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Berkeley Ergonomics mattress

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20 Jul 2016 13:24 - 20 Jul 2016 13:25 #1 by Taylorajay
I made the mistake of believing a sales man, and buying without researching.

After I got my Berkeley Ergonomics mattress, I did a little research and realized almost everything I was told was not true.

I was told the mattress was organic. Turns out it's not. The mattress cover isn't organic, the latex isn't organic, there's a bunch of synthetic Polypropylene that covers all the springs, and there are chemicals in the latex.

So much for it being organic or "all natural".

Just want to remind everyone to research before buying..
Last edit: 20 Jul 2016 13:25 by Taylorajay.
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20 Jul 2016 15:18 - 29 Nov 2018 20:35 #2 by Phoenix
Hi Taylorajay,

I would agree with you that it's a good idea to do some research before you buy any mattress and it's unfortunate that you didn't read their website before you made your purchase.

I think highly of Berkeley Ergonomics and they certainly make some very high quality mattresses. While I wasn't part of your conversation so I don't know what any specific salesperson may have told you ... I don't know of any Berkeley Ergonomics dealers that make any claims about their mattresses being certified organic and they provide accurate information about all the materials and components in their mattresses so it would have been very easy to confirm the information that they provided just by reading their website. Their covers actually do use certified organic cotton and certified organic wool but the latex is 100% natural Talalay (there isn't any Talalay latex that has an organic certification) and of course the steel in their innersprings doesn't have an organic certification either. As you mentioned the only synthetic material in their mattresses is the polypropylene they use to cover the pocket coils but it's also a completely "safe" material.

Most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress or materials are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

There have been some recent and unfounded criticisms about BE by someone that is on some kind of "vendetta" that is almost certainly from a competitor that is very misleading and include some comments that are very similar to yours so hopefully your comments aren't being influenced by some very misleading online information.

Phoenix



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Last edit: 29 Nov 2018 20:35 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status
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24 Jul 2016 14:24 - 24 Jul 2016 14:26 #3 by Taylorajay
Yes, I should have confirmed with berkeley ergo all I had been told. Had I done so, I would have realized that what the sales man told me was untrue. That is why I made my post...to just remind people to double check what you are told by sales people.

Yes, I have seen the criticism that you mentioned. Do you mean the web site about berkeley? Do you have a few minutes where you can review the site and tell me what parts are untrue (unfounded & misleading). I would love to learn I was not mislead but I am pretty sure I was. The site is www.mymattressreview-berkeley.com in case you have not seen it. The pages that gave me the most information were the home page and the false organic claims page. There are berkeley dealers that advertise 'organic mattress'. You can see them on the site.

I spoke to berkeley ergo and they did clarify that their mattresess are not organic and either is their cover. I do not have a problem with berkeley, they did not mislead me the sales man did.
Last edit: 24 Jul 2016 14:26 by Taylorajay.
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24 Jul 2016 15:04 - 29 Nov 2018 20:14 #4 by Phoenix
Hi Taylorajay,

Yes, I should have confirmed with berkeley ergo all I had been told. Had I done so, I would have realized that what the sales man told me was untrue. That is why I made my post...to just remind people to double check what you are told by sales people.


I agree that's a good idea with any mattress although it can take some research to know what claims need to be verified or which questions to ask.

Yes, I have seen the criticism that you mentioned. Do you mean the web site about berkeley?


I was referring to comments made about Berkeley Ergonomics that I've seen in a number of places around the internet (not just one) that were clearly made by someone that was on a personal vendetta against Berkeley Ergonomics and for the most part were exaggerated, misleading, and overly critical. To me they appeared to be from a competitor that had an agenda to harm the reputation of a good manufacturer. My guess is that the website you referred to was probably from the same person although I don't know that for certain. They certainly seem to have a "thing" against polypropylene and against BE.

Do you have a few minutes where you can review the site and tell me what parts are untrue (unfounded & misleading).


While I certainly don't have the time to go through it all ... I don't mind making some comments about a few of the statements they make.

The mattresses are not "organic mattresses".


They don't make any claims about having an organic mattress and this implies that they do. Someone that doesn't know this and only reads the website you linked could easily think that BE is claiming to have an organic mattress and would already be predisposed towards having a negative opinion about them.

The exterior cover is not an "organic cover".


The cover uses certified organic cotton and certified organic wool so the raw materials themselves have an organic certification even though the cover itself isn't certified organic as a final product after manufacturing. For 99% of consumers knowing that the "ingredients" were certified organic would be enough and it's very unlikely that they would even be aware that there are different levels of organic certifications ... or even care.

The coil model contains Polypropylene.


As I mentioned they seem to have something against polypropylene which is a completely safe material and is used in the fabric that encases the pocket coils. To me this would be a non issue although this is much of the basis for their criticisms. They have always been open about this for those customers that are concerned enough to ask about the type of fabric that covers the coils (see post #4 here as an example).

The latex is not organic, and so much more...


