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Denver Mattress Snowmass vs. Ultimate Dreams

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19 Aug 2012 02:31 #1 by txtones
This forum is so helpful...thanks!

We recently tried the Snowmass Plush King at Denver Mattress and liked it. What we didn't care for was the hard-line corporate sales approach of Furniture Row. I also wonder about their products...durability, warranty, etc. I have found that a latex with a softer layer on top (memory foam or something like the Pure Bliss slow response latex topper) is the best combination for us.

Ultimate Dreams on Amazon has some amazing prices on latex, but I couldn't find any information about the makeup of the latex. Since we prefer a softer mattress (we are both side sleepers), I was looking at the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress - King Size Ultra Plush - Brooklyn Bedding and the Ultimate Dreams Eurotop Latex Mattress - Dreamfoam Bedding... both same companies, right?

Would the Ultimate Dreams Eurotop Latex Mattress - Dreamfoam Bedding found on Amazon fit the bill since it has a zippered top cover? How similiar in feel would it be to the Snowmass Plush King at Denver Mattress? Or, would we be better off getting a topper and a mattress like the Ultra Plush

What about being able to flip a mattress? I know from experience that it helps me and makes the bed last longer. Are either one of the Ultimate Dream mattresses able to be flipped? Some of the online latex stores offer this and others don't...

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19 Aug 2012 04:33 - 09 May 2013 14:49 #2 by Phoenix
Hi txtones,

Both of these mattresses you are mentioning are good value but they are also quite different.

Ultimate Dreams on Amazon has some amazing prices on latex, but I couldn't find any information about the makeup of the latex. Since we prefer a softer mattress (we are both side sleepers), I was looking at the Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress - King Size Ultra Plush - Brooklyn Bedding and the Ultimate Dreams Eurotop Latex Mattress - Dreamfoam Bedding... both same companies, right?


Brooklyn Mattress (the owner of the Dreamfoam brand) is a member of this site which means that I believe they are among the best quality/value in the country. The detailed descriptions of each mattress are in the Amazon listings. Of course their membership also means that they offer a bonus to members of the forum (in their case a shredded latex pillow).

Their Ultimate dreams is 3" of Talalay latex over a 5.5" polyfoam support core (2.35 lbs density) and 1.5" of quilting foam.

Their Natural latex mattress uses 3" of Dunlop latex over the same support core and quilting foam and adds wool in the quilting for fire retardency and breathability.

Finally their Eurotop uses 3" of Talalay over a thicker 8" polyfoam support core and the same 1.5" quilting.

All of them can be customized to be softer or firmer in the comfort layer so in this they are different from the Snowmass which only comes in a standard configuration. The Ultimate Dreams and the natural latex model are a tight top where your choice is part of the finished mattress and can't be changed. The Eurotop has a zip cover so that for a small fee the top layer can be exchanged for a softer or firmer layer.

So all of these would be latex hybrids and they are also very good at helping their customers make the most appropriate choices. Besides the regular custom choices ... they will also customize the quilting pattern of the quilting layer for a slightly more fine tuned choice.

There is lots of feedback on the forum from various members that have purchased them and a search on Ultimate Dreams (you can just click this) may be helpful.

How similiar in feel would it be to the Snowmass Plush King at Denver Mattress? Or, would we be better off getting a topper and a mattress like the Ultra Plush


This is difficult if not impossible to say or "quantify" because they are layered quite differently so different people would perceive the differences in different ways based on body shape and sleeping positions. The Snowmass uses 2" of 24 ILD latex over 6" of 32 ILD Talalay latex over 2" of polyfoam and has an inch of polyfoam in the quilting. The Ultimate Dreams on the other hand uses 3" of Talalay latex in the comfort layer so if you chose the same ILD as the Snowmass comfort layer it would feel a bit softer (thicker layers are softer in the same material). It also has a slightly thicker quilting which may also make it a bit softer and the support layers are also different. Of course if you chose a different ILD for the Ultimate Dreams comfort layer then you could also make it either softer or firmer while the Snowmass only comes in one version..

Because they have much more experience with matching their mattresses to different customers ... their recommendations would be the most accurate of all and they do a good job at this so it would be helpful to call them and ask which they think may be the closest match. Like all the manufacturers ... they are the "best" expert on the feel and performance of their mattresses and on which is the best match for the different body types and sleeping positions of different people.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 09 May 2013 14:49 by Phoenix.

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24 Aug 2012 06:13 #3 by txtones
Unfortunately, the link for Ultimate Dreams didn't work...

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24 Aug 2012 11:46 - 09 May 2013 14:51 #4 by Coventry

Unfortunately, the link for Ultimate Dreams didn't work...


In the upper right hand corner of this website there is a search box and if you type in "Ultimate Dreams" it will search the forums for threads where the Ultimate Dreams was mentioned. Let me see if I can get that link to work, here is the information in a link .
Last edit: 09 May 2013 14:51 by Phoenix. Reason: link fixed

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24 Aug 2012 13:24 - 20 Oct 2013 23:36 #5 by Phoenix
Hi txtones,

I fixed the link in the post (the "http" was doubled up) ... sorry about that :)

There are actually two searches on the site. The one Coventry mentioned (very top right of the page) only searches the main site pages (not the forum) and returns links to the pages that contain the search term. The forum search (the top right tab on the forum) only searches the forum and you can decide on whether you just want to search thread titles or the full posts themselves. You can also decide how many results you want per page. The advantage of this one is that it shows the full text of every individual post that contains the search term rather than just the page title of the thread so you can quickly scan or read every post that has your search term without having to click on a topic link and then go through the whole thread to find all the instances of your term.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 20 Oct 2013 23:36 by Phoenix.

