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normal Latex Mattress

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03 Oct 2011 22:24 #16 by golson22m

Phoenix: I thnk we have hit a bit of a dead-end! Bennington Furniture does not have the "mattress 1st" in stock. Burlington Bedrooms can get the Innomax but does not have any in the showroom. And Sleepys lost their inventiry in Tropical Storm Irene and just reopned today but oly has a line called, "Dr. Breus" in stock. They are unsure of when they will have the Pure Latex Bliss again. Godnick's Furniture got back to me on the Englander and said that the quiltng is 1 1/2 inches. They had one next to the one we tried with only a half inch, but it wasn't very soft or comfrotable. How do we find a latex that has a soft top that is not polyfoam?

I feel like we took three steps backwards today.

Thank you, Glenn

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03 Oct 2011 23:55 #17 by Phoenix

Hi Golson22,

Ouch ... that's not good news.

The first thing I should mention is that no matter what they say ... the Dr Breus is overpriced and is not what could reasonably be called a latex mattress. A quick look at the law tag will show the amount of latex that is in each model (and this is by weight and because latex is heavier than other foams it actually "overstates" the amount of latex in terms of thickness) is not so great. The Dr Breus "story" is what you are paying for with this mattress ... not the materials which are much cheaper and lower quality than even a sale price that has been bargained down would indicate. It has more polyfoam than latex. I'm not saying its a "bad" mattress (although I wouldn't call it great either) ... only that it is poor value.

The first thing I would do is to test certain mattresses for pressure relief that are mostly latex in the comfort layers or memory foam in the comfort layers to get a good sense of the type, softness, and thickness of the comfort layer you need. Test for pressure relief on your side (the position where pressure relief is most important) and while you are completely relaxed try to sense any pressure points on our hips and shoulders. Move a little bit with your hips and shoulders or turn to your back and then to your side again to sense if you can feel a firmer layer underneath the comfort layer that is uncomfortable when you move or if the transition into the firmer layers is more gradual.

Next you want to test the models which worked for pressure relief to check on alignment. This is about making sure your hips don't sink down too far, that your shoulders sink in far enough, and that there are no gaps under your waist/lumbar (it should not be easy to slide your hand between you and the mattress). On your side your spine should be straight, on your back and stomach it's especially important to make sure that your pelvic area isn't sinking down too far and that your spine is in its natural "S" curve and there are no obvious "out of alignment" areas (hips too low or shoulders too high).

When you have tested for pressure relief and alignment and narrowed down your choices to a few ... then its time to add in your preferences (such as how good it "feels" overall). Finally you can compare the value of your final choices in terms of the quality of materials (latex is more expensive than quality memory foam which is more expensive than polyfoam) and their durability and other choices like the ticking and the quilting to get a sense of which has better value.

Testing specifically for pressure relief (on your side while completely relaxed for several minutes) and for alignment in all your sleeping positions (again while completely relaxed so the mattress is holding you up not your muscles) will give you a much more accurate sense of what you need than the overall "comfort" of a mattresses which is usually an initial subjective impression and will change over time when you sleep on it for a while.

While its always nice to be able to test specifically with the layers and materials you want to choose ... any testing will help in terms of pointing in directions. If you have a good choice locally that also has good value ... then a local purchase is possible. If you found a good choice locally but the value is not so good ... then this mattress and your testing can serve as a rough blueprint for an online purchase which will have much better value.

To test memory foam mattresses ... I would use the iComforts and the Tempurpedic cloud and contour lines. Remember you are looking for which ones are OK for pressure relief and alignment, not an "overall feel". To test for latex ... I would use the Natura models and the Englander models (again testing for pressure relief and alignment). Which models don't provide good pressure relief and alignment is just as important to know as which ones do as all of this points to what is best for you.

As long as the mattresses you are testing has a layer by layer description (either from the store or available online if they don't have it or won't give it to you) which these ones do, then all your pressure relief and alignment feedback will be valuable.

