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Have you ever heard of ??

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21 Feb 2012 00:24 #1 by ima
Been reading this site for many days and I think I have learned alot. Thank you for a site for information junkies like myself. I find when I talk to the sales people now I feel I know more then they do ( it is amazing to me that so many just repeat a sales pitch).

I came across a little furniture builder who also carries some mattresses. He has a memory foam bed from a company called Ortho Sleep. The bed is 3" of 5.7 density memory foam with 7" of poly foam base. He doesn't have anymore info and I can't find any info on the web and I was hoping that you have heard of them. As a side note the owner said that the mattress maker use to work for Serta or Seally and decided to work for himself.

After reading this site I have found a mattress maker in portland Maine (I live in Maine) called "Portland Mattress Maker". I was hoping that you know anything about them. They say that their foam mattresses are comparable to the Tempur cloud, which is what we are looking for as far as feel.

Thanks, and I'll keep reading and learning.

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21 Feb 2012 03:58 - 28 Jun 2012 22:01 #2 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Hi ima,

There is an Ortho mattress based in Calfornia but I doubt this is the one. It could also be that this is a model line rather than the manufacturer. I'm surprised he doesn't know the company that made it or where he bought it from.

There are a couple of manufacturers in Maine that fit the profile of the type of manufacturer that I would certainly put my focus on.

One is www.portlandmattressmakers.com/ (as you mentioned). They make quite a wide range of mattresses including memory foam, latex and innersprings. They also make boat mattresses here www.boatmattress.com/ .

Their memory foam uses 5 lb foam which is good quality but it would depend on the layering they used and the type of foam whether or not it felt like a Tempurpedic Cloud. Memory foam mattresses have a very wide variety of different feels depending on the type of memory foam they use and how the foams are layered and also what is under the memory foam. The Cloud series uses a combination of softer faster reacting 4 lb form and the regular 5.3 lb tempur foam.

Another local manufacturer in Maine is www.maidenmaine.com/ (AKA Daly Bros). They also make a range of mattresses using high quality materials.

While I don't have any direct experience with either of these ... I have heard good things about both of them and wouldn't hesitate to pay either or both of them a visit if you were close enough.

The Ortho Sleep also seems to use good quality foam but I would make sure it is North American manufactured. While it could also be a good mattress for you (depending on your height, weight, body shape, sleeping positions, and preferences), ... it's unlikely that it would feel like the cloud because it uses different layering. To roughly duplicate the one of the Cloud models would need a memory foam mattress that used a similar layering of a similar type of memory foam (4 lb and 5 lb memory foams).

If you find out any more about the "mystery" manufacturer ... let me know.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 28 Jun 2012 22:01 by Phoenix.

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21 Feb 2012 16:04 - 21 Feb 2012 17:38 #3 by ima
Replied by ima on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Thanks for getting back to me. I looked around and found the company that sells the Ortho sleep: Ortho Sleep Products LLC (718) 894-0190 1633 Centre St Ridgewood, NY 11385. I talked to a receptionist and she said if I wanted specs I would have to talk to the owner who was unavailible at the moment. I can't find anything else online. I don't know if you know anything else? On a side note, I tried the bed but the showroom was like 60 deg. and the bed was rock hard.

We have laid on several beds and my wife likes the feel of the ones that have 4lb foam. We have tried and liked the following:
Sealy Cedar point which has 3" of 4lb memory foam on 7" of sealyfoam.
Corsicana Harmony cool gel 1 3/4" Cool Reflections Gel, 1" Cool Reflections Memory Foam' 2" Super Soft Comfort Foam, 7" High Density Foam Core with Foam Encased Rails
Icomfort Insight (I know how you feel about this bed but we like the feel of it)
One place had a Serta Kerrick which the saleman said had 3" of 4lb on either 6" or 7" of core foam. He only mentioned it because I asked. He was just trying to rush us to the Icomfort display.
I have tried the Tempur cloud and liked the feel. Most of the others are too hard, too slow to respond for my wife.
I'm 6' 3" and 220lbs while my wife is 5'10" and 275lbs. I start off on my back and just roll to my stomach and sides all night. My wife is mostly a side sleeper. If I understand correctly from reading my wife needs 3" of comfort foam and 5lbs+ for durability. I find if I go below 4lb my hips sink down and my back aches.