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25 Aug 2012 19:48 #6 by TheSleeplessCat

Phoenix wrote: Hi txtones,


Their Ultimate dreams is 3" of Talalay latex over a 5.5" polyfoam support core (2.35 lbs density) and 1.5" of quilting foam.

Their Natural latex mattress uses 3" of Dunlop latex over the same support core and quilting foam and adds wool in the quilting for fire retardency and breathability.


excellent posts, I have a question regarding the use of the Dunlop latex vs the Talalay. As I understand it, Talalay is an airier latex/foam that goes through a different finishing process than Dunlop which is a denser foam/latex. I understand that this makes Dunlop more resilient which in turn makes it more firm. Does this mean it offers greater support? I'm stuck between these two materials with this mattress. Any other pro's and cons?

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25 Aug 2012 21:14 - 09 Jan 2019 13:37 #7 by Phoenix
Hi TheSleeplessCat,

As I understand it, Talalay is an airier latex/foam that goes through a different finishing process than Dunlop which is a denser foam/latex.


This is exactly correct. Talalay in the same ILD as Dunlop will be less dense (will weigh less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material) because it has more air in it. This is the basis for the angel food cake vs the pound cake analogy.

Talalay is also more open celled than Dunlop and would be more breathable.

I understand that this makes Dunlop more resilient which in turn makes it more firm. Does this mean it offers greater support?


Resilience is a measure of how high a steel ball dropped on a material will bounce expressed as a percentage of it's original height. It is somewhat opposite to hysteresis which is how much energy it absorbs (called hysteresis). Both Talalay and Dunlop are highly resilient but Talalay has greater resilience (a ball will bounce higher) and springs back more powerfully while Dunlop has less hysteresis (it absorbs less energy overall but it doesn't decompress as strongly). The biggest difference between them is what is called compression modulus. This is a measure of how quickly a foam gets firmer as it is compressed more. ILD is generally (but not always) a measure of how much weight it takes to compress a foam by 25% of it's thickness. At compression depths less than this Dunlop will be softer (compress more with the same weight) while at compression depths more than this Dunlop will be firmer (compress less with the same weight). They have a different response curve in other words and since Dunlop gets firmer faster than Talalay ... even though the different response curves may cross at the 25% compression level ... beyond this Dunlop will not compress as much as Talalay which is why it is generally considered more supportive or "firmer". Another way to say this is that Dunlop starts off softer and then ends up (at compression levels more than 25%) firmer than Talalay.

This is also part of the reason that Talalay is considered to be more "springy" or "lively" than Dunlop because you will generally sink in deeper which means there is more up and down "movement" or "ride" with Talalay and it springs back more strongly and quickly. This creates a different "feel" between the two materials and is also why Talalay is often considered to be more pressure relieving than Dunlop because it allows for a deeper cradle in the same ILD ... while Dunlop is considered to be more supportive because it doesn't compress as deeply with greater weight ... all else (including ILD) being equal of course. Some people will prefer the feel of one over another and because each has different firmness levels available ... one is not "necessarily" better than another in either pressure relief or support layers if the right layering or ILD is chosen for each ... but you may need to choose a softer ILD with Dunlop than with Talalay to get similar pressure relief in the comfort layers or a firmer Talalay vs Dunlop to get similar levels of support in the support layers. A "one step" difference in ILD which would be about 4 - 5 ILD would be "in the range" for most people where they felt similar.

This video may also be helpful to give you some visual cues about the difference between them.

There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .

Don't forget that the layer you are choosing is the comfort layer and that the support layers or "deep support" of both use the same high-density polyfoam. The comfort layers have a primary role of pressure relief and only have a "secondary" support role which is to fill in the gaps in the body profile.

I know it's difficult to describe what is really a subjective preference but hopefully, this will help you "imagine" how each may feel without having direct comparative experience with both.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 09 Jan 2019 13:37 by Phoenix. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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25 Aug 2012 21:53 #8 by TheSleeplessCat
You sir are a fount of information! Thank you for that response it really helped me with my decision.

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07 Jul 2018 14:01 #9 by mikej7
This is the most useful description of the differences I've seen yet. I keep finding contradictory information online (typically put out by manufacturers of beds that want to praise the benefits of their particular type of latex, it seems), and this is the most comprehensive description I've seen to really help me understand the pros/cons of each. Thank you!

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08 Jul 2018 15:57 #10 by Phoenix
Hi mikej7.

To manage your postings with similar questions and to make it easier to follow and reference the information you provide and any questions you may have down the road, I'll compile and move your postings into to the present thread but before doing this ... I'll wait a while longer just in case the shubox56 returns to answer your question.

Welcome to our forum! :)

You are at a good starting point with asking the right questions about the differences in feel of various materials. Along with Post #7 that describes the main differences in feel between Talalay and Dunlop Latex, but if you ... like many other people looking for a new mattress are used to a spring or memory foam mattress I'd suggest that along with some "theory at a distance" you do some local testing to "compare and contrast" different foams and mattress types based on your needs and preferences. I'd also make sure to have a look at the differences between latex and other types of foam in Post #2 here for latex vs memory foam comparison and in Post #2 here which has some pros and cons of latex vs polyfoam.

As far as contradictory information goes... I wish that there were more people such as you that have a more balanced approach and tend to put two and two together and see behind the marketing talk. You are correct that there is a great deal of lack of relevant information and misleading “marketing speak” that does not provide all the knowledge that a consumer would need to have to make an informed choice in terms of the suitability of a product or to make meaningful quality/value comparisons with other mattresses, and while you seem to have done quite a bit of reading since you found our site just in case you missed something ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps, more importantly, know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

Good luck with your testing and search!
Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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