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Still not sure 23 Mar 2013 02:05 #1

I have been looking, trying, reading and still can't decide. I went to the Clean Bedroom in MA and loved the Green Sleep Dolcezza, king but it is so expensive. My side was soft, med,firm, firm. My husband liked soft, soft, med firm on his side. He is 6' 185 lbs. I am 5'4" 140 lbs. I believe it is all tala way latex. Very comfortable.
I also went to Jordan's furniture and liked their Natura twilight euro top. Comfort layer is 1" tala way latex soft 19ILD and 2" T latex medium 28 ILD. The Support system is 6" talaway and 4 OLB density. natural but not completely organic other materials.
Is Natura a good company?

I briefly talked to Shaun at Sleep ez. His price was better but it is impossible for me to compare apples w apples. I don.t know how his bed feels. I also don't know what the outer materials look like and feel like. the Dolceza and Natura beds look very nice...luxurious feeling.

Would love to find the Green sleep Dolceza somewhere at a lower price but don't think that's possible. any advise for where to go from here?

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Still not sure 23 Mar 2013 13:09 #2

Hi Bobbie,

I went to the Clean Bedroom in MA and loved the Green Sleep Dolcezza, king but it is so expensive. My side was soft, med,firm, firm. My husband liked soft, soft, med firm on his side. He is 6' 185 lbs. I am 5'4" 140 lbs. I believe it is all tala way latex. Very comfortable.


It can be a difficult choice when you have tested and particularly like a premium mattress with more complex layering that isn't easy to "duplicate" but is also not good value based on the design and the materials that are in it (at least by most people's definition of "value")

The Green Sleep Dolezza is actually a Dunlop latex mattress (not Talalay). It is certainly a beautiful mattress that uses high quality materials but is also very costly compared to other mattresses that use similar materials in similar amounts. As you probably know ... it has 4 layers as follows ...

1.5" Dunlop - soft quilted with 3 lbs/sq ft of wool.
3" Dunlop your choice of firmness on each side
3" Dunlop your choice of firmness on each side
2" Dunlop - firm

In addition to the @ $4400 cost for the mattress (queen), if you tested the mattress with the dowel base then this could also be a significant part part of how it felt for you and the mattress would be different on a firm foundation (unless this was what you tested it on). This means that to have the same feel and performance you would need to spend an additional $1600 for the foundation.

Because the layering and construction is fairly complex ... about the closest you could come to "approximating" this mattress with another mattress would be testing other mattresses with 9" - 10" of latex that used similar amounts of wool or with a wool topper or with component mattress with about 8" - 9" of latex in layers that are similar to the bottom 3 layers of the Dolcezza with either a soft 1.5" - 2" topper quilted with wool or a latex topper and a wool topper over that which had a similar amount of wool. Because the ILD's and layer thickness may not be the same and the component mattress would have separate layers rather than being quilted together ... this would be an approximation but it could provide the same pressure relief and support/alignment at a significantly lower cost (in the range of 60% of the Dolcezza or less) even though the more subjective "feel" would be different. I would also make sure you had tested the Dolcezza without the foundation so you had a clear idea whether the additional cost of the foundation or a similar foundation was justified for you.

Post #2 here has more about "matching" another mattress and I would tend to avoid the temptation of using the subjective "feel" of any mattress as a target and use more objective methods of assessing other mattresses against a common set of "standards" such as those in post #46 here .

I also went to Jordan's furniture and liked their Natura twilight euro top. Comfort layer is 1" tala way latex soft 19ILD and 2" T latex medium 28 ILD. The Support system is 6" talaway and 4 OLB density. natural but not completely organic other materials.
Is Natura a good company?


As far as Natura, They are a Canadian manufacturer that makes a wide range of mattresses that tend to use good quality materials. They recently went bankrupt (tried to expand too quickly and be all things to all people) and were purchased by Spring Air Sommex. Most of their mattresses including the one you are looking at (assuming the layering you listed is accurate) tend to use good quality materials but they too are also more costly than many other mattresses that use the same materials in similar amounts. I don't know the specifics of the mattress you are looking at but some of their mattresses also use a fair bit of wool in the quilting. As far as the latex it is in the same range as the Dolcezza at 9" (although it is Talalay which is a different type of latex). For the most part based on the pricing I have seen at most retailers that sell them ... I would also put them in a "good quality but not good value" range.

