TOPIC:

Hello,

I'm new to this site and have been reading up the past few weeks before trying to go out and buy my first mattress. My wife and I just got married recently and we're currently surviving on a fold out couch but would love to find our first comfy bed mattress together. I read up on all the steps from your articles and had gone to a couple large box stores like Sleep Train, etc to just get an idea of what the different beds felt like.

Today we went to a small local mom and pop mattress shop and they carried Organimattress (?), and Pure Latex Bliss brands.

The organic beds were in the 5000 range for a King Bed and way out of our price and budget. So we started to take a look at the pure Latex bliss models. Tried to follow your guide, went and slept around on all the models looking at how I sank in, the pressure points, how much support there was for my body and lower back, how straight my body, and how my body responded

A little quick information about myself:
- 5'9 around 195 lbs with a very heavy middle area and mostly a back sleeper
- Wife is 5'3, 120-130 ish and is a side and back sleeper

Before marriage, I slept on an old hand me down mattress and it was really hard and firm. Definitely not a coil based mattress. I don't know what it was but i loved it. It felt great for my lower back and wouldn't be in pain. Sometimes if i go to hotels, my lower back hurts from sinking in so much.

I wanted to ask for some advice on what to do next:
1) The model that I felt like I enjoyed the most was the Pamper Model Firm Synthetic 8 inches of talalay latex which consists of 2 inches activefusion climate control latex and 6 inches of natural talalay latex support core

Other top contenders were:
1) Pamper Model Firm All Natural - 1 inch pressure relieving natural talalay latex + 6 inches latex support core + 1 inch latex base firm layer (8 inches)
2) Pamper Model Med All Natural (10 inches) - 3 inch natural talalay latex + 6 inches talalay latex support core + 1 inch latex firm base layer
3) Pamper Model Med Synthetic (10 inches) - 2 inches climate control latex, 2 inches talalay latex, 6 inches support core

These 3 models i wasn't exactly sure, but felt my middle section less support than the first model.

I guess my one biggest fear is that i do have a heavy bottom / mid section and I am scared that i'll choose the wrong model in the end where my lower back will start to ache, or I choose the 8 inch one where it is firm enough for my mid section but causes unexpected pain to other parts of my body. How can i really know that this is the bed right for me?

Also, the 8 inch model of synthetic latex 20% blend, for a king size, is at 2699 retail price. Is that the expected amount to pay for a good investment into a bed for my back?

Would you have any other recommendations / models / stores that you would recommend I take a look at or try?

Thanks again for all your help. I could really use your guidance.

-Eric

Hi ErikuTamu,

The organic beds were in the 5000 range for a King Bed and way out of our price and budget.

In many cases "organic" mattresses are a buzzword for expensive. I'm guessing these were OrganicPedic (OMI) and while they are very good quality and I know from personal experience can be very comfortable ... they are not particularly good value. The latex in the mattresses also isn't organic (its 100% natural Talalay and there isn't any organic Talalay). They are also significantly more than many mattresses that use similar materials made by other manufacturers.

The Pure Latex bliss mattresses also use good quality materials but they can also be significantly more than other latex mattresses. They have an "all natural" line which uses 100% natural Talalay (like the OMI) and also a "natural" line that uses blended Talalay. They also use a stretch knit cover rather than the wool quilted cover that is used in the OMI.

1) The model that I felt like I enjoyed the most was the Pamper Model Firm Synthetic 8 inches of talalay latex which consists of 2 inches activefusion climate control latex and 6 inches of natural talalay latex support core

This would be the new version of the "natural" Pamper. It is their firmest mattress and many people that buy this add a topper for extra pressure relief but of course this depends on the body type, sleeping positions, ad personal preferences of each individual. This is basically an 8" blended talalay latex mattress.

1) Pamper Model Firm All Natural - 1 inch pressure relieving natural talalay latex + 6 inches latex support core + 1 inch latex base firm layer (8 inches)

This is basically the same mattress but uses the more costly 100% natural Talalay instead of the blended talalay (or the active fusion Talalay). You can read more about the differences between the different types of latex in this article along with post #6 here and post #6 her e. While the 100% natural Talalay is more natural than the blend ... in lower ILD's (softer) ... it is also less durable than the blend. They feel very similar.

2) Pamper Model Med All Natural (10 inches) - 3 inch natural talalay latex + 6 inches talalay latex support core + 1 inch latex firm base layer

This would actually be the "all natural" Nature model which has a 2" soft top layer with a 1" firmer layer under this and then the 6" support core with the 1" stabilization layer at the bottom.

3) Pamper Model Med Synthetic (10 inches) - 2 inches climate control latex, 2 inches talalay latex, 6 inches support core

This is the "natural" (meaning blended talalay) version of the Nature.

These 3 models i wasn't exactly sure, but felt my middle section less support than the first model.

The Pamper uses a slightly firmer support core and becvause the comfort layer is also thinner it will "stop" the heavier hips/pelvis from sinking down as far. The tradeoff is that there would be less pressure relief because of the thinner comfort layer. This would typically be more apparent for side sleepers.