After this a much clearer picture will emerge of the layering that works best for you and then it's much easier to make final decisions based on subjective factors and value ... or to make an online purchase that "fits" your blueprint.

Phoenix


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21 Oct 2011 16:12 #18 by golson22m

We have spent some more time looking, although not a lot of options near us. Here is what we have found:

NaturaPedic Sensation (my wife and I both liked this a lot... $2,000)

The eco-friendly Sensation Mattress gently echoes your unique curves to reduce late night tossing and turning. The plant-based memory foam and 3-zone Talalay latex topper provides targeted shoulder, hips and thigh support to ease the high tension areas of your body, while the plush Dunlop latex core ensures whole body comfort. With a luscious helping of cozy NaturaWool™ to regulate temperature by wicking away moisture, you’ll stay dry and cozy throughout the night. A fresh, satiny soft and off-gassing free organic cotton blend ticking tops up the comfort. Healthy indulgence that you’ll feel good about.

Organic cotton blend ticking

Furnishes sumptuous comfort that’s natural, breathable and healthy

4.2 lbs Pure NaturaWool™

Reduces tossing and turning from temperature fluctuations
Improves circulation by buffering pressure points

Natural cotton fire barrier

Meets and exceeds all Canadian & US flammability standards

1” Plant-based foam

Provides cushioning support across the whole mattress surface

3” Plant-based memory foam

Absorbs motion transfer so couples can sleep together undisturbed
Reduces exposure to dust-mites and other allergens

2” 3-Zoned Talalay latex (blended)

Delivers targeted shoulder, hips, and thigh support
Absorbs motion transfer so couples can sleep together undisturbed
Reduces exposure to dust-mites and other allergens

4” All-natural Talalay latex

Unifies consistent feel across the whole body

Englander Daisy Pillow Top (both liked best of Englanders...$1700)

Cover: Aloe Vera

Quilting: 1.5" Multi-Needle Quilted to a triple layer of soy-based ultra foam plus firesafe fibers

Pillow Top: 1" pure, natural rubber latex

Core: 4" pure, natral rubber latex core laminated to a 6" high-density soy-based perma-support base

Warranty: AA-20 year non-pro-rated


Englander Liberty ($1400)

Cover: Aloe Vera

Quilting: 1" Multi-Needle Quilted to a triple layer of soy-based ultra foam plus firesafe fibers

Core: 4" pure, natral rubber latex core laminated to a 6" high-density soy-based perma-support base

Warranty: AA-20 year non-pro-rated


Englander Memory Foam Village ($1000)

Cover: Lyocell Double Knit Cover

Core: 3" of soy-based Visco elastic memory foam laminated to a high-density eco-friendly perma-support foam base

Warranty: A-15 year non-pro-rated


Englander Malibu Foam Boxtop ( $1200)

Quilting: Multi-Needle Quilted to a triple layer of bio-based ultra foam plus firesafe fibers

Boxtop: Bio-based polyfoam

Build Up: Netting
Bio-based polyfoam
Bio-based polyfoam
Bio-based polyfoam
Bio-based polyfoam

Unit: 660 body print 3-zone
Marshall coil unit with special steel edge supports

Warranty: A - 15 year non-prorated


This is a much harder process than I had anticipated! Thank you for all of your help!
Glenn

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21 Oct 2011 21:21 - 21 Oct 2011 21:22 #19 by Phoenix

Hi Golson22m,

I can see the "feel" that you are going for. It's interesting that I also liked the feel of "hybrid" comfort layers (something over memory foam over latex). The thick wool and the polyfoam (what they call plant-based foam) would separate you from the memory foam and result in less heat on the memory foam and less sinking and less of a "quicksand" feeling in the memory foam. It would also make moving on the mattress less "restrictive". At the same time it would allow for sinking in as the memory foam warmed up without being too mushy or too much "in" the mattress. The zoned latex under it would also help with this. The Natura uses higher quality materials and would have much better value than any of the iComforts IMO at the price you quoted. I'm not sure what size you are looking at but if the $2000 is for a Queen size Sensation then this would represent good value compared to what Natura normally sells for.