Is there a way to get a higher quality memory foam that feels softer. Like I said my wife cant stand that "clunk and then melt in" feel.
Thanks so much for you help and wisdom.:cheer:

PS I was reading in another thread and Overnight Mattress has perked my interest. You said you don't recommend the gel top and I was wondering why. Also I checked out some reviews of them and the main complaint isn't their products but that customer service after the sale is horrible. Any input on this would be of great help.
Last edit: 21 Feb 2012 17:38 by ima.

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21 Feb 2012 19:00 - 21 Feb 2012 19:04 #4 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Hi ima,

I looked them up and had a chance to talk with Michael the owner of Orthosleep products this morning. They are a wholesale manufacturer who makes mainly what are called promotional mattresses which means they are in the lower budget ranges. They sell through retail outlets and they are very open about the foams they use and the "ingredients" in their mattresses. They are good value compared to major brands that use similar quality foams.

He has been involved in the industry for 30 years, has owned mattress factories and a large textile company, and is very knowledgeable and helpful. His website orthosleepproducts.com/ will be up and running in about 10 days. They have many retail outlets and one of them is www.building19.com/index.htm who include them in their weekly specials from time to time. If one of their retailers doesn't know the details of the foam used in a particular mattress ... a quick call to Orthosleep can find out. They are certainly worth considering in the low budget ranges where they compete well.

I personally would tend to avoid the major brands ... not because they don't feel good but because when you compare them to smaller manufacturers who use similar quality foams and similar layering ... they just don't compete well on value.

For example ... the Sealy Cedar Point which is a very basic low budget memory foam mattress. It sells at sears for $809 in queen. While it may or may not have a feel you like ... it is nothing like the iComforts or the Tempurpedic Cloud series which use layering of different types of memory foams to create how each model feels.

Corsicana is a mid size national manufacturer which specializes in lower budget mattresses and they tend to compare well with larger manufacturers in the same price ranges (if you compare ingredients). There is better value yet though IMO by dealing with smaller or local manufacturers.

The icomfort has a very popular feel (and they have been selling like hotcakes because of it) and they have done a great job of promoting gel memory foam but again ... they don't compete well with smaller manufacturers who use similar or higher quality ingredients and sell for lower prices.

With your larger weights ... and if you are committed to memory foam over other materials ... I would be seriously looking at using memory foam over 5 lb density. If this isn't possible or if the 5 lb foam you are testing doesn't have the feel you are looking for ... then I would consider a mattress which has a removeable layer or a zip cover where layers can be removed so if the lower density foams wear out prematurely then you can replace the layer rather than the whole mattress.

Some better online memory foam outlets are in post #12 here.

There are many reasons why different memory foam mattresses have different feels and different levels of softness or firmness and post #4 here goes into more detail about this often misunderstood subject.

I don't recommend the gel top at Overnight Mattress mainly because gel memory foam is an emerging category (an offshoot of memory foam) and there are IMO better and worse ways to add gel to foam. The versions that use "beads" or "particles" are likely to be less durable than the versions that infuse the gel into the memory foam itself or add it in different ways than "particles" that are spread throughout the foam and give the foam a "false density" in terms of measuring durability. Some of the gel memory foam options are discussed in post #26 here .

My first choice would be one of the local manufacturers I mentioned and I would avoid major brands and chain stores completely. if for some reason there was nothing suitable at either of the local factory direct manufacturers that you liked ... then I would look online at outlets that allowed you some options to customize your mattress in different ways or had better value.

The guidelines about the thickness of the layers are only guidelines to be confirmed with actual "lay on mattress" testing. Your wife may need thicker firmer layers than normal and you ... because you sleep in all positions including your stomach ... you will need the thinnest firmest comfort layer possible that relieves pressure in all positions (especially your side).

You can spend a lot of time and energy (and become increasingly overwhelmed and frustrated) focusing on brands and outlets which don't offer the best value and don't make it easy to know what is in them. I would make the job much simpler by visiting local manufacturers who know what is in their mattress and have the knowledge and ability to help you make better choices that are more suitable for your body weight, body shape, and sleeping positions. The alternative would be looking at some of the better manufacturers or outlets online.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 21 Feb 2012 19:04 by Phoenix.

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21 Feb 2012 19:52 #5 by ima
Replied by ima on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Thanks for the info on orthosleep. I goes to show how powerful you are. I have talked to their customer service lady but she didn't know any of the numbers so she told me back and when I did the owner was busy (I wonder if he was busy talking to you).

