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FBM - hopefully more options soon 17 Feb 2014 16:25 #1

Hi all, just thought I would share this since I spoke with someone from FBM (thefoamfactory). They mentioned that due to popular request from people they'll soon have an offering for a more middle of the road density poly foam. As of now most folks using them for DIY mattresses have little to choose from, either the 50ild lux or 36ild hd36 and the next softer foam makes a drastic jump to supersoft poly I believe. I wasn't told specifics for ild, but that it should fall somewhere between the supersoft and memory foams and the hd36. No definite date of availability but it's supposed to be around the time they expand their facility in march.

Maybe not exactly earth shattering news since there's already many suppliers of foam out there but for those on a tighter budget who consider them it might be worth checking back. I'm not promoting them by any means but I know considering a DIY memory foam mattress myself, I planned my base foam, my memory foam and left scratching my head for a transitional layer.

Also asked about their latex (my budget not allowing consideration of the more popular vendors) and far as I was told the density is closer to 5lbs, natural talalay (not blended) - I didn't ask if they were 'seconds' - but 'unofficially' pretty much confirmed it's from Radium. Got the impression they weren't supposed to say but was given hints that "there's really only one major latex supplier in Europe" and when I asked if it was Radium was told "i'm not...sure..but that sounds like that might be right". From the tone of the their voice, it sounded like careful agreement rather than confusion - as if to give me an answer without saying it outright. Why the secrecy who knows, but hopefully gives a bit more insight. I think this has already been suggested or assumed in other posts so maybe it will help back that assumption up.

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FBM - hopefully more options soon 17 Feb 2014 17:42 #2

Hi brass,

You can read more of my thoughts about Foam by Mail (FBM) in post #2 here and post #2 here . I personally wouldn't have a great deal of confidence that what I thought I was buying was what I would actually receive so I personally wouldn't consider them when the accuracy of the description of a product I was important or "mission critical".

Also asked about their latex (my budget not allowing consideration of the more popular vendors) and far as I was told the density is closer to 5lbs, natural talalay (not blended) - I didn't ask if they were 'seconds' - but 'unofficially' pretty much confirmed it's from Radium. Got the impression they weren't supposed to say but was given hints that "there's really only one major latex supplier in Europe" and when I asked if it was Radium was told "i'm not...sure..but that sounds like that might be right". From the tone of the their voice, it sounded like careful agreement rather than confusion - as if to give me an answer without saying it outright. Why the secrecy who knows, but hopefully gives a bit more insight. I think this has already been suggested or assumed in other posts so maybe it will help back that assumption up.


This is typical of their evasiveness and is the "style" of answer they have used for years but the truth is they don't sell Talalay at all.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

FBM - hopefully more options soon 17 Feb 2014 18:02 #3

True, I know they're not well liked. I think it's nice to have more options and choices, not all of us can afford the premium prices of some of the other vendors. It will be nice to at least have more variety from a more budget friendly source. Looking forward to some samples they're sending, even if it's not top notch I'll be able to see if it's good enough. I know after seeing several vids regarding aerus and sensus, I'm not all that impressed. Especially considering the hype. Not saying fxi's stuff isn't good, but like anything else.. I've had Nike air's that didn't last a month and walmart cheapo's that lasted 3yrs for 1/3 the price. Is there information somewhere that their talalay is in fact dunlop? Just curious..I don't know myself, but if it's a European vendor and considering Radium makes natural talalay and is part of Vita out of Canada (a stone's throw from their warehouse in the Detroit area) seems possible enough. You'd think they'd likely use a somewhat nearby manufacturer, which Vita would be. Of course I'm just speculating.

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FBM - hopefully more options soon 17 Feb 2014 18:12 #4

Hi brass,

Is there information somewhere that their talalay is in fact dunlop?


It's in the posts I linked (the second one in particular) :)

I just have little confidence in what they tell their customers based on their history.

While it's always nice to have more options ... if they don't supply what they describe then buying from them can be costly in many ways.

Of course each person may have their own ideas about the importance of receiving what they think they are buying or dealing with a business that is evasive or misinforms their customers but if they've read the posts I linked at least they would be making an "informed" decision.

Sometimes "cheap" can can have a higher cost than people may realize or hope for.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

FBM - hopefully more options soon 17 Feb 2014 19:22 #5

For what it's worth, I did some digging into FBM. I happened to buy some cheap poly foam from them, with all the cautions, and expected if it didn't work out to throw it away so it definitely wasn't mission critical. I didn't evaluate it in any way to determine the accuracy of what was sold vs what I got, but it was easy enough to work with them to make a purchase. I asked no questions which required product knowledge.

I suspect that their supplier is at the below URL. It's a total guess, but it looks like they make several of the foams they sell.
www.rollsheetrubber.com/default.aspx

The company is Fullchance Industrial Co., Ltd. I'm guessing out of China.

From the main page, if you click 'Foam and Sponge Sheet' first, and then in the top right 'Data Download', and third along the left hand side 'SPONGE FOAM RUBBER SHEET' it brings up the data sheets that FBM seems to use. You might not need to click in quite that order, but I had probs with their website on a few occasions. Assuming you've got to the same place as me, you're at:
www.rollsheetrubber.com/html.aspx?id=202

They do say talalay latex, however if you dig into their dedicated latex info, you find a page which doesn't say talalay, nor does say the word dunlop, or specify if blended or not.

That's about as far as I went with it... I can't even tell if Fullchance Industrial is the manufacturor or not.

Anyhow, in case my investigation helps, I've posted it here. Reading the Fullchance website, I wondered if language was a barrier to correct representation of what they're selling.

I wouldn't get their latex, simply for lack of complete info- who knows what it is.

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Last edit: by dn.

FBM - hopefully more options soon 18 Feb 2014 00:18 #6

dn, could be where they get the poly. doubtful that company makes the latex if people have received product with arpico tags on it though. fbm told me they don't produce any of their foams, they simply buy 'loaves' or what have you and cut them to size. (sounds like a keebler factory lol). on the bright side, both fbm and that rollsheetrubber (if they're actually manufacturing the foam) both state certipur compliance. they do look like the same spec sheets though as you said. not being familiar with raw (uncovered) latex myself, i also opted to get some samples from savvyrest so i can compare them to the ones from fbm. if nothing else just out of interest. it can't be determined how it'll feel support wise from a couple cube samples by any means, but at least it'll be something. a visual and texture feel, more than i can glean from google images.

phoenix, you're more than likely right about their latex. i don't have anything vested to defend them, it actually intrigues me sorting out what's what and who's who. to be honest it started out needing a bed, and while i'm waiting for weather to clear (if it ever decides to this year - winter's looking permanent) i would use the delay to check for mattresses. hadn't heard of any of these companies before, just the typical s brands and a couple others. got me thinking geez, how many brands can there be? so i started hunting and digging and making use of trademark directories to sort through it. that's when i realized of all these 30 or so brands, there's only really 4 or 5 major companies with a ton of offshoot brands. made it easier for me to sort through them, so if i wasn't pleased with brand 'x' and could determine all the rest of their offerings by other names i could cull a bunch from my options to narrow it down much easier.

i try to do my part to 'buy american' but it's really kind of out of the public's hands anymore. a ton of 'u.s.' companies have outsourced and moved overseas to various places, strengthening the global market concept to reduce their costs - yet those same companies want our citizens to 'buy american' to fatten their pocketbooks. unfortunately, other than maybe supporting local mom and pop shops, we all need to look out for our interests not those of a company. they're not looking out for the individual. if a 'global market' means there's foreign product for a much better price and roughly equivalent in quality then consumers should benefit from it as well. unless you're living in an amish community chopping your own trees and building your own buggies chances are buying 'american' is netting people a whole lot more foreign product than they could imagine. mattresses are a bit different and its no wonder people are picky. it's extremely personal and where we spend a lot of our time, so i'm not knocking more purist or naturalist approaches at all. there's plenty of chemical contamination right here in my own backyard and so long as it's meeting some sort of standards (like certipur or something) i can't rule out overseas suppliers. considering everything i use (probably including my dentist approved toothbrush) is more than likely sourced or partly made in everywhere from central america, europe, asia.. i think that ship's sailed. :P (i even looked at nestbedding and just couldn't bring myself to consider sleeping on buckwheat hulls as natural and nontoxic as it may be)

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FBM - hopefully more options soon 18 Feb 2014 01:49 #7

Hi brass,

I share many of your thoughts about Chinese or other offshore suppliers and manufacturers and the pros and cons of a developing "global market" (see post #6 here and post #2 here ).

Just for reference ... there are currently over 500 mattress manufacturers in the US with one or more employees and a few hundred more in Canada. The top 16 and more information about their market share and their level of transparency are in this article . There is also more in post #404 here and post #12 here about some of the differences between the major manufacturers and the smaller local and regional manufacturers and better sleep shops that are quietly building and/or selling better quality/value mattresses in most areas of the country (or in some cases online).

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

FBM - hopefully more options soon 21 Feb 2014 17:54 #8

I got so mad at FBM about lying that I filed a complaint with the MI BBB today.

My receipt SAYS Talalay 20 ILD

You can look at one side of it and clearly see the distinctive look of Dunlop latex where it settled/oozed into the holes during the baking process before it got firm enough. It's more solid.

While it's an improvement over my Vitality PLB by itself, which IMO feels like ILD 30+, after 3 nights it does NOT have the feel I wanted and expected from a Talalay 20ILD 3" mattress topper.

But mainly not having the ability to make an INFORMED decision based on honest, ethical business practice....even if it has to be enforced by our government...which it is definitely NOT.

Is there ANYTHING we can do as consumers to make our Congressmen/Senators DO something about this TOTALLY UNREGULATED and often UNETHICAL industry? I am really sick of it! (especially after reading the Essentia thread...more of the same ol' BS!)

Mad in Marietta

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FBM - hopefully more options soon 21 Feb 2014 18:15 #9

You are the master DN (bows down)

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FBM - hopefully more options soon 21 Feb 2014 18:38 #10

@The_brooke,

Do you mean DM (as in dmartin1910h is the master? I don't think I did anything here?

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