>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC:

Stoked I found this site... need help! 06 Mar 2014 10:56 #1

Hi Phoenix,

I stumbled across this site right as I was about to pull the trigger on a certain mattress, and I'm glad I did. The plethora of mattress knowledge and insights in this forum is truly remarkable. I thought Sleep Like the Dead was the wiki for mattresses, but after reading a few of your posts realized that this is the real deal.

So a background on my purchase is that my wife is giving birth in May and asked me to get a new mattress for her "push present". She asked for a memory foam mattress, particularly a Tempur-pedic, mainly because neither of us really knew of other brands. Because I always do research before buying expensive items, I started with a google search and somehow ended up at the SLTD website. After reading reviews and visiting the company websites, I decided "Bed in a Box" Serenity GEL Memory Foam Mattress with Outlast® Technology looked like the winner. My concern about 3lb. density was allayed by their explanation ("new technology"!).

However, once I started reading this site I started feeling very uncomfortable with Bed in a Box. It seems like there are many other better options, and that the foam density claim by BIB is unsubstantiated. Furthermore, I tend to agree with your statement about customer reviews - they tend to be written soon after purchase, for the most part by folks who aren't educated on what makes a mattress good other than "comfort" which may deteriorate with time.

In short, this website is amazing, I have realized I know nothing, and I am hoping you can help me pick the right mattress. My wife and I are both side-sleepers (I'm 225lbs, she's 115 when not pregnant), and we are looking for a Queen size. I sometimes get hot while sleeping, she tends to get cold. We'd like to spend under $2,000 if possible. Do you have any potential suggestions, or some ideas? Thanks in advance for any guidance you may be able to provide!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 06 Mar 2014 13:19 #2

Hi BillT83,

I'm glad you found us ... and thanks for the kind words :)

However, once I started reading this site I started feeling very uncomfortable with Bed in a Box. It seems like there are many other better options, and that the foam density claim by BIB is unsubstantiated. Furthermore, I tend to agree with your statement about customer reviews - they tend to be written soon after purchase, for the most part by folks who aren't educated on what makes a mattress good other than "comfort" which may deteriorate with time.


You've probably read these already but you can read more about Bedinabox and the claims they make in post #2 here and as you mentioned ... I also believe that mattress reviews can be very misleading (see post #13 here ).

In short, this website is amazing, I have realized I know nothing, and I am hoping you can help me pick the right mattress. My wife and I are both side-sleepers (I'm 225lbs, she's 115 when not pregnant), and we are looking for a Queen size. I sometimes get hot while sleeping, she tends to get cold. We'd like to spend under $2,000 if possible. Do you have any potential suggestions, or some ideas? Thanks in advance for any guidance you may be able to provide!


There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend a specific mattress for someone else based on "theory at a distance" or height and weight information but the tutorial post here has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help with "how" to make the best possible choice ... and avoid the worst ones.

It also includes some links to some of the better online choices I'm aware of for those who are comfortable purchasing online and if you let me know your city or zip code I'd also be happy to let you know of any of the better local options or possibilities I'm aware of.

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up choosing ... and of course any questions or comments you may have along the way.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 06 Mar 2014 13:34 #3

Thanks for the info, Phoenix. I'll dig into the referenced tutorial to see what questions I need to ask and what I need to know to determine if I'm speaking to an expert at a store.

My zip code is 10014 in case you know of any local options or possibilities.

Thanks again!

Bill

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 06 Mar 2014 15:03 #4

Hi Bill,

The better options and possibilities I know of in the New York City area are listed in post #2 here and there is also a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions of some of them in post #7 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 10 Mar 2014 12:41 #5

Thanks Phoenix. So far I have visited Dixie Foam and Scott Jordan. I'm going to try to get to some other NYC stores as well (e.g. Clean Bedroom), but here's what my experience has been so far:

Dixie Foam - Friendly and knowledgeable guy named Mark here. We looked at a memory foam (4lb) comfort layer over poly core, which is $800. He said he used to sell 5lb memory foam but that the manufacturer changed the way he built it and he preferred this one which is infused with gel for cooling. Not sure we want to go with memory foam because I'm a hot sleeper and I'm not sure how much gels really mitigate the hot feel of memory foam. They also have a 6-inch all-Talalay (single-layer) mattress and a Talalay topper available. We were thinking of possibly combining the Talalay mattress with the soft Talalay topper, which is priced at $1,500 total. He also said we could potentially use a memory foam topper with the Talalay mattress for same price. He said that this was US latex which is 98% natural (and that no US latex is 100% natural?) which I was a little curious about. Can you validate that statement?