The Natura would also be better value than the Englander which has poly over less expensive (but still high quality) Dunlop latex over polyfoam. Wool is also more expensive than polyfoam in a quilting and also is more breathable.

The "down" side to the Natura is shared with other memory foam mattresses which is that over the course of the night you can sink more deeply into the memory foam although with the wool and polyfoam in it which separates your body heat from the memory foam ... this would not happen as much. The other down side to memory foam is that it will tend to soften at first fairly quickly (over the first few weeks) and then more gradually. This will be offset to some degree with the compacting of the wool over time (although the wool in the Natura is thicker and quilted in a way that it is both "fluffier" and more "pre-compacted" in a sense).

So overall it looks like you are going for some firmness on top without a "mushy" or "trapped" feeling but with enough sinking in and cradling that you get pressure relief and with enough "energy absorption" that motion is isolated

It would also help if you let me know which of the iComfort models was your favorite and where it fit in the order of things (I'm assuming that you listed the mattresses in your last post in order of best to worst) and what you liked and didn't like in the mattresses you listed. From there it would be easier to see the patterns in your "favorite" choices.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 21 Oct 2011 21:22 by Phoenix.

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21 Oct 2011 23:22 #20 by golson22m

Thank you. The iComfort we liked was the Indigo Point which would actually be a little more than the Natura. In terms of comfort, the Natura, iComfort and Englander Daisy are very close. An obvious advantage of the Englander is that we could get a king for still less than the queens size Natura or iComfort. The Englander also has a better warranty and comfort return policy. However, overall we do like the feel of the Natura the best. Of course it is very hard to get a sense of the sinking in without spending a night on it. Vermont Bedrooms (the store with the Natura) charges $50 to get a 30 day comfort guarantee.

Thanks again!
Glenn

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22 Oct 2011 03:06 - 09 Nov 2018 01:08 #21 by Phoenix

Hi Glen,

The Indigo Point is actually a Simmons Comfor Pedic loft mattress rather than a Serta iComfort ... however they certainly have some similarities. In particular, the Simmons is using 3.5 lb memory foam (low quality and subject to early breakdown) and also uses a very soft polyfoam support layer (24 ILD) which is much softer than a typical support layer which means that it may not do a great job keeping you in alignment. They do this because low density memory foam allows you to feel the support layers underneath it much more easily and if they used a typical support layer firmness under this ... the mattress may feel too firm. They do put a gel layer under the hips to help keep them up but this still wouldn't make up for the deficiencies in the mattress IMO. I would probably buy a Costco mattress at half the price over this one.

That leaves you with the Natura and the Englander. Between the two of these ... the Natura is IMO the better value only because the price you were quoted is lower than the norm.

The Natura has memory foam so you will sink "in" to the mattress more although this would be lessened by the layer of wool and polyfoam over the memory foam so it will feel firmer and the sinking in will take more time than if you were lying directly on the memory foam itself. The wool will also create a very breathable surface layer. The memory foam will soften over time though and you will sink more deeply into it when this happens as it is not as durable as latex. My biggest concern with this mattress would be alignment.

The Englander would have a firmer "on" the mattress feel as it has the quilted polyfoam (the quilting makes the polyfoam firmer) over the relatively softer (but firmer than memory foam) Dunlop latex over a firmer Dunlop core (which is all over a firmer polyfoam support base). This construction wouldn't soften over time as much as the Natura but it also may not conform as well with your side sleeping positions because of the quilted polyfoam over the Dunlop latex in the comfort layer. My biggest concern with this mattress would be pressure relief.

If I was in your shoes ... I would test each of these two mattresses specifically for pressure relief (with at least 10 minutes fully relaxed on your side on each mattress) and then make sure that your hips aren't sinking in too far on either of them in any of your sleeping positions especially on your stomach.