As far as buying a name brand or big store, we are just going to these places to get an idea for what we like the feel of. I figure once we know what we like we will be able to find something better else where.

I did talk to Portland Mattress and they were very helpful. they said their Portland-pedic was 3" of 5lb memory foam on top of 7" of 1.8lb of core foam (He thought that the ILD was 34, he wasn't sure and told me I could call back tomorrow and talk to someone else, He also said that IFD was usually what he uses with latex and not foam) They say that feel is subjective but he thought it felt like the Tempure Cloud series. How can that be when one has serveral layer and one has two layer?

The Portland-pedic is $1299 for the king size matress. How would this compare to the Overnight Mattress cool breeze at $799 ?

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21 Feb 2012 21:44 - 10 Oct 2014 21:34 #6 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Hi ima,

Thanks for the info on orthosleep. I goes to show how powerful you are. I have talked to their customer service lady but she didn't know any of the numbers so she told me back and when I did the owner was busy (I wonder if he was busy talking to you).


I'm fortunate that I'm often (but certainly not always) able to talk with the owners or the people who make the mattresses when I call but I think it helps that I tell them that I run a consumer information website which helps people to find better local manufacturers.

As far as buying a name brand or big store, we are just going to these places to get an idea for what we like the feel of. I figure once we know what we like we will be able to find something better else where.


That makes good sense to me as long as they are able to tell you the materials you are sleeping on especially in the top few layers of a mattress. There are so many different varieties of each material that it can be somewhat difficult or confusing to try and "duplicate" a feel you like without knowing the details of a mattress you like. Of course the more general specs of many of the mattresses are available online with a bit of searching so they can at least be a general guideline even if it's not completely "accurate".

I did talk to Portland Mattress and they were very helpful. they said their Portland-pedic was 3" of 5lb memory foam on top of 7" of 1.8lb of core foam (He thought that the ILD was 34, he wasn't sure and told me I could call back tomorrow and talk to someone else, He also said that IFD was usually what he uses with latex and not foam) They say that feel is subjective but he thought it felt like the Tempure Cloud series. How can that be when one has serveral layer and one has two layer?


He's correct that the feel of memory foams is very subjective and there are many many different types of memory foams which can feel very different from each other even though they all share the "memory foam" feeling (slow recovery or an imprint which doesn't spring right back). The 5 lb memory foam they use may be formulated to be a little quicker recovery or "softer" than some others and in this way be "closer" to the Tempur Cloud series (which has several different "feels" in their lineup depending on the model and layering pattern) but I would think that most people would perceive it as being different. Many people who talk with a manufacturer or outlet will talk about the overall "memory foam feel" without knowing there is a wide variety of different types within the category and outlets are more used to people who think that memory foam is memory foam and have little knowledge of the differences between them. When they tell people that a memory foam mattress feels like the Cloud they may be referring to the overall memory foam feel rather than a particular type of memory foam feel and may not realize they are talking with someone who may know that memory foam mattresses come in many different types.

ILD (or the newer term IFD which is basically the same thing) is a measurement of all foams but is more commonly used with latex and polyfoam (although it only indicates firmness and has nothing to do with density or quality). Very few manufacturers or outlets have customers who even ask about ILD/IFD of polyfoam and lying on a mattress will also tell you if a layer or support core is firmer or softer even if the ILD is unknown. With memory foam ... ILD is not so meaningful and specs like density and recovery rate and breathability are far more important. All memory foams would be considered soft once they warm up to the degree they need to to take on the shape of the body lying on them.

The Portland-pedic is $1299 for the king size matress. How would this compare to the Overnight Mattress cool breeze at $799 ?


The Cool Bamboo (which is the one I think you mean?) with their 5.3 lb memory foam (needs to be ordered on the phone and is not on their list) would be most comparable to another 5 lb foam although it is likely a little firmer and may feel different than the foam at Portland Mattress Makers. It would be similar in quality however. The 4.5 lb foam at Overnight feels "softer" and a little less motion restricting but is slightly lower density/durability. The base foam at overnight is 2.1 lbs which is a little higher quality but the "weak link" is normally in the upper layers not the base foam. Different covers/tickings can also make a difference in cost. There is also the factor that there are also more and less expensive versions of memory foam with similar density. While density is the single biggest factor in terms of foam quality/durability, there are foams which are more expensive which are formulated to have certain more desirable characteristics than others so a comparison by density alone (assuming they are both American made or CertiPur certified foams that don't use fillers and have a misleading density) is not the complete story of why one foam may cost more than another. The feel of a memory foam and factors like breathability, response rate, temperature sensitivity, and others also plays a role.

