× Welcome! Any mattress questions are welcome here ... but make sure you've read the mattress shopping tutorial linked in the top right of the page :).

normal My Essentia.com False Advertising and Lying to Consumer

More
25 Apr 2012 06:07 - 25 Apr 2012 14:31 #16 by Phoenix

Hi yogiyoda,

No offence taken :)

Also, I have seen no proof that that report is even legitimate analysis of Essentia foam. But I leave open the possibility that it is legit. I take it you did some due diligence verifying that it was. If it is legit analysis, the preponderance of evidence leads to petrol-chemicals being involved. However, as stated previously, I do believe there is room for doubt - possibly even "reasonable" doubt


The analysis is not the basis for the questions about them ... it just confirmed what seemed obvious to me and to many others about the misleading nature of their claims. Regardless of any doubt that you may have ... it's clear to me that their site contains a great deal of misleading and inaccurate information. You can do your own research though and I suspect that the more you learn about mattress materials and the industry in general and Essentia in particular the more likely you would be to see the same picture.

But let's assume that Essentia foam is petroleum based memory foam. Think what you are asking me to believe. You want me to believe that this business was founded on a blatant lie that is easily disproved. And not only was this allowed, but the company has been continuing to grow for years - even with an A- BBB rating. ..while at the same time, in a reply to me in another thread, stating that you think that industries can do a good job of regulating themselves.


I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm telling you what I believe and the reasons why. I think this thread and the one I linked to earlier contains more than enough information about Essentia for anyone to make up their own minds in any way they may choose. I think the main page of the site provides an overview that deals with most of the rest of your comments and questions about the industry (and how truthful and accurate much of the information that consumers are exposed to really is) and what I believe are the solutions to them.

IMO, the solutions already exist in the dozens of smaller and local manufacturers and better sleep shops that exist across the country. The reason for this site ... and others ... is to play a role in giving consumers the resources they need to know how to tell the difference between bogus stories and factual information and to help them find the outlets that really are dedicated to quality, service, value, and transparency and helping people make better choices with their money.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read this post first.
Last Edit: 25 Apr 2012 14:31 by Phoenix.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Apr 2012 14:40 #17 by yogiyoda

I think what you are doing is helping lots of people. I know from experience that the major mattress manufactures and chains are making and selling some really poor quality mattresses for too much money. What your doing is helping people make better decisions.

But that being said, either Essentia is telling enough of the truth to make a reasonable case for their more concrete statements, or there is something wrong with the system that needs fixed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Apr 2012 16:50 #18 by Phoenix

Hi Yogiyoda,

But that being said, either Essentia is telling enough of the truth to make a reasonable case for their more concrete statements, or there is something wrong with the system that needs fixed.


This is exactly my point. Essentia has not made a reasonable case for their "extraordinary" claims and even some of their their own information contradicts their own claims or other public information that can be validated. If someone claims to make "latex memory foam" ... doesn't it make sense to you that this claim could be validated if such a thing doesn't exist anywhere else? Doesn't it make sense if the materials in their mattress appears by any reasonable standard of measurement to include the very things they are denigrating ... that they should provide some evidence of the accuracy of their claims rather than just playing on people's desire to buy something "green" or "healthy" with no evidence to back up? Their claims are based on "believe what we are telling you" but have no substance in many cases.

This doesn't mean that their materials are "bad" or "unhealthy" or "unsafe", only that they are not accurately described and that people are buying their mattresses based on information that is in many cases clearly misleading and contradictory. There are many people who believe what they most "want" to believe and don't have the knowledge to validate what is being said. This is common in the industry at all levels and is one of the main reasons for this site.

The "burden of proof" shouldn't be on consumers but on the manufacturers ... especially in an industry where false claims and misleading information is endemic.

If they have a reasonable case ... let them make it based on facts that can be verified. "Believe what I am telling you because we are good people and can be trusted" IMO is not a reasonable case in this and many other industries. Buying on the beliefs or approval of others that are uninformed or misled is also not "making a case". It only goes to show how easy it is to mislead people.