There are many of our members who make and ship mattresses anywhere across the country, many of which make latex or latex hybrid mattresses. All of them IMO offer better value than any of these (and offer the forum members here a minimum of 5% discount or a product bonus on their mattresses). All of the latex options could be made either softer than the Englander mattress (if you need it) or similar to it so your testing on these two can serve as a model for which layering would be best for you. They are ...

www.mattresses.net/ Specializes in customizable 6" + 2" or 6" + 3" layering in either Talalay or Dunlop and side by side split construction is also available. Has a range of other options as well including organic Dunlop and a pocket coil/latex hybrid and can also do special orders of alternative layering on request. Has a zip cover so that the base layers can be exchanged if needed. Discount Code: MU5

www.baybed.com/ Specializes in a rather unique customized component mattress with latex layers of your choice over a high quality pocket coil design for those who prefer a latex/innerspring hybrid. Has a zip cover so that layers and components can be exchanged after purchase.

www.mygreenmattress.com Specializes in 2 sided talalay latex mattresses which are fully finished on both sides (no zip cover) as well as innerspring hybrids with natural fibers or latex. Can be chosen in soft medium or firm versions and has a 90 day comfort exchange if needed. The ability to flip a mattress will extend the life of even a latex mattress which is already longer lasting than other foams. Discount code: MATUNDR

www.sleepez.com Specializes in component "choose your own layer" mattresses that offer either natural Dunlop or natural or blended Talalay latex with a wide range of layering options and thicknesses available. A 3" 5.5 lb Sensus memory foam layer can also be chosen instead of a 3" latex layer in mattresses with a 3" comfort layer. Side by side split also available. They also offer several zip covers so layers can be exchanged.

www.kissmattress.com This is a relaunch (2018) by SleepEZ and is also one of the " simplified choice mattresses ". They have 4" flippable comfort layer with two firmness choices that is a combination of 2" NR Talalay latex and 2" Active Flo Foam (one of the newer generation of “high performance” polyfoams that are more breathable, faster responding, and less temperature sensitive) on top of a 6" 2 lb polyfoam base layer and is also a very high quality/value choice. New Kiss mattress configuration added Jan 2018

www.cozypure.com/ Specialize in high quality organic latex mattresses with a choice of layers and many custom choices including component latex mattresses. They also manufacture a wide range of organic accessories including toppers, mattress pads, and bedding at special discounts for those who have purchased a mattress. They are among the greenest and most ecofriendly manufacturers in all of North America and every product is as green, natural, or organic as it can be down to the last thread. They produce all their own power for their factory with wind, solar, and geothermal energy and would be of particular interest for those whose "value equation" includes buying from a natural, organic, and truly green manufacturer.

www.flobeds.com/ They are one of the original pioneer manufacturers of component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers and have some unique designs. They use a 2" convoluted top layer in all of their latex mattresses and also offer a custom zoned vZone mattress where you can choose your own zones to customize support/alignment which is unique. They are very knowledgeable and take great care with their customers with their attention to detail and their customer service. They also make a line of latex/memory foam mattresses and some more premium mattresses that include some less commonly seen materials including coir and horsehair.

http://www.spindlemattress.com They make a component latex mattress that use continuous pour Dunlop latex from Mountaintop Foam using 100% natural Dunlop latex. Their mattresses are 3 layers of latex with a wool quilted zip cover and they also offer a comfort adjustment with a new layer for those who need it after a purchase. Spindle itself is fairly new but the owner Neal is part of a mattress manufacturing family that has long term and deep roots in the industry and is very knowledgeable about latex and mattresses in general. This is another great quality/value choice. Post #6 here and this thread have more comments and feedback about them. Discount code: phoenix

www.flexuscomfort.com/ Makes a range of good quality/value latex and innerspring mattresses including two sided and latex hybrids and latex component "choose your own layer" mattresses that can be purchased locally or shipped across the country. They are knowledgeable and experienced and also offer layer exchanges for their component mattresses.