Scott Jordan - very knowledgeable guy named Ian helped us here to pick a mattress that works best for both of us from a support perspective, which seemed to be the Oslo (firm on my side, soft for hers). What was odd to me is the high price ($1,700 plus tax, plus shipping) when there is only two inches of latex and the rest is coils. They were likely high-quality coils, but going into the store I was of the mindset that I didn't want coils. He said that there was no way I could go with an all-Talalay mattress because of my size (6'2, 225lbs), I would sink in deep and not get the support I need. However, again I'm curious because couldn't I just get a firmer Talalay core? Or would I need to go with Dunlop support and Talalay comfort layer? I guess I just hadn't heard that at Dixie so will have to investigate further. Apparently they had a huge 15% sale last month but wouldn't offer any price break (not even waive the delivery charge). I get that I missed the sale so I'm not blaming them, but it's still a tough pill to swallow knowing I could have saved hundreds of dollars had I purchased one month before, and they aren't willing to budge at all. The source of the materials (Holland for latex) and the shipping costs (materials from Europe to California, where mattress is assembled, then shipped to NYC) may be what is driving costs here. I don't know I care THAT much about having European latex, as long as the latex I have is quality. I looked at the "budget" section on this website and I just felt like this is not enough of a value (seems like the $1,200-1,600 is the place to be and I should still be able to get what I want).

Anyway, that's where I am now. Hopefully I can find something quality for a value, and that works for both me and the wife!

Thanks,
Will

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 10 Mar 2014 13:28 #6

BillT83 wrote: Not sure we want to go with memory foam because I'm a hot sleeper and I'm not sure how much gels really mitigate the hot feel of memory foam.


Not much ... initially when you first get in, but once your in and your body warms it up it will hold the heat similar to any other visco foam. I live in MA and don't notice this as much with my mattress as I do with my gel foam pillows where they are bone cold when I first get in and then my head sweats after a bit. Realy cant comment what it will be like during the summer months because I haven't experienced it yet but latex should feel cooler "if" temperature regulation becomes the deal breaker.

BillT83 wrote: They also have a 6-inch all-Talalay (single-layer) mattress and a Talalay topper available. We were thinking of possibly combining the Talalay mattress with the soft Talalay topper, which is priced at $1,500 total. He also said we could potentially use a memory foam topper with the Talalay mattress for same price. He said that this was US latex which is 98% natural (and that no US latex is 100% natural?) which I was a little curious about. Can you validate that statement?



I have a 14" Aloe Alexis with a 7" poly base 3" 28ild blended talay support and 3" 4lb gel memory foam (visco) and that I purchased for 1500 and I love the feel I get from it. I here a lot of people throw around the fact of natural latex vs synthetic, there really isn't much a difference when it comes to durability, actually synthetic gets an edge up in the lower ild's. But for the most part with me natural vs synth was a non factor.

BillT83 wrote: He said that there was no way I could go with an all-Talalay mattress because of my size (6'2, 225lbs), I would sink in deep and not get the support I need. However, again I'm curious because couldn't I just get a firmer Talalay core? Or would I need to go with Dunlop support and Talalay comfort layer? I guess I just hadn't heard that at Dixie so will have to investigate further. (seems like the $1,200-1,600 is the place to be and I should still be able to get what I want).


There are other options for cores other then latex though I cant see why he would discourage you from an all latex bed I have read latex in the 44ild referred to as similar to sleeping on the floor... Poly in th 2lb or greater range would also make a durable base. I have read Pheonix post about coils...just like foams there are good and bad coils and Ill leave that up to phoenix cause that is a entirely different breed of animal. But I would suggest that you look into a mattress that may be a bit thicker overall because of your size and weight.

Mines is 14 inch and im 5'11" and 220 so I have you beat considering your mass is spread out over a greater area then mine and I seem to sleep just fine.

Your fortunate enough to have the ability to try the variety of mattresses that you have had, you need to go back and get specifics on what you feel fits you best in terms of PPP and compare it to some of the web based companies and see what you can find for value online and compare it to your locals. If your looking to spend around the 1500 price range you have some good options, minus sales tax and shipping. Must say though your spot on, happy shopping, and good luck!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by TandL.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 10 Mar 2014 15:30 #7

Hi BillT83,

He said that this was US latex which is 98% natural (and that no US latex is 100% natural?) which I was a little curious about. Can you validate that statement?


It really depends on how you define 100% natural and whether you are talking about 100% of the ingredients in the final product or whether 100% of the latex that is used in the final product is natural (NR) vs synthetic (SBR) or a blend of both.