They have never claimed that it was. There is no Talalay latex that has an organic certification but it does have an Oeko-tex certification and a C2C certification as well (see post #2 here ). Again this is very misleading because an unwary consumer may believe that they are claiming that their latex is organic when they aren't.

Turns out that the Berkeley Ergonomics coil mattresses contain a LOT of synthetic Polypropylene.

The Polypropylene covers all the springs in the mattress. It is not a small amount that could be missed.


This is a complete exaggeration because the fabric that covers the springs is a very small percentage of the whole mattress.

The latex in my Berkeley Ergo coil mattress also contains 23 chemicals. 22 of the chemicals deemed "moderately problematic, but acceptable for use", and one chemical deemed "unknown". You can view the

2-page Material Health Certificate for the latex used in my bed here.


This is also completely misleading since none of the chemicals are harmful and their comments come from a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of the C2C certification (which is most likely done on purpose so that once again the people that read their site are predisposed to think negatively about BE). Radium that makes their Talalay latex deserves credit for the time and effort it took to achieve the C2C certification and not criticism. You can read much more about this in post #13 here and the rest of the topic which discussed this extensively.

I could go on but it's really not worth it since it's clear to me that they are just "out to get" Berkeley Ergonomics for their own personal reasons and agenda and their website and the similar comments they have made around the web have very little credibility.

Berkeley Ergonomics is among the most transparent manufacturers in the industry and it's a shame that a single person with an obvious agenda and that is probably a competitor can "spray" unfounded criticisms all over the web and have that big an impact on the well deserved reputation of a good quality and reputable manufacturer that they even merit a reply in the BE Q&A section on their site (see the "what about the bad reviews" section).

Phoenix

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Last edit: 29 Nov 2018 20:14 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status
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25 Jul 2016 13:24 - 29 Nov 2018 20:18 #5 by Taylorajay
thanks for taking the time to check it out. It was not my intention to make this into a big issue.

Just to put a final pin in it though, I think everything is based on the fact that the Berkeley dealers ARE making false organic mattress claims. I think if the dealers were not making false “organic mattress” claims, there would be nothing for anyone to complain about. Naturally I have sympathy for anyone who was told a mattress was organic, when its not, because it happened to me.

As proof, here are some of the false organic mattress claims from some Berkeley Ergonomic dealers
In case the link doesn’t work, I grabbed a few off the site and wi'll post a few here..
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: mymattressreview-berkeley.com/false-organic-claims.html


Berkeley advised me that their cover is not organic but it is “made with” organic cotton, so that is the organic cover issue.

Again, I have no beef with Berkeley. It’s the Berkeley Ergo sales person who mislead to me.

Thank you for taking time with me. I won't bug you anymore. I feel a bit better after learning from you but I definetly was mislead buy a berkeley ergonomics sales person.
Last edit: 29 Nov 2018 20:18 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error)
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25 Jul 2016 14:59 - 25 Jul 2016 15:53 #6 by Phoenix
Hi Taylorajay,

Just to put a final pin in it though, I think everything is based on the fact that the Berkeley dealers ARE making false organic mattress claims. I think if the dealers were not making false “organic mattress” claims, there would be nothing for anyone to complain about. Naturally I have sympathy for anyone who was told a mattress was organic, when its not, because it happened to me.


I probably look at things a little bit differently than you do based on a broader view of the many different parts of the industry "as a whole".

While I completely agree that there is a great deal of confusing or misinformation information about "organic" materials in the industry and on the web ... both in terms of the potential benefits of organic materials (which are often exaggerated or misrepresented as somehow meaning "safe") and in terms of what "organic" actually means ... I also differentiate between "organic" used as a "soft" marketing term in combination with accurate descriptions of the materials in a mattress or topper (including the materials that aren't certified organic) and "certified organic" used as a specific description of a mattress or a material.

Asking the right questions or asking about which specific materials in a mattress are certified organic would generally "cut through" any confusion but most consumers don't know what they don't know about organic materials and certifications and in many cases have often come to believe that organic means something other than what it does because different "definitions" of "organic" can be confusing to say the least.

An analogy would be buying food from a local farm that grows their food organically but haven't actually gone through the expense of the certification process that allows them to label their food "certified organic" (with the additional cost passed on to consumers with no corresponding benefit for the higher price). Most consumers would be satisfied that the food they buy is "organic enough" even though an organic certification with food is even more important and meaningful than an organic certification with mattress materials.

The different levels of organic certifications can also be so confusing that many salespeople in the industry also aren't fully informed about "organic" terminology either and provide information to their customers that they have come to believe or have been told by what they believe to be a reliable source even though it's not "technically" correct. This also doesn't mean that they are lying ... only that they probably aren't fully informed about what really is organic and what isn't. In some cases some of the different definitions can come down to "splitting hairs".

On the other hand ... the benefits of "organic" certifications are also greatly exaggerated by some parts of the industry and are often used as a justification for charging prices that are much higher than other similar products and in some cases can approach price gouging or implying that organic mattresses are somehow "safer" than other materials that don't have an organic certification which of course isn't necessarily the case. In other words there is a great deal of misinformation and somewhat "questionable" practices on all sides of the organic part of the industry.