lumasleep.com > Shop > Mattresses. They sell 3 models – a 13" All-Latex Slumber mattress with a choice of comfort and two versions of latex/pocketed coil hybrid mattresses, each with a choice of comfort. Luma’s two-layer slumber system allows consumers to exchange the 3" Talalay comfort layer for free for up to one year after purchase. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and very transparent. One of the owners, former CEO Latex International (now Talalay Global) and several large US mattress manufacturing companies, has extensive experience in the US mattress industry. Discount code: TMU10

en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/ Canadian online retailer that sells a range of high quality memory foam and latex mattresses and hybrids that use good quality materials incuding 4 and 5 lb memory foam, Energia 3 lb HR polyfoam, and high quality/density base foam as well as several Nature's Embrace latex mattresses made by Renelle and low cost HD polyfoam mattresses as well. They are good quality and value, provide good guidance over the phone, and can ship across Canada.

sleepingorganic.com/ Charleston, SC. Factory direct manufacturer. Sells component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers using either 100% natural Dunlop (organic is also an option) or Talalay in 3" layers with your choice of ILD in each layer and a cotton/wool quilted organic zip cover. Brandon the owner is knowledgeable and transparent and they have good quality and value.

www.foamsweetfoam.com/ Fullerton, CA. Factory direct manufacturer. They sell component latex mattresses that you can choose between organic certified Dunlop latex or 100% natural Talalay layers with either two, three, four, of five 3" layers in your choice of firmness with an organic cotton and wool quilted zip cover. Scott is the owner here and I have known him for several years and he is also very knowledgeable and experienced. He makes good quality and value mattresses and is the only manufacturer I know that sells 15" component latex mattresses with 5 layers. He has been selling mattresses for over 30 years and online for over 9 years. They provide a 6% discount to the forum members here. Discount code: MU6

reverie.com/ US manufacturer that makes a unique line of latex mattresses that use latex cylinders for support that have multiple firmness options and which can be arranged in different patterns to create a zoning system that can customize support/alignment for different body types and sleeping positions both before and after a purchase. They use comfort layers that are a combination of latex and high quality 2.3 lb or higher polyfoam. They also provide blueprints that show a diagram of the most common and effective arrangements for the cylinders.

www.nestbedding.com [url] Mountain View, San Francisco, Berkeley, Los Angeles, CA. Mattresses made and partially owned by Brooklyn Bedding. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent and carry several mattresses that they sell locally and online including an organic latex mattress, a latex/polyfoam hybrid, memory foam mattresses, a two sided dual firmness latex/pocket coil hybrid, and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids (including two sided) that all use high quality materials. Joe the owner left a larger manufacturer that had a somewhat exaggerated focus on "green" mattresses to form his own company because he wanted to "do it right". Please see their Nest Bedding details for discount codes for various mattress lines (they will also match any other larger discount).

sleeponlatex.com/ Online only. They manufacture two 100% natural Dunlop latex mattresses that are different thicknesses (7" and 9") and that each come in three different firmness options. Both have a wool quilted organic cotton cover. They also sell latex toppers and mattress cores as well. They are knowledgeable and experienced and offer good quality/value products.

Sedona Sleep They are a sister company to Arizona Premium Mattress. This is also one of the new breed of " simplified choice mattresses " and is a two piece component system that is somewhat unique because it includes a separate finished "base mattress" that is made from 7" of 1.9 lb polyfoam which can be used by itself as a low cost medium firm mattress. It can also be used underneath an existing topper if you already have a topper and the mattress underneath it has developed soft spots or is sagging and needs to be replaced. The complete two piece system also includes a 3" blended Talalay latex topper in your choice of 4 different firmness levels on top of the base mattress and they also provide the option for a split firmness topper so each side of the complete system can have it's own firmness level (in queen and king sizes). The topper can be exchanged for a different firmness level during the 100 day trial period for just a low UPS shipping cost (using their commercial UPS rate). The discount code for the 5% TMU discount for forum members is "MUDISCOUNT"