There are certainly latex cores (both Dunlop and Talalay) that use 100% natural rubber with no synthetic rubber in their formulation and by "convention" these are usually referred to as 100% natural latex meaning that all the rubber that is used to make the foam is natural.

On the other hand ... any foamed rubber core includes other chemicals or substances that are necessary to manufacture the foam (such as foaming agents, curing agents, accelerators, gelling agents, antidegradants, sometimes fillers, and others) so the final percentage of rubber in a 100% natural rubber core (outside of any fillers it may include) are generally in the range of about 90% - 95% or occasionally a little higher.

In other words ... there is 100% natural latex ... and there isn't ... depending on how you look at it :)

I certainly agree with your comments about Mark.

What was odd to me is the high price ($1,700 plus tax, plus shipping) when there is only two inches of latex and the rest is coils. They were likely high-quality coils, but going into the store I was of the mindset that I didn't want coils. He said that there was no way I could go with an all-Talalay mattress because of my size (6'2, 225lbs), I would sink in deep and not get the support I need. However, again I'm curious because couldn't I just get a firmer Talalay core?


The innersprings they use are from Star Springs which are very high quality coils and are made by the same manufacturer that is used by Carpe Diem and Duxiana both of which have mattresses that sell for thousands more and in the case of Hastens in multiple 5 figures (although of course the springs are not the only reason for their prices). They are very high quality coils and they use them in spite of their higher cost because they are so well made and perform very well in the mattress designs they use.

The biggest part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is its "functional value" which means how suitable a mattress is for someone in terms of PPP and higher performance components can be a significant part of this. There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here .

Having said that, I also think highly of ScottJordan and they are a member of this site but differences of opinion are more of the norm in the industry than the exception and I certainly don't agree that a Talalay latex support core is unsuitable for higher weights in the right firmness level and in the right design for those who prefer it over an innerspring. There are certainly people who would strongly prefer an innerspring support core over a latex support core and the same is true the other way around and I would treat this as a preference choice.

I get that I missed the sale so I'm not blaming them, but it's still a tough pill to swallow knowing I could have saved hundreds of dollars had I purchased one month before, and they aren't willing to budge at all.


This would also be the "norm" for most of the better specialty retailers who don't have sales very often at all and when they do they they are often subsidized by the manufacturer and for smaller discounts. The "norm" is that they sell their mattresses for the best price they can every day of the year and don't tend to negotiate or give preferential treatment to consumers who are better negotiators. In many cases ... a retailer who will "negotiate" their prices is more of a warning sign than anything else because it means that they are selling their mattresses for more than they need to in most cases.

The source of the materials (Holland for latex) and the shipping costs (materials from Europe to California, where mattress is assembled, then shipped to NYC) may be what is driving costs here.


Radium Talalay is roughly comparable to it's Latex International equivalent in most cases although the shipping costs for the other components may certainly be part of the price. In general though I would consider the Berkeley Ergonomics mattresses to be much better value than most of the mainstream alternatives.

Anyway, that's where I am now. Hopefully I can find something quality for a value, and that works for both me and the wife!


You're certainly off to a good start .. and thanks for the feedback :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 20 Mar 2014 06:41 #8

Thanks Phoenix & TandL!

After more research we decided to go with a Brooklyn Bedding 14" Aloe Alexis with a 7" poly base and 3" 28ild support layer, and 3" 24ild comfort layer. We decided against the Dixie Foam all-talalay because we wanted a firmer core, against any memory foam because of heat retention, and against the Scott Jordan Oslo because it was more money than we wanted to spend (though it was also very helpful to know that it had high performance pocket coils so we realized it was a value, just not what we wanted).

Mattress Underground as a reference and forum of expertise has been SO helpful. I could ask the BK Bedding folks questions about each layer and based on the answers provided felt very comfortable with my purchase. Also it helped that they had been vetted by MU, and a 5% discount plus two free pillows was a great bonus!

The mattress came yesterday and we slept on it last night for the first time. It was definitely the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on, and my wife agreed. She said it was like sleeping on a cloud. Funny thing is I was worried the mattress may be too firm for her (because I was going with Medium), but it turned out to be perfect.

Thanks again for your guidance and help and for providing all the material to read. I was close to making the wrong purchase prior to stumbling across this site. So glad I found you guys!!

cheers!

Bill

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stoked I found this site... need help! 20 Mar 2014 11:07 #9

Hi BillT83,

It sounds like you did some good testing and research and ended up making a great choice.

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

I hope you have the chance to share your feedback when you've had the chance to sleep on it for a while.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: NikkiTMU
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf