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Memory foam, Magniflex, Essentia and anything in between

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07 Dec 2011 18:38 - 16 Nov 2018 21:37 #1 by EDM
Although it took a while to find this site, I'm glad I did. I never realized that purchasing a mattress would be so difficult with the amount of information, misinformation and sales tactics. This site does an excellent job at providing information in an objective manner.

I have been using memory foam pillows for a number of years with neck support designs but never paid too much attention to how they were made or other details. After having my tonsils removed, my neck was more sensitive while I was recovering. I found my cheap memory foam pillows were uncomfortable. In looking for a new pillow, I came across the Magniflex Wave. The second I put my head on the pillow it just felt right, so I bought it.

Fast forward to today. Given my experience with the pillow, Magniflex was one of the brands I kept in the back of my mind when looking for a mattress. While I do like the product, their site has information and claims that sometimes can be hard to digest. Maybe this is due in part to translating Italian to English. I understand memory foam can never be all-natural, but they do say that their products do not have an off-gassing issues. The model in particular that I like the most is the Duoform XS.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: magniflex.us/duoform_xs.html

Another brand that I am interested in is Essentia . Their products are quite pricey, however. I will say their site puts me off a bit. It's one thing to make claims, and I prefer products to stand on their own merits rather than saying negative things about other products. Also, even though it says its the worlds only natural memory foam, I did confirm with the company that it is in fact latex foam, with similar properties to memory foam. The natural memory foam is I'd say more of a marketing term, which I believe is unfortunate as rather than being associated with memory foam, I would market it is an alternative to memory foam. Essentia is a relatively new company.

I am certainly open to other suggestions and would rather pay for the product than marketing or a brand. I live in Toronto, ON as well. I'm 5'6 and weigh 150 lbs, predominantly a side sleeper. I have tried latex mattresses but find them a bit more bouncy. I like how memory foam feels. Any help sorting some of the details out would be most appreciated.
Last edit: 16 Nov 2018 21:37 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

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08 Dec 2011 01:50 - 05 Jun 2014 12:38 #2 by Phoenix
Hi EDM,

I'll answer your brand questions in this reply and then I'll start a new thread with "Toronto" in the title to give you a list of local manufacturing so that others in the area will have an easier time finding it.

Fast forward to today. Given my experience with the pillow, Magniflex was one of the brands I kept in the back of my mind when looking for a mattress. While I do like the product, their site has information and claims that sometimes can be hard to digest. Maybe this is due in part to translating Italian to English.


Magniflex IMO has some great strengths as well as some weaknesses. Their strength ... like some other European polyfoam and memory foam manufacturers ... is that they are making high quality polyfoam that approaches latex in its qualities. They are also ahead of the curve in using formulations that have less toxic ingredients and less offgassing issues. Much of this is because of their more extensive use of MDI instead of TDI in making their foam. This is part of the reason that there are European polyfoam and memory foam manufacturers who have passed Oeko-Tex 100 standard (safe for babies) while there are few if any North American manufacturers that are listed there. CertiPur is also a good test but it is not as independent or as stringent as Oeko-Tex 100.

Their negative points are first of all the price which I believe is out of what I would consider a "competitive" range given that they are still memory foam and polyfoam and that as you said they make some claims about the proprietary nature of some of their mattresses that are not exclusive to them. In essence ... I believe the quality is there (although I would confirm the density of their foams) ... but the value is suspect. I am also not a fan of long term compression even though it may be necessary when shipping over long distances.

Their foam comes from GommaGomma whose Latexcel and Watergel lines especially seems to "fit the specs" and claims of the magniflex line.

Essentia is another story altogether. They are making claims and misleading people in an effort to differentiate their mattresses from the latex category in which they belong. Slow recovery latex (latex that has memory foam qualities) is made by several companies including Latex International, Radium, Latexco, and even GommaGomma (their latexcel memo foam). To brand their mattress in the memory foam category and to claim that they are pouring their own foam without any validation to me is deceptive. I also believe that their information about other products and materials is misleading even though it may have some basis for fact. It's difficult to imagine that a company would sell a latex mattress while at the same time they denigrate the very material that is the basis for their claim and try to create the impression that their mattress is some kind of memory foam when its not.

I have a great deal of trouble with their ethics and the accuracy of their information. While their materials may be good quality for what they are ... I really have an issue with their marketing methods, their credibility and misleading claims and information, and the exaggerated values of their mattresses. I have also seen how they have defended their methods and claims in many places around the internet over the years (they're not that new) and it just doesn't hold water IMO. As a single example ... why have they never published the name and address of the foam pouring facility they claim to own? On this basis alone I would avoid them until they decide to come clean, promote more truthful information about their mattresses and materials, and make a decision to differentiate themselves in more honest and transparent ways. When so much of what a company says is so misleading and self serving ... it becomes difficult to take seriously or believe even the better information on their site.

In the next post (in a new Toronto thread) I'll include a rather long list of local manufacturing that should help you in your research.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 05 Jun 2014 12:38 by Phoenix.

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08 Dec 2011 13:44 #3 by Anonymous
You may want to check out www.tempflow.com . I just bought a bed from them with no VOC's and made in the U.S. Those were two of the main selling points for me. I have not recieved the bed yet but I can tell you thier customer service has been excellent. I know that they sell an adjustable pillow, not sure if it is through tempflow or thier other divisions relief mart or selectabed. I do know that went I was doing research for the bed I did find some reviews on this adjsutable pillow and people seemed to like it.

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08 Dec 2011 16:36 - 16 Nov 2018 21:48 #4 by Essentia
Hi,

Glad i came across this post :)

You are correct, we are not what the industry considers to be memory foam....a petrochemically derived health hazardous foam with a slow response. We are latex foam manufacturer that has invented a natural latex foam which is a healthy, breathable, natural foam with a slow response. Both have the same pressure relieving benefits. We can play semantics all day but the result will be the same.... Natural vs Synthetic foam with a slow response. Consumers will decide.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: myessentia.com/natural-foam

Here are the facts.
- We have the only natural latex foam with memory foam like properties. The other companies mentioned feel nothing like our product. night and day.
- Our product is VOC free. We worked with the engineering department at UCLA to get this testing done.
- We pour our foam at the HQ address listed on our contact us page.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: myessentia.com/contact.php

I've been with the company for almost 5 years and I see it being poured. We send samples out daily to individuals upon request.

We are as transparent as it comes ;).

If our website is unclear....that's a different story altogether. We'd love some feedback.

If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to contact us.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: myessentia.com/contact.php

Cheers,

Jason
Last edit: 16 Nov 2018 21:48 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error)

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09 Dec 2011 04:22 - 16 Nov 2018 22:09 #5 by Phoenix
Hi Essentia,

Thanks for coming to the forum :)

I'm rather impressed with how you monitor various forums across the web and it would be great if some of the questions that have never been answered ( such as here ) could be answered this time. But first let me put a few data points out there and connect a few dots ... and there are quite a few of them to connect This may be a long post.

The earliest use of the Essentia trademark was in June 8th 2005 and was applied for by IBS International Bedding Systems. IBS was a precursor to 4205081 Canada Inc and Giacomo, Elizabeth, and Victor Dell'Accio were directors. It was abandoned on Aug 25, 2006. Their address was listed as 1597 Cunard Street LAVAL QC H7S 2B4

They also applied for two other trademarks which were Viscotex and Softline and Viscotex was abandoned on August 11, 2006 and softline is still live.

On July 30, 2007, the Essentia trademark was applied for by IBC group which as a matter of interest (not connected) have just gone into chapter 11. The trademark was abandoned on Dec 22nd, 2009. The similarity in name (between International bedding Systems and International Bedding Corp) between companies registering the same trademark is quite a co-incidence.
ADMIN NOTE:Retired Website | Archived Footprint: ibcgroup.com/

Next was on December 6th 2007 when the Essentia trademark was applied for by 6860966 Canada Inc and was registered on Dec 23rd, 2008 and is still live.

6860966 Canada was registered on Nov 1st, 2007 and its directors are Giacomo Dell'Accio and Carmen Carpanzano. Their address is 2760 DANIEL-JOHNSON BLVD, Laval QC (Essentia's contact address).

Prior to IBS's application to register Viscotex, Factory Direct Inc (which is Lady Americana) applied for Viscotex on March 28th, 2005 and it was registered on Sept 6th 2006 and they still own it. Was there a fight for ownership of this trademark? Was this the company where Jack worked previously?

In the patent application submitted by Giacomo Dell'Accio, its clear that the "latex memory foam" is a central core of latex (in its preferred application) surrounded on all sides except the bottom by memory foam. There is also a method of pouring the memory foam around the latex layer in the application.

In the Essentia trademark documents that can be downloaded here ... there is a reference to "previous use" of the trademark with some pictures. One of these pictures includes the term "Energie Bio Lux" in the description.

Bio-lux is a trademark of North Carolina Foam Industries who produces polyurethane foam that uses Bioh polyols to achieve 50% plant based polyol replacement (replacing petrochemical polyols). A search also shows which is a furniture manufacturer which is using a combination of memory foam and latex with such similar wording that it could easily have been the inspiration or even involved in Essentia.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: davidedward.com/website/pdf-downloads/GSA_Pricer_2011.pdf

5750 Rue Maurice-Cullen, Laval, Quebec is an address of record listed on the trademark application and approval for Essentia and for IBS and several other Dell'Accio companies. This is also an address for Elmo Foam Inc. whose main address is 1597, Cunard street, Laval. This is also the address for another company they own called Blu Sleep Products who is making some very nice latex and memory foam and gel pillows and toppers. They also are a licensee to produce the pillows and toppers for T3 recovery products who makes the ironman mattress.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: /elmofoam.com/en/index.shtml

A search on the street view of Essentia's addrress where they are supposedly pouring foam shows the office of InnoVisCo Logistics (Canada) Inc owned by Yves Gagnon who also owns IT logistics beside it. The description of InnoVisCo is "value added warehousing service as a 3PL Logistics provider" and value added includes "pick & pack, light assembly, storage, cross-dock, distribution, grouping, de-consolidation and any other customized service to customer". That sure doesn't sound like foam pouring to me.

Elmo foam is doing some nice fabricating but they also don't seem to be pouring foam. They would however make a good source for the latex inside the "latex memory foam".

So wherever you have seen the foam being poured and whatever it is ... it is clear that it is the stuff (memory foam) that you call "a petrochemically derived health hazardous foam with a slow response." with some of the polyols replaced with plant oils and which is being poured around latex.

The reason for all these dots (and there are many more there to be connected) is not to denigrate your product ... but to show that what you are saying just doesn't ring true. If you have a quality product ... then say what it really is so that people can make meaningful comparisons instead of tearing down other products or materials that you yourself are using in your layers and using partial truths to build a story that isn't all its cracked up to be. There is just too much information on your site that is only partly true or in some cases not true at all.

If you were more transparent and truthful about what you are producing ... then a lot of people who want to like your product and company on closer scrutiny wouldn't have the credibility issues with you that is apparent on many of the forum threads you have participated in around the internet.

None of this has anything to do with what you are producing ... it has only to do with what you are saying on your site and in public forums across the internet.

So what companies did Jack work for during the 12 years he worked in latex?

Phoenix

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Last edit: 16 Nov 2018 22:09 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

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09 Dec 2011 18:28 - 16 Nov 2018 22:26 #6 by Essentia
Loving the interest!

We'll address your questions 1 at a time.

But first...here's a pic of Jack and I today in the factory in front of one of our molds. Jack's holding a sample, I'm holding the injection head :cheer:

Let the answering begin...

Patent
The patent you found was one of many we have. It's the patent on our molded mattresses not our natural memory foam.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: myessentia.com/adhesive-free

Bio-Lux Trademark
Bio is short for Biologique in French which means Organic in English. Since we are in Quebec, we use the word Bio regularly and have named a few products using this word. The word Bio is not uncommon in the bedding world either. North Carolina Foam Industries is just one of many to use it.

Google Maps
Google Street Views are outdated. If you look at almost all of our Essentia store locations (N.Y.C., L.A., Berkeley, Vancouver, Toronto, Laval) on Google Street Views the old tenants signs are still there. lol. We're moving too fast for Google to keep up. Essentia moved into our 2760 boul Daniel Johnson address in Dec 2009. The picture is up on our store location page. You can compare that picture to the video we shot last winter as well. We have customers visit us daily to purchase their Essentia.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: myessentia.com/locations/laval| Archived Footprint 2:myessentia.com/videos/#behind-essentia

Our Product
Our product is a natural latex foam with memory foam like properties. Things progress. It's called innovation. Embrace it. We work with SR&ED which is Scientific Research and Experimental Development Program of Canada for our R&D. We also work closely with the National Research Council of Canada in the continued development of our product. UCLA tested our product. It's Natural and VOC free. You can visit our store in Toronto to try them for yourself. You're also welcome to visit our factory anytime.

Jack won the Ernst & Young Emerging Entrepreneur of the Year award this year. E&Y does do a full financial and company audit including product claims and marketing. Essentia is strategically and financially backed by some of the largest government organizations and financial institutions in Canada. Rest assured, we're solid.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: ey.com/CA/en/About-us/Entrepreneur-Of-The-Year/2010-EOY-winners-Quebec--Link-

I think i've answered all your questions ;). Got some more.... Just let me know.

BTW...we actually sued IBC for using the Essentia trademark in the U.S. and won. See the complaint made on 10/15/08 from a person who purchased their fake Essentia at Sleep Doctor.
Last edit: 16 Nov 2018 22:26 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

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10 Dec 2011 02:14 - 10 Dec 2011 02:32 #7 by Phoenix
Hi Essentia,

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" Carl Sagan.

So in the spirit of finding out how much we are dealing with science fiction and how much with science fact lets see if you are willing to disclose the evidence which you often seem to avoid in your numerous forum discussions over the years.

Bear in mind that I really want to like you and believe your claims ... its just that you make it very difficult, not just here but in your many other efforts in many places.

I realize that many people just accept your claims at face value ... that's the nature of consumers in many cases if the claims are attached to something that "sounds good" and that they want to believe. Claims that are not supported by evidence though are the basis for much of what is wrong with the industry (what I call "stories") and I am hoping that you will differentiate yourself from these dominant players rather than becoming one of them.

1. Thanks for the picture. Are you saying that the factory is in Laval at the 2760 DANIEL-JOHNSON BLVD, Laval QC address and that anyone can come there and see the foam being poured there during business hours?

2.

The patent you found was one of many we have. It's the patent on our molded mattresses not our natural memory foam.


I don't know of any other patents owned by Giacomo Dell'Accio or Essentia. Since patents are a matter of public record please let me know where I can find them or the patent numbers as I would love to read them. The one I cited makes numerous mentions of using polyurethane memory foam in the foam material and latex in the core. This would be a step towards transparency as it would back up your claim of having numerous patents and that the material itself (rather than just the layering and foam surround) is patented.

3.

Bio is short for Biologique in French which means Organic in English. Since we are in Quebec, we use the word Bio regularly and have named a few products using this word. The word Bio is not uncommon in the bedding world either. North Carolina Foam Industries is just one of many to use it.


This is an example of the types of partial answers that have created more distrust than trust and they are somewhat condescending. We are talking about the use of "Bio Lux" not just Bio (I'm Canadian so not a stranger to French). It's in the documents in the context of a description of your foam so this would likely be a trademark infringement unless you were actually using Bio Lux ... which is why I asked. I am well aware that no trademark can be issued for common descriptive words like "bio".