http://www.novosbed.com/ They have now introduced their new " simplified choice " memory foam mattress in Jan, 2016 which replaces their previous lineup. They use good quality/density materials and their mattress comes in your choice of three different firmness levels that each have different memory foam densities and firmness levels (two 4 and/or 5 lb memory foam layers and a 1.8 lb polyfoam base layer) . They also have an optional "comfort +" attachment in different firmness levels as well which uses 2 lb polyfoam which is also a high quality material and is an additional zip attachment to the mattress for those that need to soften up or firm up their original choice after their purchase. They also provide good guidance about firmness options on the phone. Discount Code for a $100 discount on their mattress is MU100

www.addable.com is a new "simplified choice" mattress (launched in Feb/2016) from Spindle. They use good quality materials with 2" of 4 lb gel memory foam on top of a 2" transition layer of 1.8 lb polyfoam on top of a highly resilient 2.0 lb base layer. The design was based on the results of a focus group that tested many iterations of the mattress and there are are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress although I would be cautious with higher weight ranges (more than the lower 200's or so). They are also taking transparency and "truth in marketing" to a higher level with their matchmaker questionnaire which asks a series of questions to help their customers to assess whether the mattress may be a suitable choice (rather than saying that it will be suitable for everyone) and they have also listed all their material and manufacturing costs on their site and made their lower margins very obvious (which is one of the reasons for their low cost compared to most other simplified choice mattresses as well). The discount code for the 5% TMU discount for forum members is "UNDERGROUND"

latexmattressfactory.com/ They make a 7" 100% natural Dunlop latex mattress with an organic cotton cover quilted with natural wool that is available in a range of different firmness levels. They also sell individual Dunlop latex layers and a stretch knit cover for those who wish to build their own DIY latex mattress. They are also knowledgeable and experienced and carry good quality/value products.

selectfoam.com They used to be a member of this site but their membership has been terminated and they are included here as a reference only. See the warning posted in this topic .

Some other non member options that you might consider are:
tmasc.ca is a smaller sleep shop with stores in Edmonton and Calgary, AB. which specialize in high quality premium mattresses and some very high quality bedding products. They carry SleepTek and Greensleep customizable latex mattresses and Berkeley Ergonomics customizable pocket coil/microcoil/latex mattresses that they sell locally or ship across Canada. I have known Daniel one of the owners there for several years and they are exceptionally knowledgeable and helpful and have great integrity.

rockymountainmattress.com They sell two latex mattresses, one with a trizoned 6" dunlop latex core and one with an additional 2" of Talalay latex on top with different ILD's available. Also a wide choice of memory foam mattresses including several (in the component beds section of the site) with layers that can be re-arranged to customize the mattress either before or after purchase. They also make custom layered and sized mattresses to your specs as well. Added Note: The ownership changed sometime last year and some of the options listed here might not be available.

Between these manufacturers, most mattresses can be "approximated" in terms of pressure relief and alignment and firmness level or almost any needs and preferences can be met with the quality and value that is typically much better than anything available to those who don't have a factory direct manufacturer or a good quality/value retailer within reasonable driving distance. They are also very good at discussing your local mattress testing and "translating" it into recommendations or suggestions about which of their mattresses have the best chance of working well for you.

So unless the mattresses you are testing locally have a really compelling value or the value of buying locally makes it worth spending the extra money and/or using lower quality materials or construction ... I would certainly speak with these once you have spent a bit more time on the Natura and the Englander just to "make sure" about the pressure relief and alignment.

Phoenix


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22 Oct 2011 18:02 #22 by golson22m

Hi Phoenix: Thank you again! I am worried about "sinking" in the Natura. The last couple of mornings I have found myself on my stomach when I wokr. I worry about "hammocking" in the memory foam. I also worry about buying a matress on-line that we are not able to actually lay on first. We are currently visiting my parents on Cape Cod and will be traveling home tomorrow which takes us through the Boston area and Manchester and Concord, NH. Are there any places you would recommend in these areas to look?