This is not just an "Essentia" issue ... even though they are more blatant than many others ... it is an industry wide issue.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read this post first.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Apr 2012 21:38 #19 by koala

yogiyoda wrote: Hmm, I just re-read the above. Seems in my haste to make a point, I may have accidentally inferred that you were naive and also that you believed in pure laizze-faire capitalism. /


I honestly stopped reading about halfway through your last post, but this made me chuckle.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 May 2012 22:03 #20 by budgy

If that test is indeed of a sample of Essentia's 'natural memory foam' then it is quite clear that it is far from natural.

If we choose to validate the idea that petrochemicals are 'natural' then realistically everything in the world is natural. And the whole idea loses all of its meaning. I do understand the sentiment behind the remark itself too. But I would much sooner say that crude oil is 'natural', petrochemicals are not; they are refined through incredibly complex human guided processes and nature does not have much to do with it.

Other manufacturers do not get away with calling polyurethane foams natural, yet alone organic. If this is the case with Essentia they deserve to be called out for it. And it would cost them very little in the long run to have their natural claims verified if they are indeed true. Why they have not done so yet really only emboldens the skepticism regarding their claims.

As with all big questions, the burden of proof lies on those that make the bold claims.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2012 01:09 #21 by yogiyoda

Don't have much time to reply. But a couple points. Was in email contact with Essentia. The representative sent me a picture of the mattress's tags. They are Canadian tags and simply listed the inner contents as "Natural Latex Memory Foam". They use a kevlar "sock" wrapper as a fire barrier. I was told that mattresses sold in the US ship from Canada with the same tag. The rep states that the "Memory Foam" is really a slow-release latex with contents listed on the website and that the "Memory Foam" label is just for marketing. IF (and that's a big if) the previous lab-report is correct, I'm surprised that none of Essentia's competitors have called them out on their claims. Seems like some truth in advertising law would be broken here. And seems like their claims would be easy to confirm or disprove.

FYI - I previously haven't cared for latex toppers and mattresses before. Too firm and bouncy for my taste. Tried a PLB in a store for the first time this weekend. Felt pretty good. More cush, less bounce.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2012 02:08 - 25 Jan 2016 17:43 #22 by Phoenix

Hi yogiyoda,

This is an official list of what is allowed to be listed on a law label in the US. You will notice that "Natural Latex Memory foam" is not one of the approved ingredients (probably because there is no such thing). I'll let you draw your own conclusions :)

It would be great to post the pictures of the law tags here.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read this post first.
Last Edit: 25 Jan 2016 17:43 by Phoenix.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2012 09:49 #23 by yogiyoda

See attached...

Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2012 16:40 #24 by budgy

Usually law tags in Canada will list different types of foam on the law label. IE: These beds do have a normal natural rubber/latex core, I would have thought the law label would list natural rubber or natural latex in addition to that layer. I suspect that they simply combined the two different layers into one, Memory Foam, Natural Latex. Anyway, there is not a lot of actual policing on what ends up on law tags.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2012 18:10 - 08 May 2012 18:12 #25 by Phoenix

Hi yogiyoda,

You can see the layering of the Energie Opus here.

As you can see ... it is composed of 3" of what they call 5.25 lb natural memory foam and 5" of Dunlop latex. The title on the pdf you listed says it is a US law tag which means that it is clearly non compliant with US standards because "Natural latex memory foam" is not an allowable ingredient on a mattress tag. Quebec (where they are based) also has similar requirements and it doesn't appear to me to be compliant there either (although I don't know the specifics for Quebec). Even if their law tag was somehow compliant in Canada ... it clearly isn't an accurate description of the mattress layers as Budgy mentioned and is IMO another part of the misleading information they provide. Even if they are "combining" what are clearly two separate ingredients in their law label ... neither of them are described properly.

Even the format of the label doesn't appear to be compliant with US law although it does appear to be a Canadian label and not a US one (in spite of what they told you).

Again I will let you draw your own conclusions about the clear and apparent contradiction between the label you posted and the mattress' description on the site (I notice that they simply say "natural memory foam" rather than "natural latex memory foam" on the site description although that too would need to be proven in terms of it's accuracy because I don't believe there is such a thing as "natural" memory foam with or without latex). Slow recovery latex is one thing while memory foam is a completely different animal. "Natural" is also one of those terms that can often mean whatever someone wants it to mean and by itself says little.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read this post first.
Last Edit: 08 May 2012 18:12 by Phoenix.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.