While there is no way to tell for sure how they would compare to each other in terms of "feel" without lying on them (which is why I place a premium on buying a mattress I've actually tested, at least to a point), in terms of overall quality, the Overnight would seem to be a better value (as long as you chose a comparable memory foam).

Phoenix

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Last edit: 10 Oct 2014 21:34 by Phoenix.

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24 Feb 2012 00:30 #7 by ima
Replied by ima on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Went to another shop today with my wife so I could get an idea of the feel that she likes. We laid in several Tempurpedic beds and the one she liked was the Cloud. I'm not looking to buy the Cloud but a feel. From what I understand they use 4lb in the support layer. With both of us larger I'm afraid that it won't hold up as long. But the 5lb foam seems harder slower to respond. Is there a 5lb quality foam that has a lower IFD (I hope I'm using this term right) so that it feels as responsive and as soft as a 4lb foam.

In this light I was reading on sleepwarehouse's site and they describe their foam this way:

Slow Recovery is a claim made by many products. Our 5 lb memory foam improves on other leading premium products with nearly 3 1/2 times slower recovery!!


Am I to understand they are saying that their foam has even more of a firm initial feel, more of the "clunk and then sink in" feel. If so then this surprises me as I can't believe that someone would want something "harder" (pleases help me in finding the right way to express this feeling) than say a tempur classic or other 5"+ lb foams I have been on.

Today we also laid on a few latex beds and my wife was surprised that it was as pressure relieving as a comfort layer as the memory foam. The bed we laid in that we both liked was an 8" Englander organic latex bed. The people there didn't know the IFD of the bed was (they actually didn't know what that meant) but gave me a number I could call.

Here is an odd question, we laid in a latex bed that was some blended mix and my wife was comfortable on her side but when she rolled over onto her back she felt that her hips didn't sink in (or that her shoulders sank in too far). The question is how can the hip sink in on the side but the rear end not sink in far enough in the same area of the bed?

Tomorrow we are checking out the Portland Mattress Makers and hopefully learn a few things. Is there anything I should be sure to ask or look out for?

Thanks again for all you help.

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24 Feb 2012 02:47 - 05 Mar 2013 16:56 #8 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Hi Ima,

Some of the descriptions on their site are a little misleading so hopefully I can clarify a bit.

First of all it's important to know that there is no such thing as "supportive" memory foam. While it's true that some will hold up more weight than others or are "relatively firmer" ... none of them are supportive enough to be used in the support layers of a mattress. When talking about memory foam ... words like "supportive" really mean degrees of softness. Memory foam is a pressure relieving comfort material not a support material. The support layers underneath the memory foam are the supportive part of the mattress.

The next thing about memory foam is density. Higher density means more durable foam. Higher density foam tends to have more "memory" while lower density foam tends to be closer to polyfoam (less viscosity and faster response).

ILD (or IFD) in memory foam is only a minor issue and is a measure of foam softness. They are all soft though and almost all memory foams have an ILD of 15 and below. Even the firmer ones go up to about 18 which is also soft. It's the difference between soft, super soft, and ultra soft. Now ILD is measured with a time delay to give the memory foam time to respond (it's a slow response material) because if you put sudden pressure on it, it will feel firm (just like pushing quickly on honey instead of pushing slowly on honey). The temperature, humidity, speed of movement, response rate, and to a much lesser degree ILD all play a role in how firm a memory foam feels. With other instant reacting foams, firmness is all about ILD and compression modulus (how quickly it gets firmer with more compression). With memory foam ... ILD is one of the least important reasons a foam may feel firm.

There are many many different combinations of chemicals that are used in memory foam formulations and there are also variations in how it is produced and all of these formulations and production methods produce memory foams with different properties. While they are all memory foam (the handprint stays in the foam for a while) they are also very different in terms of feel. Each of the many manufacturers may have dozens of different types of memory foam that each have a different feel and response and there are many different manufacturers as well. Even more confusing ... there are also different additions that can be added to the memory foam formulations (like gel beads with the iComfort) which can change the properties of the memory foam as well.

One of the things that manufacturers change is how temperature sensitive the memory foam is. Memory foam that is more temperature sensitive will be firmer/stiffer when it is cold and softer/pliable when it is warmer. More temperature sensitive foam will be softer closer to your body but firmer beside your body. Foams that are more sensitive to cooler temperatures tend to be quite stiff in the areas a little further away from your body and softer underneath your body and close to your body heat. This is especially true when the environment is cooler.

Another thing manufacturers will vary is how long the foam keeps the memory of a shape before it comes back to level or how long it takes to soften before it conforms to your body. Faster response foams have a little more elasticity and respond to changes faster and a little less viscosity (liquid like) and "shape memory".

Another thing that many manufacturers work on is to make a more open celled foam (memory foam usually has a less open cell structure than other foams) so that it can be more breathable and sleep cooler. Cooling down memory foam is one of the big things in the industry because memory foam tends to sleep hotter than other foams. A side effect of more breathable foams is that they are also a little faster reacting (air can flow back and refill the parts that were compressed more easily.

All of these things are related but also very different. You can have for example a 5 lb breathable faster reacting and less temperature sensitive foam or a 5 lb less breathable slower reacting and more temperature sensitive foam depending on the formulation and production methods.

In general ... bearing in mind that any density can have different properties ... the lower densities of the same type of memory foam will be less temperature sensitive, faster reacting, and more breathable. They will also be less durable than a denser foam of the same type. Some people prefer slightly lower density 4 lb memory foams because of these differences in performance even though they may be less durable. I would be very cautious about using 4 lb memory foam with higher weights though (say over 200 lbs or so) because of potential durability issues.

Perhaps the strangest thing about memory foam is that the higher density foams ... even those that feel firmer and more "stiff" with lower temperatures (and which people may call too hard or feel like it traps them) can also be the most pressure relieving once they have enough time to take on the shape of the body and redistribute the body weight. The more of the heavier chemicals there are in foam that give it more viscosity, the more it can conform more precisely to the shape of your body. The problem is that it may take more time to get there and to change into a new shape if you move so people often don't like the feeling of firmness and motion restriction even though it may be more pressure relieving. So in effect ... the firmer higher density foams (or at least the ones that take longer to get softer) are the most pressure relieving once they take on your shape but are slow to conform to a new shape when you change position or when they are colder so they can feel firmer.

So my goal in all of this is to make clear that different memory foams can be difficult to compare.

One thing you can count on is that higher density is more durable relative to lower density (it will keep it's characteristics and it's "memory" longer).

Another general trend that is more of the "norm" is that faster response foams don't get quite as stiff when they are cool and are more breathable than slower response more temperature sensitive foams. they also don't get quite as soft or "gooey" when they warm up either. Newer generation foams tend to be more of this type because people wanted less motion restricting and less temperature sensitive memory foams without giving up the memory foam qualities.

It also tends to be true that lower density foams are faster responding (feel softer because there is less stiffness to overcome) than higher density foams. It's also tends to be true that higher density foams will allow for less sinking in than lower density foams and while this doesn't really qualify them to be called supportive ... this is why some people use the word when describing them. This is why the tempur cloud series feels softer than the other lines but is also less conforming and pressure relieving than their denser slower responding foams.

So what they are saying about the Sensus is that it is a slower recovery type of foam rather than a fast recovery type of foam and that it is very pressure relieving. Aerus for example also comes in a 5 lb version (they only carry the 4 lb) and it would be a faster recovery and more breathable version of 5 lb foam. Both are very high quality but Sensus is closer to the tempurpedic feel than the faster recovery feel of the Aerus.

On to your other questions and comments ...

Today we also laid on a few latex beds and my wife was surprised that it was as pressure relieving as a comfort layer as the memory foam. The bed we laid in that we both liked was an 8" Englander organic latex bed. The people there didn't know the IFD of the bed was (they actually didn't know what that meant) but gave me a number I could call.


Latex can be just as pressure relieving as memory foam (it can conform to a body shape and distribute weight) just as well. The difference is that it can also be more supportive, more breathable, and more motion friendly (no trapped feeling) because its more elastic and not temperature sensitive. Englanders are made of Dunlop latex. Many or most (but not all) of the Englanders have polyfoam over the latex so unless you checked to make sure what every layer of the mattress was made of you wouldn't be able to tell if you were feeling soft polyfoam over latex or latex itself. Talalay latex tends to come in softer and more pressure relieving versions than Dunlop.