There are many other options in the Boston area though that are listed in Post #2 here and many of these carry latex options that are more reasonable than the mattresses you have looked at.

There are also online component mattresses available (including SleepEz who you talked to) that have very good value and some of the members here that sell these are listed in post #21 here .

If I was in your shoes I would follow the steps in post #1 here and include some of the other retailers/manufacturers that are close to you in your research and possibly one or more or the online manufacturers as well as an option and value comparison. When you are down to 3 - 5 finalists or so then you can choose between them based on all the tradeoffs that are part of your own personal value equation. Once you have tested some better value choices at other manufacturers or retailers you will also have a much better frame of reference and context to help you decide if the extra cost for similar materials is worth the difference in price for either the Dolcezza or the Natura Twilight.

I know I personally would have a very difficult time justifying that kind of price when there are so many other great options available but in the end that's a decision each person would need to decide for themselves based on what is most important to them.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Still not sure 23 Mar 2013 22:22 #3

Thank you so much for your informative reply. I did not know of the other stores in the Boston area. I will start calling them Monday and go to whoever has mattresses on display. I think I will start with Gardner, Worley Beds, Mattress Makers, Boston Bed, and My Green Mattress....I'll try to choose 3 from that group to visit based on their reply to my questions.

I wish I were brave enough to order on line! I feel that I must try out a mattress first. Also, my husband would prefer delivery and set up from a store. You made some excellent points about the Dolcezza at the Clean Bedroom. I don't yet yet know what foundation is on the one I tried at the store. first of all, I thought it was Talaway and also the foundation they are giving me is the Green Sleep S-50 and is $768.24 (reflects a small discount). Final price inc tax and everything is about $5500.....whereas the Natura is about $3500 plus tax. my husband really likes the Natura. I tried to find the "Twilight" on the Internet but did not see it. is that a legitimate name or something Jordan calls it? Although the Natura is all natural latex, the materials on this particular bed are not organic. the quilt is: wool blend cover, natural cotton fire barrier, 4.2 lbs pure naturaWool, 1" convoluted quilting latex. how does that sound to you? They had higher range bed that was all organic but it had a too soft (for us anyway) pillow top and we found the Natura more comfortable. Another big difference is that the layers are already all put together within its cover and are not changeable as the Dolceza.
Not sure if that makes Abigail differencto us. Again, thank you so much for quick response and I look forward to hearing from you again regarding this email.

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Still not sure 24 Mar 2013 03:45 #4

Hi Bobbie,

I tried to find the "Twilight" on the Internet but did not see it. is that a legitimate name or something Jordan calls it? Although the Natura is all natural latex, the materials on this particular bed are not organic. the quilt is: wool blend cover, natural cotton fire barrier, 4.2 lbs pure naturaWool, 1" convoluted quilting latex. how does that sound to you?


It's not unusual at all that some retailers have their own name for a mattress. Your mattress uses blended latex in the deeper layers (they call this natural and 100% natural latex is called 'all natural) with an inch of Dunlop on top (the convoluted layer) which are good quality materials and your mattress is very similar to either the Natura Bloom plush or the Natura Thrive plush which strangely enough have the same layers. It's possible that the Thrive has an extra inch of Talalay which would make it the same as yours. There is less wool in this than the Dolcezza. You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here ... and as you can see there isn't any such thing as organic Talalay anyway ... only blended or 100% natural.

So overall the Natura uses all very good quality materials ... but it also has a higher cost than many other mattresses that use similar materials (particularly blended talalay in similar amounts).

I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback about what you find at some of the other Boston area manufacturers and retailers.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Still not sure 25 Mar 2013 21:32 #5

Hi,
I am still plugging away with this mattress search. What is very frustrating is all the differing opinions I am getting from different companies....some actually opposite information. The only conclusions I have come to at this point is that I prefer to buy a mattress I have tried vs ordering one on line because I am finding it is virtually impossible to compare apples with apples. Also, I am leaning toward not buying the loose layered latex. My husband and I like a similar feel (medium firm with a soft top layer) and we are both mainly side sleepers. I doubt if we will be shifting the layers around and one company actually said gluing the layers together (with natural simalfa glue) could prevent the layers from breaking down over the years due to shifting, etc. What do you think about that.?