4.

Google Street Views are outdated.


I realize this and I'm glad in this case that they are as they allowed me to connect some data points between Essentia and other companies and connections including at least one of your suppliers. This wasn't to say that Essentia didn't exist at your main office address ... but to show the connections between other previous addresses and other companies that are clearly "connected" to Essentia and that provide the ability to connect more dots.

These connections also make it easier to "source" where some materials and/or the research behind them may be coming from or what they are because if your suppliers owned by a family member (sister) are sourcing directly or indirectly through lets say GommaGomma in "Northern Italy" which IMO they very well could be (I'll be happy to connect more dots here as well but shouldn't have to) ... then this too would be part of transparency. I actually like GommaGomma and for me this would make your claims a little more believable if you were operating under a license or using materials based on research originating from them. Did Jacks father ever work for them?

5.

Things progress. It's called innovation. Embrace it.


This seems to have become your mantra over the years. Once again it boils down to claims that are not validated or in some cases even true (such as your use of the "organic" word). Where is your USDA organic certification for your mattress or even your foam cores (all I see is the GOTS certified cover)? See what I'm getting at? Does this mean that anyone with a GOTS cover can claim their mattress is organic?

To "embrace" this type of innovation which is based on a claim only without any substance behind it would only be embracing marketing spin. I'd love to embrace it ... if the facts behind the claims could be verified. Who you work with has nothing to do with what you are producing. The research organizations you work with could be funding you to make better polyurethane for all I know. Sealy and Tempurpedic also have huge R&D budgets but that says nothing about what is in their mattresses or their value.

If UCLA tested your mattresses ... lets see the results. All you say is "Tests confirmed that Essentia natural memory foam show trace VOC's (volatile organic compounds), comparable to Latex certified by the Oek Tex 100 standard (Below 0.001PPM - parts per million)." and you must know that the OekoTex 100 standard tests for more than just total VOC's. This is anything but transparent and a single "test result" isn't "comparable" to OekoTex 100.

6.

Jack won the Ernst & Young Emerging Entrepreneur of the Year award this year.


That's great ... and his entrepreneurial skills are not in question here ... only what is in your mattress and what you are claiming or stating on your website. Same goes for any financial audits of your company by E&Y. I had already assumed financial backing including probable government incentives but this isn't necessarily a good thing as I'm not a fan of governments backing private enterprise. There are some very large companies that could make the same claim (about being backed and audited) but they are controlled by bean counters not mattress people ... and their product, pricing, and marketing efforts show it.

Talking about financial backing ... are you still connected with W. Brett Wilson or has he withdrawn (I don't see you on his website)?

7.

You can visit our store in Toronto to try them for yourself


When I go next to Vancouver I hope to do this. But I'm also a sucker for nice soft mattresses with huge thick layers of cheap polyfoam ... in the showroom anyway (I shouldn't admit to this but I even liked the thickest version of a Serta Donald Trump I tried at least for a minute or two) ... but that doesn't mean I would buy one :). I also hope to take a look at the law tags but it would be nice if you could post pictures of them since I won't be there for some time.

So again ... I am looking for extraordinary (even ordinary would be nice) evidence to back up extraordinary claims and the very high prices that are based on them. All the rest is nice to know but really doesn't hit the mark and is more about deflection than answering questions or transparency. Once you become more transparent about your claims and materials (and hopefully correct the misleading or untrue statements and "spin" on your website) ... It will be a lot easier to like your mattress and better appreciate the company and the integrity and people behind it.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 10 Dec 2011 02:32 by Phoenix.

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19 Feb 2017 15:39 #8 by anhzan
Hello Phoenix,

Could you please post a link to the Toronto thread that you mentioned. I am looking for a latex mattress brand that you have found to be reputable.

Thanks,

anhzan

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19 Feb 2017 17:55 - 16 Nov 2018 22:12 #9 by Phoenix
Hi anhzan,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent ( see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around Toronto are listed here .

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 16 Nov 2018 22:12 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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