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Hi Phoenix

At Foamite, the salesperson (Bill) was… nice. Initially he suggested to put a polyfoam transition layer underneath, but then we ended up with going all Talalay. I had my mind undecided, however; I indicated that I wanted a good supporting core.
He didn't provide any testing (I assume they don't have a 3" Talalay + 3" polyfoam hanging around the store?).
I requested a cover with the least amount of synthetic off-gassing material, to which he suggested Visco Natura.
I had the sense that he was just trying to close the sale.
So my reaction to Foamite is mixed.

I ended up purchasing from them anyways :silly:

I'm awaiting the arrival of the mattress today.

6" Talalay core + Visco Natura Cover + Delivery + 13% tax = $1783

Do you have any information about the Visco Natura Cover? The salesperson mentioned it was from Belgium.


I probably should've checked out Dreamstar Bedding, Ideal Mattress and Dreamtime for a Dunlop core!

I do remember calling Mario from Sleepworks and he just asked why I only wanted a 6" Dunlop core… I kept on explaining to him the limitation of my bed, but he didn't understand.

I'll report back tonight with pictures!
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2013 13:10 by yoshi.
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 21 Mar 2013 19:15 #11

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Hi yoshi,
Do you have any information about the Visco Natura Cover? The salesperson mentioned it was from Belgium.

This is a rayon or cellulosic "semi-synthetic" material which can be derived from many types of cellulose and is spun into fabric. Their site says it's "viscous" which means "in between a solid and a liquid" but it's actually viscose which is a "cellulosic solution". Bamboo, Beech, Eucalyptus, Aloe Vera, and many others are examples of different sources of cellulose which can be made into different forms of rayon. You can read more about viscose rayon fabrics in post #7 here.

If it comes from Belgium it may be from DesleeClama but of course I don't know where they buy their ticks from.

I'm looking forward to your pictures and feedback ... and congratulations on your new mattress :)

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 22 Mar 2013 00:38 #12

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I'm reading your post on viscose rayon fabrics as I type … multitasking! :cheer: thanks

My initial reaction to the new Foamite mattress was "That smells funky!" :sick: hehe It's not very very strong, but it certainly is present.

The feel of the mattress was the it's very soft. I feel like I'm sinking too much.
I'll report back after some nights of sleeping on it.

Here are some pics of the mattress freshly installed with bedsheets peeled off:




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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 22 Mar 2013 02:01 #13

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Hi yoshi,
The feel of the mattress was the it's very soft. I feel like I'm sinking too much.
I'll report back after some nights of sleeping on it.

Time will certainly tell when you sleep on it for a while but 26 ILD would be on the soft side. The good news of course is that latex can be more forgiving because it has a higher support factor (gets firmer as you sink into it so it can also be more supportive even in softer ILD's) and the thinner mattress would also make it firmer than if it was thicker.

It also looks like your cover has polyfoam and polyester fiber quilting ... which isn't a durability issue with thin layers but may contribute to the 'funky" smell although latex also has some initial odor.

Your mattress certainly looks beautiful and I'm looking forward to your ongoing feedback.

Thanks too for the pictures :)

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2013 02:03 by Phoenix.
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 30 Sep 2013 11:20 #14

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Phoenix gave me great advice with the Dunlop 6" core…

The Foamite salesman certainly did not help. 6" of their 26 ILD Talalay is way too soft. I slept on it for two weeks and couldn't take the pain of sinking in so much. Therefore; after sleeping on the couch for a few months, I'm now looking for another mattress… Dunlop 6" core :blush:

I've narrowed my list down to Dunlop retailers in the Greater Toronto Area:
Dormino Organic Beds. Sleeptek and Snugsleep Dunlop latex.
Soma Beds & Sleep products. Sleeptek and Greensleep Dunlop latex.
Grassroots. Sleeptek.
Organic Lifestyle. Obasan Dunlop latex.
Fantastic Sleep Shop. Frank will find out from manufacturer if they use Dunlop or Talalay.
Factory Mattress. Mario Dunlop International? out of New Hampshire.

Will send updates soon.
Last Edit: 30 Sep 2013 13:21 by yoshi.
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In search of latex mattress, max depth of 7" 30 Sep 2013 13:03 #15

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Hi yoshi,

Thanks for the update.

I would also keep in mind that depending on the ILD or firmness level of each that a Talalay layer can also be firmer than Dunlop (Talalay goes up to low 40's in terms of ILD which would be considerably firmer than a soft Dunlop layer).

I'm looking forward to your ongoing feedback.
Factory Mattress. Mario Dunlop International? out of New Hampshire.

Perhaps their supplier is in New Hampshire but I don't know of any "Dunlop International" in NH. Perhaps they mean Latex International in Connecticut who makes Talalay latex?

Phoenix
If you are buying a new mattress, make sure you have read www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...ttress--for-you.html
Last Edit: 30 Sep 2013 13:04 by Phoenix.
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