We went through the list of companies in MA and a couple of them were most informative but, again, with differing info. Please comment on the following info:
- John at Worley beds was very knowledgable. These are his suggestions:
He advised against the Natura since they went bankrupt last year and may not stand by their warranty.
Organic and wool materials are expensive and do not increase comfort. Their coverings are a variety of synthetic materials, although I believe he said he would give us organic if we wanted.
He said talaway is more uniform an Dunlop less durable.
This is the biggy....he said there is no such thing as 100% natural latex....some other ingredients go into the process after they get it out of the tree. Blended talaway ( with non natural ingredients) is not harmful and actually has a longer life span than the 100 %natural.
They do have 8", 10", 12" 100% talaway but the other materials on the mattress (topping) are not organic. We will go to his store in Ne Bedford to try out what he has. It's about an hours ride.

Mattress makers in Boston has 100 % talaway 2" 19 ILD, 2" 24 ILD 2" 28 ILD (all layers 100% natural talaway) but the bottom layer is 6" therafoam (poly foam) base. Has quilted cotton poly top. Only gives 10 prorated warranty...whic is much less than others.

Gardner mattress say the only use blended latex products. They use something called Talatec which is blended with synthetics (something like 55 - 45). They say synthetic part helps with durability.

One other company actually said that inner spring mattress will last longer because latex will eventually break down.

Still do not want to pay the Dolcezza price and wonder why it is all Dunlop when supposedly talaway is better?

The Natura is beginning to appeal to me more and more but I am apprehensive to go with a company that went bankrupt.

I am so looking forward to your comments on the conflicting info that I have gleaned so far. Thank you so much for just "being there."

I remain....still undecided and increasingly frustrated....Barbara

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Still not sure 25 Mar 2013 21:56 #6

One company I forgot to mention in my last note of a few minutes ago is Habitat Furnishings. I know I said I don't prefer to buy online but if I do, they were very tempting......especially with their full refund after a year for only a $75 fee. But again....how do you compare apples with apples? When a company says they have 9" 100% talaway (3 layers) wouldn't I have to know the exact ILD figures of each layer....and still it may not be the same as another company that gives same figures....right? What do you think about this company?

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Still not sure 25 Mar 2013 22:08 #7

Hi Bobbie,

Habitat would not be one of the better options I would look at. They use good quality materials (latex) but they are certainly not in the "best value" range either in terms of cost or the options they offer. Have you read post #1 here (which is always the "best" place to start)?

A forum search on Habitat (you can just click this) will bring up much more information about them including some recent comments that may be helpful.

When a company says they have 9" 100% talaway (3 layers) wouldn't I have to know the exact ILD figures of each layer....and still it may not be the same as another company that gives same figures....right? What do you think about this company?


the ILD of latex is only a "comfort spec" and indicates the softness or firmness of the latex ... it has nothing to do with quality or "value" and is irrelevant when making quality or value comparisons. With latex you make "apples to apples" comparisons by knowing the type (Talalay or Dunlop) and blend (NR, SBR, or a blend of each) of the latex. You can read more about the different types of latex in this article and in post #6 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Still not sure 25 Mar 2013 23:26 #8

Did you see the note I sent before the Habitat question? Or did you answer and I missed seeing it somewhere?

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Still not sure 26 Mar 2013 02:52 #9

Hi Bobbie

I missed it ... I'll reply in this post.

What is very frustrating is all the differing opinions I am getting from different companies....some actually opposite information. The only conclusions I have come to at this point is that I prefer to buy a mattress I have tried vs ordering one on line because I am finding it is virtually impossible to compare apples with apples.


This is the norm in the industry and different manufacturers may have very different ideas, beliefs, and opinions ... and in many cases all of them are "partly right" and "partly wrong". These kinds of differences between different people that I respect has often been the 'trigger" behind some of the research on the site. In many cases there is no absolute or definitive answer and working with uncertainty or with "prepronderance of the evidence" is the norm. You can see more about this in post #11 here .

I doubt if we will be shifting the layers around and one company actually said gluing the layers together (with natural simalfa glue) could prevent the layers from breaking down over the years due to shifting, etc. What do you think about that.?


There is probably some truth to this even though the amount of difference would probably be small. Unglued loose layers would be a little softer (and softness/firmness is a factor in durability) and would also have some small degree of abrasion both of which could make some difference in durability but I think any difference would be small and for me personally the benefit of loose layers and the ability of changing one of them if I needed to would outweigh the benefits ... others may think differently.