Thank you, Glenn

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22 Oct 2011 20:40 - 09 Nov 2018 01:26 #23 by Phoenix

Hi Glenn,

There are a few places along the way but the best of them (to save you looking) would be ...

Local factory direct manufacturer. I had a quick conversation with him and plan to talk with him further. Makes a range of latex including 2 sided and I could see even with a quick conversation that he was "mattress people. Has been making mattresses for a long time and seems to have very good value as well. Would be well worth a visit even if they are a little out of the way.

Local factory direct manufacturer. Makes a range of high quality latex mattresses including latex hybrids and has good customer feedback. Not the least expensive but high quality. Also well worth dropping in.

They are a bed and breakfast but carry Savvy Rest which are a "choose your own layer" latex mattress. I would certainly call first before going here as some outlets carry a wider range of options than others (normally carry Dunlop and Talalay in various firmness options). Great for testing latex layering and high quality but not the best value.
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I would be "worrying" a bit about the alignment on the Natura as well ... particularly with memory foam and stomach sleeping ... not a great combination. An online purchase is not as difficult if you have tested mattresses and know the general layering you prefer and need as they are quite adept at working with their customers but I understand the hesitancy. With the two factory direct manufacturers on the list though ... you have the best of both worlds ... testing in person and good value.

These are the best I know of along the way. Have a good journey home :)

Phoenix


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25 Oct 2011 20:55 #24 by golson22m

Hi Phoenix: Unfortunately, each of those were closed on Sunday. We did just go and try some additional Natura mattresses today. We went from one of these three to the other and just could not decide. All are now 20% off as they are eliminating Natura due to it often take up to 3 months to get an order from them. What are your thoughts on these three?

Harmony (2000 - 20%)

Quilt

Aloe Vera Ticking
2.3 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
1" Convoluted Dunlop Latex - soft
2" Talalay Latex - soft
2" Talalay Katex - medium

Core
5" Plant-based foam


Solace Luxery (2699 - 20%)

Quilt

Cashmere Blend Ticking
4.2 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
3-Zone, 2" Talalay Latex - soft
3-Zone, 2" Talalay Latex - medium

Core
4" All Natural Dunlop Latex
2" All Natural Coconut Coir


Solace Dual (1 side firm, 1 side plush) (2699 - 20%)

Quilt

Cashmere Blend Ticking
4.2 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
3-Zone, 4" Talalay Latex - firm

Core
4" All Natural Dunlop Latex
2" All Natural Coconut Coir

I felt the best pressure relief on the Solace Luxery and Harmony, but felt like the best alignment may have been the firm of the Solace Dual. I liked the "feel" of either the Harmony or Luxery best, but realize that I need to be concerned about alignment as well. Any advice you could give on our dilemma is greatly appreciated! I don't know how much more we could lay on these and have any better idea of which is best.

Thank you again! Glenn

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26 Oct 2011 01:49 #25 by Phoenix

Hi Glenn,

That's a shame that they were closed as both of them would have had great choices and good value (better than the Natura sale prices ... (particularly Worley who makes a 2 sided all latex queen in roughly the same range as the Harmony on sale).

Did both of you get to test the Naturas?

Based on your comments ...

The Harmony has about 3" of soft latex and an inch of quilting. It's in the ball park but probably a little on the thick side for both of you. In your case because of your back and stomach sleeping ... in your wife's case because she probably won't need something that thick on top.

The Luxury has a lot of wool on top which may compress over time (even though its tufted) and firm up your latex. It has 3" of soft foam on top (2" talalay and an inch of polyfoam) and because this seemed OK for pressure relief it would be better. Both the comfort layer and the middle layer are zoned which would help slightly with keeping the hips up and alignment. The Core is listed on the Natura site as being Talalay not Dunlop but either way it would be firmer and with the Coir under it would provide a firm lower layer. Overall I would vote for this one as the best model.

The Solace Dual would likely be too firm for side sleeping for most people on the firm side.

I think your experience is saying you are right in the range of "average" recommendations if you were to go the online route and the worst case is that in the unlikely event that it wasn't quite right ... a single layer exchange would be all that you would need. I'd be interested though how she also felt about the 3 choices and if her experience was similar to yours.

Phoenix


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26 Oct 2011 13:00 #26 by golson22m

Hi Phoenix: My wife preferred to Luxery, but was fine with either. It is interesting that you mentioned it possibly getting firmer over time as my fear was the opposite. I was afraid that if it felt kind of soft now, that I might "sink" over time when side sleeping.

Do you feel these prices are reasonable with the 20% off? Exchange is not an option as all sales are final on the Naturas.

Thank you, Glenn

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26 Oct 2011 16:59 #27 by Phoenix

Hi Glenn,

While all foam including latex will soften over time ... latex will soften considerably less than polyfoam or memory foam which is one of the reasons it is so durable. When there is a thick layer of wool or other natural fibers over the latex ... it tends to compress over time which makes it firmer and reduces the ability of the latex underneath to take on your body shape and relieve pressure. While certain types of construction can reduce this (such as tufting), the tendency is still there. Many manufacturers are using thick circular knits without quilting over latex (especially softere latex) for this reason but without wool ... other methods of fire retardency need to be included in the mattress (Natura uses wool in combination with Borax for fire retardancy).

There is more information about the effect of wool and quilting in post #87 here

In terms of the Natura's value ... it is good compared to normal Natura pricing but Natura pricing as a whole is quite high (although it is a quality mattress) and 20% off still doesn't put it in the same value range as most independent manufacturers either local or online IMO.

Having said that ... there is always something to be said for buying a mattress which you have tested for pressure relief and alignment even if the price is higher. "All sales are final" though means that there would be no chance to adjust your mattress if your longer term sleeping experience was different from your testing while with an online DIY purchase you retain the ability to make adjustments if necessary and the "value" in terms of materials and price would be significantly better.

As I mentioned in the post about quilting though ... everything involves tradeoffs and the components that make up "value" are different for different people depending on what is most important for each person.

Phoenix


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27 Oct 2011 22:21 #28 by golson22m

Phoenix: In post #21 you compare the Natura to the Englander that I listed in #18. Which of the two Englanders were you talking about? Are your thoughts any different between the two?

Thank you, Glenn

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28 Oct 2011 00:07 - 28 Oct 2011 00:07 #29 by Phoenix

Hi Glenn,

In post #18 you actually mentioned 3 Englander models.

Englander Liberty ($1400) Which has latex over a polyfoam base with polyfoam quilting. This is the one I was referring to in my "Englander" comments in post #21

Englander Memory Foam Village ($1000) Which has 3" of unknown memory foam over a polyfoam base. You would sink more "in" this mattress because of being directly on top of the memory foam with no foam or quilting between you and the memory foam to insulate your body heat. This would be similar to the Natura Sensation except by being directly on the memory foam it would "melt" more and you would be more in the mattress than the Natura (which insulates you from the memory foam with an inch of polyfoam and wool). Of course there are other differences between this and the Natura Sensation in terms of layering as well. The Natura has zoned latex (as a transition layer under the memory foam) and then a latex core which are higher quality materials and a more sophisticated construction than the Englander. The Englander is basically just memory foam over firmer poly so a much simpler construction and more "typical" memory foam construction than the Natura.

Englander Malibu Foam Boxtop ( $1200) Which is polyfoam over a pocket coil. I would certainly avoid this one because there is too much polyfoam in the upper layers and these are the types of mattress that tend to develop impressions and soft spots when the polyfoam breaks down.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 28 Oct 2011 00:07 by Phoenix.

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29 Oct 2011 11:39 #30 by golson22m

Hi Phoenix: After being woken a couple of times last night by my wife's movements, I realized that I never mentioned one of our biggest needs in a mattress; something that has little. When we began this process we started out looking at memory foam for this reason. However, our concern about sleeping hot and sinking in sent us in the latex direction. What are your thoughts on this? Will the latex meet this need, at least as compared to our current innerspring matress?

Thank you, Glenn

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