Here is an odd question, we laid in a latex bed that was some blended mix and my wife was comfortable on her side but when she rolled over onto her back she felt that her hips didn't sink in (or that her shoulders sank in too far). The question is how can the hip sink in on the side but the rear end not sink in far enough in the same area of the bed?


This may have been blended Talalay latex ... or something else of course. How far each part sinks in has to do with how much weight it carries and the surface area that carries the weight, Thin or narrow shoulders will sink in easier than thicker wider shoulders. Narrow more pointed hips will sink in easier than the greater surface area of the same area on the back. This is part of the reason that weight and body shape are so important and that they are matched to a mattress. While it's very unusual for the shoulsers to sink in too far and the hips or pelvis not enough ... it certainly is possible. This would also depend on the relative width of the shoulders and hips. The mattress also could have been zoned to be softer under the shoulders and firmer under the hips.

Trust your instincts, test specifically for pressure relief and alignment when you are fully relaxed and your muscles have "let go" (which usually takes a while in a mattress store) and use the knowledge and guidance of the manufacturer (who tend to know more than typical salespeople in stores that don't actually make the mattresses) and you will do fine. Take your time as well and ask as many questions as you need to. Better choices are worth a little more effort and time because a new mattress will affect how you sleep and also how you feel when you are awake for many years.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 05 Mar 2013 16:56 by Phoenix.

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26 Feb 2012 10:42 #9 by ima
Replied by ima on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Wife got sick so no mattress shopping this weekend. But it has given me some more time to read and read and then read some more. Actually my wife was teasing me that most wives worry about their husbands staying up late looking at racey sites and that she has to worry about me staying up too late reading mattress forums ;).

I saw in another thread you did a breakdown of the Icomfort series as far as each layer and what it all does. I thought that was very good. I have searched and haven't found a breakdown of the Temperpedic line. I was hoping you could do a breakdown of them as well or point me direction of this if it is already done.

Still trying to wrap my brain around the memory foam issue. I understand what the weight means and what IFD means but is there a standard or a way to compare the responsiveness of the foam?

You can have for example a 5 lb breathable faster reacting and less temperature sensitive foam or a 5 lb less breathable slower reacting and more temperature sensitive foam depending on the formulation and production methods.

If I decide to to buy online how to I know I'm getting the feel I want. I obviously want the most durable foam (This is the reason we are avoiding the the big names, right) but my wife will shoot me if I get a slow responding foam.

Sensus is that it is a slow recovery type of foam rather than a fast recovery type of foam that is very pressure relieving. Aerus for example also comes in a 5 lb version (they only carry the 4 lb) and it would be a faster recovery and more breathable version of 5 lb foam

The Aerus claims to be a newer technology and it seems they are saying it is more durable. How would this compare to an older 5lb, still less durable or the same? Also I have seen foam that is 4.5lb or 5.2lb. How much difference are the numbers behind the decimal point. How much difference would this be from a straight 5.0lb foam? (Sorry if this seems like a petty question but it has been bugging me)

Thanks again for a wonderful site and trying to shine light in a very murky journey:) :)

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26 Feb 2012 15:27 - 07 Mar 2015 19:08 #10 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Have you ever heard of ??
Hi ima,

Actually my wife was teasing me that most wives worry about their husbands staying up late looking at racey sites and that she has to worry about me staying up too late reading mattress forums .


Now that's funny! I can relate though ... except in my case it's staying up late doing mattress research or answering posts in a forum. Either way though ... I guess it keeps both of us out of "trouble" ... or maybe gets us into trouble as in "don't you think it's time to come to bed!" :)

I saw in another thread you did a breakdown of the Icomfort series as far as each layer and what it all does. I thought that was very good. I have searched and haven't found a breakdown of the Tempurpedic line. I was hoping you could do a breakdown of them as well or point me direction of this if it is already done.


The Tempurpedic mattresses are a little easier to analyze because they use fewer types of material. They are basically all made from layers of memory foam of different densities (4.1 lb ES, 5.3 lb, and 7 lb HD). The regular 5.3 lb comes in a softer formulation and a "regular" formulation. All of their mattresses use polyfoam support layers and most are good quality and range from 2 lb to 2.2 lb but some use lower density polyfoam in the 1.5 lb range.