Overall ... while I would like to see more consistency in the industry in terms of terminology such as organic, green, natural, "chemical free" and many other terms that can be confusing and misleading so that there is more consistent and accurate information throughout the industry ... in many cases the differences between different descriptions and definitions are blurred or fuzzy and I personally don't have a significant issue with a retailer that uses "soft" organic descriptions as long as they don't blatantly and purposefully misrepresent what they are selling in an attempt to mislead and they also accurately describe the specific materials in their mattresses, can tell you which components have an organic certification and which ones don't, and that don't describe a specific material or component in a product as having an organic certification when it doesn't (and they should be able to provide you with the actual certification for any specific component that they are saying is certified organic). In other words I differentiate between "blatant" and "purposeful" misrepresentation and information that isn't completely or technically accurate but is more "benign".

It's especially unfortunate IMO when manufacturers or retailers that are more transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses than 90% or more of the industry and really do try and provide more accurate and meaningful information about their products are specifically "targeted" (often by their competition) when there are so many other misrepresentations in the industry that are much more misleading and blatant.

If every more "benign" or slightly inaccurate claim in the industry was subject to the type of unfair (IMO) scrutiny, criticism, and "tone" that BE has been subject to as a result of a single person's opinions that go "viral" or has decided to go to "war" with a company based on their own hidden agenda then an increasing number of manufacturers that sell good quality/value and "safe" mattresses that may even contain some organic materials may become even less willing to provide any meaningful information at all because they would question the benefits of doing so when even minor issues or inconsistencies in their descriptions or efforts to educate their customers or a mistake made by a single salesperson can have such a harmful effect on a reputation and business that they have built over the course of many years.

I appreciate and respect those manufacturers and retailers that "do their best" to provide meaningful and accurate information about their products even if they aren't always 100% accurate or if some of the information they provide may be somewhat unclear or subject to misunderstanding because they are so uncommon in the industry as a whole but I also realize that I may be a little more "tolerant" than some because I take a much broader view of the industry and am more focused on more serious misrepresentations or misinformation and I also realize that "marketing considerations" will also play a role to some degree if any business wants to succeed in a very tough industry. I also realize that not everyone may agree with my opinions :)

Phoenix

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Last edit: 25 Jul 2016 15:53 by Phoenix.
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26 Jul 2016 08:35 #7 by SleeplessinDallas
We did have a Berkeley Ergonomics mattress for a while and I did find it to be of very good quality, NOT that I am an expert. But, from everything I could research, they are a very good quality mattress.

For us it just came down to feel and while it was not *uncomfortable* per our own preferences, it was also not what we thought to be *comfortable*. I really never could put my finger on this, except that from what I've learned, I don't think I personally like latex as the top layer, I like a little more of a memory foam feel on top with latex as the next layer down to still provide good support & bounce. But, that is just my personal preference. Otherwise, I thought the BE mattress was a very well constructed mattress and I liked that you could unzip and see everything inside as well.
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27 Jul 2016 16:24 #8 by TMASC
Replied by TMASC on topic Berkeley Ergonomics mattress
Been selling Berkeley Ergonomics mattresses for a few years now, the mattresses have performed tremendously, no issues with anything breaking down prematurely. ALL materials in the mattresses are tested by 3rd party labs for safety, some materials do have organic certificates however I find this to be less important than safety given you can also buy organic cigars. They are very comfortable and very well priced for a high performance almost completely natural mattress, minus the polypropylene fabric the coils are wrapped in which is used for performance reasons (durability, less absorbent than cotton, dries faster).

The tactics used by this individual to intentionally smear and cause as much damage to a company that actually deserves credit for being a shining example of a high quality transparent manufacturer is just despicable.

Although to be fair I also think that many of the components in the mattresses also contain trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide which is known to kill people if you inhale it into your lungs.















^^^ That was sarcasm, lest I be contributing to the fear mongering.
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27 Jul 2016 16:46 - 27 Jul 2016 16:51 #9 by Phoenix
Hi daniel@tmasc.ca,

The tactics used by this individual to intentionally smear and cause as much damage to a company that actually deserves credit for being a shining example of a high quality transparent manufacturer is just despicable.


Needless to say ... I couldn't agree with you more!

Although to be fair I also think that many of the components in the mattresses also contain trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide which is known to kill people if you inhale it into your lungs.

^^^ That was sarcasm, lest I be contributing to the fear mongering.


Ever since I've read this site I've been making a point of drinking 8 glasses of water every day to help my body flush this dangerous chemical out of my system :)

Phoenix

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Last edit: 27 Jul 2016 16:51 by Phoenix.
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28 Jul 2016 10:52 #10 by MattressToGo
We can only all hope for a day that DHMO is eliminated from all mattress products. Such a powerful chemical, universal solvent. B)

Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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