He advised against the Natura since they went bankrupt last year and may not stand by their warranty.


Naturaworld was purchased by Spring Air Sommex so in theory they would have a warranty and there has apparently been some improvement in their deliveries but a lot of retailers have dropped them because of the many issues they had. Spring Air has also gone bankrupt in the past and there were apparently some warranty claims that were not honored with them as well. Regardless of any of this ... I don't think Natura is the best value anyway.

Organic and wool materials are expensive and do not increase comfort. Their coverings are a variety of synthetic materials, although I believe he said he would give us organic if we wanted.


Organic is a certification which by itself doesn't improve comfort and only certifies how a material was grown and produced. I do believe however that natural fibers are more breathable and moisture wicking and create a better microclimate than most synthetics (although this is a more complex topic and any generalizations would probably find exceptions in the details) and I personally would choose natural fibers or semi-synthetic fibers (such as various forms of rayon or viscose fibers) over synthetics. You can read a little more about this in post #29 here . I don't think organic is as important as the purity and type of fiber.

He said talaway is more uniform an Dunlop less durable.


Talalay (not talaway) is more consistent because of how it is made. I don't believe Dunlop is less durable though and if it is then the point may be moot because as you can see here there are some Dunlop latex mattresses that have lasted more than 40 years. You can read more of my thoughts and some much more detailed information about the different types of latex in post #2 here and post #6 here and in post #6 here . In practical terms it would probably have more to do with the usage and many other factors and i would treat them both as very durable materials and rough "equals".

This is the biggy....he said there is no such thing as 100% natural latex....some other ingredients go into the process after they get it out of the tree. Blended talaway ( with non natural ingredients) is not harmful and actually has a longer life span than the 100 %natural.


When people talk about 100% natural latex what they normally are referring to is that the raw latex used in the foam is 100% natural and doesn't use any synthetic latex (SBR). It's also true that latex foam contains about 90% to 95% latex because of the other materials that are needed to foam and vulcanize and manufacture it so 100% natural latex would mean that all the latex used to make the foam was 100% natural not that the foam only contained latex.

You can also read more about the difference between natural and blended Talalay in post #2 here and in the lower ILD's the blend would likely be more durable than the 100% natural. In the higher ILD's then I don't think there would be a significant difference. They both have the same Oeko-Tex standard 100 class 1 (safe for babies) certification and I would consider them both to be equally "safe".

They use something called Talatec which is blended with synthetics (something like 55 - 45). They say synthetic part helps with durability.


Talatech is just the trade name for the blended Talalay latex made by Latex International . It is 30% natural and 70% synthetic.

One other company actually said that inner spring mattress will last longer because latex will eventually break down.


While a firm latex core will probably last longer than most innersprings ... neither would be the weak link of a mattress. The layers that are most subject to softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it are the upper layers of a mattress whether the support layers are an innerspring, polyfoam, or latex.

Still do not want to pay the Dolcezza price and wonder why it is all Dunlop when supposedly talaway is better?


Talalay isn't better ... it's just different.

The Natura is beginning to appeal to me more and more but I am apprehensive to go with a company that went bankrupt.


They do use mostly good quality materials but they are also not particularly good value compared to many other choices regardless of any warranty issues IMO.

I am so looking forward to your comments on the conflicting info that I have gleaned so far. Thank you so much for just "being there."

I remain....still undecided and increasingly frustrated....Barbara


Hope this helped at least to some degree. While nothing will remove all the uncertainty or conflicting opinions ... this may help to clarify them to some degree and in some cases these types of comparisons aren't that meaningful anyway because all versions of latex are high quality and durable materials regardless of their differences.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Still not sure 26 Mar 2013 20:37 #10

Can you give me any info on the thenaturalbedstore.com? They have a service that is good for someone like me that is afraid to buy a mattress that I haven't tried. After 90 days, you can switch layers if you want to change the feel with no charge at all and free shipping.
They say they use only organic and 100% latex....can choose Dunlop or talalay (they do not do talalay blend) . Their Luxuriant model is 9 " of natural latex. I would probably go with firm Dunlop on bottom, medium talalay in middle and soft talalay on top. Their coverings are organic wool/cotton. Their price for a king is $3895 total (includes slated foundation).

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