Their mattresses are made up of different layers of memory foams of different densities and formulas to create different feels. All of these layers are listed on the Tempurpedic site which is one of the things they're good at (EDIT: this is no longer the case and their specs may no longer be the same and they aren't releasing information about any of their new lines). The 7 lb foam is more conforming (meaning that it can relieve pressure better) and generally softer feeling than the 5.3 lb memory foam but it is also firmer feeling to some people because it takes longer to soften, has a more "resistant" feeling against movement, and denser memory foams allow a little less sinking in ... at least initially ... which is why they're often described as more "supportive". This materials is used in thinner layers in various models to modify the feel and add to pressure relief.It's also the most expensive of the memory foam materials. The regular 5.3 lb foam is the firmest in terms of softness, and ease of movement. Many people feel that this one too creates a "sleeping in sand" feeling. Some like this motion restriction "sleeping in sand" feeling and some don't. Next down the line is the softer 5.3 lb formulation which is more responsive and softer feeling than the regular which is why it's often used in the upper layers when you see two layers of what seems to be the same 5.3 lb memory foam. Finally the softest but least conforming is the 4.1 lb foam which is used in different ways throughout the Cloud series.

All of the Tempurpedics use somewhat less breathable memory foam than many other types so they would also tend to sleep hotter. This is why they use the "airflow system" in the base layers which is convoluted foam which in theory helps the layers to breathe. In practice though ... the effect of this is somewhat limited because the convoluted foam is covered with less open celled memory foam so for the convoluted layer to work the air would need to go through the less breathable foam on top. Lying on a mattress also compresses the "channels" and limits their effect. The most effective "breathable" memory foams have a more open celled structure than the Tempur material and/or punch holes in the upper layers to help with airflow and help the upper layers "connect" better with any air channels underneath.

There is one exception to the use of combinations of memory foam comfort layers and polyfoam support layers in the lineup which is the Bellafina (NOTE: no longer sold in the US) which uses 3" of Dunlop latex underneath the memory foam and then adds the polyfoam underneath this. the quality of the latex is unknown but If I had to guess it would likely be a blended or synthetic Dunlop which is about the lowest cost version of latex even though low cost latex is still better than other foams.

So to compare a Tempurpedic with other mattresses in terms of quality and durability would be a matter of comparing the quality and density of the foams used in each mattress. In most cases I would tend to reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foams for those who are over the low 200 lb range because they are less durable than higher density memory foams.

In terms of "feel" though ... it's a very different story. Tempur uses fairly sophisticated layerings of different types of memory foams to create a wide range of mattresses which not only feel different but cater to different sleeping styles and preferences. Their foams tend to be of the "less responsive" and "less breathable" type compared to many others but only lying on a mattress can really tell how these differences and the different memory foam layerings will feel to each person. One of the reasons that the iComfort has been so successful is that it uses more "responsive" and breathable memory foams (which some people ... but not all ... seem to prefer).

In general though ... Tempurpedic uses high quality foams (keeping in mind that a 4 lb foam is always less durable than a 5.3 lb foam) but they are significantly overpriced IMO when compared to many other memory foam mattresses that use equal quality materials in similar layering. Each memory foam has a certain feel though which is independent of it's quality so because Tempurpedic is so widely available and was the first to market ... it has become the "standard" to which others are compared both in terms of quality and feel which they have used to full advantage in their marketing materials and in their pricing. A great deal of confusion in both consumers and in the memory foam market along with continual aggressive advertising has allowed them to maintain and even increase this perception ... at least till recently.

IMO (and supported by more scientific information regarding foam manufacturing) ... they are no longer the "quality" leader or the "feel" leader ... however they remain the leader in name recognition and are a common "safe" choice for people who aren't aware of other mattresses of equal quality that they can reasonably compare them to. The market is so confused that many people think "memory foam is memory foam" and compare the Tepurpedics to one of the thousands of "cheap" memory foam mattresses which use 3 lb foam and cheap base layers and completely misleading "tempurpedic comparisons" and when the Tempur feels and performs better than the cheap low quality "imitations" ... they think that Tempurpdic is the "best" memory foam out of all the other choices. This is the consumer and market confusion that has allowed Tempurpedic to maintain its sales and profit margins and which until recently allowed them to keep increasing their market share and profit margins as well) even though there are many mattresses that compete very favorably in every meaningful category of comparison.

There are more thoughts about the Tempurpedic mattresses in this thread , about the Bellafina here , and some interesting observations in post #18 here .

This post is probably getting pretty long and it's probably better to leave it by itself as a general "Tempurpedic analysis" so I'll leave your other questions for a separate reply.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 07 Mar 2015 19:08 by Phoenix.

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