I guess my one biggest fear is that i do have a heavy bottom / mid section and I am scared that i'll choose the wrong model in the end where my lower back will start to ache, or I choose the 8 inch one where it is firm enough for my mid section but causes unexpected pain to other parts of my body. How can i really know that this is the bed right for me?

If you are in doubt ... I would go with a firmer version because you can always add softer toppers to a mattress that is too firm for good pressure relief but you can't really 'fix" a mattress that is too soft in the support layers or where the comfort layers are too thick and soft. In other words you can always add layers for softness but you can't remove or change layers that are already part of the mattress (at least with the PLB because many smaller manufacturers are able to do this when necessary). the most important part is to spend at least 15 minutes (completely relaxed as ifyou were going to sleep) on every mattress you are seriously considering to test specifically for pressure relief and for support and alignment. Pressure relief is fairly easy to test for and this article may help in your testing but support/alignment is more difficult to test for and this article and post #11 here may help with this as well.

Would you have any other recommendations / models / stores that you would recommend I take a look at or try?

If you let me know your city or zip I'd be happy to let you know of any possibilities in your area I'm aware of in your area.

Thanks again for all your help. I could really use your guidance.

You may have read this already but the best guidance I could provide would be to make sure you have read post #1 here and the information it links to. The most important part of finding your best mattress can be to connect with the merchants that have the knowledge and experience and integrity to help you make the most suitable choices for your body types and sleeping positions and have the quality, value, and service that you are looking for.

There isn't a "formula" that can choose a mattress based on "theory at a distance" that is more accurate than your own personal testing along with the help of knowledgeable and experienced people. Your own testing is always the most accurate way to make sure that a mattress you are looking at has good pressure relief and provides good support/alignment. Of course all your other preferences (see post #46 here ) and the price, benefits, and services of the merchant you are dealing with will also play a significant role in deciding which mattress best matches your "value equation".

Phoenix

Hi phoenix

Thank you for all your information.

We live in Cupertino, ca 95014. Which stores or possible other brands would you recommend that is similar to the eight inch natural pamper model

Hi Parran,

The better options and possibilities in your area that I'm aware of are in the San Jose list in post #2 here .

I don't recommend brands because the materials in a mattress are more important than the label that is on it but there are some good value options and manufacturers there and a few calls describing what you have tested will quickly let you know what they have that may be similar. It may also be worthwhile testing other latex combinations (either all latex or in combination with other components) to see which you preferred.

I would treat the PLB Pamper as the best you have tried "so far" in terms of its feel and performance but I would leave the door open to the possibility that some other mattresses may be better yet and not use the Pamper as your final "target". Other options may be better yet both in terms of feel and performance as well as value.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I just had a quick question. I've been trying to research the ILD numbers for the two layers but haven't found anything for the new 8 inch model.

I did find the All natural model specs:
PLB - Pamper
LatexBLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric
LatexBLISS Milliken?s Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
1" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex 40 ILD
1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex
8" Mattress Height
9" Steel Foundation
17" Overall Mattress & Foundation
20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10

I was wondering if you could direct me to a site that might have that info?

Also, just an update, i've been calling around the stores you recommended that are within visiting distance. I hope to try out a couple more beds this weekend.

I can't thank you enough for this website and your help in this process!

Thanks
-Eric

Hi ErikuTamu,

I was wondering if you could direct me to a site that might have that info?

I don't know of any site that publishes the specs of the new Pure latex bliss lineup. The specs you listed are actually the old version of the "natural" rather than the "all natural" Pamper.

The new Pamper uses 2" of Active Fusion Fast Response over a 6" base layer and if I had to guess the base layer would still be 40 ILD. Since the the Active fusion fast response (what Latex International calls Talalay GL fast response ) comes in either 15, 21, or 27 ILD, my guess is the top 2" would be 21 ILD.

Also, just an update, i've been calling around the stores you recommended that are within visiting distance. I hope to try out a couple more beds this weekend.

I'm looking forward to any feedback you may have with any of the merchants and manufacturers in the list. All of it will be valuable for others that are in the same area.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

After a couple trips up and down the bay area, i finally completed my in-store trials.

Here's some of the places that I went to:

1) www.foamorder.com

- Located in San Francisco. Really nice and knowledgeable sales people. Was able to recommend different combinations to try versus the Pure Latex Bliss Pamper model. I actually fell in love with a organisense 9 inch model they had. It felt possibly the best bed I tried in all the stores. Showroom had a a very good display of their latex products in different soft - firm combinations. They were also very patient, didn't bug me a bit as I slept on different beds that lasted well over 1 hour

2) www.baybed.com/faq.php

- Located in Santa Cruz and an underground mattress partner. I didn't get to meet Dan the owner, but Will who was there was also very knowledgeable. They had less latex models available on showing but able to custom make and with a 30 day custom trial and adjust to perfection policy, I dont know what else could beat it. Also, very competitive prices too for their products. Only down side, was they were a little far away Very friendly and also let me try as long as I wanted.

3) www.nosca.org/index.html

- Small local store located in Burlingame. The sales rep there was not familiar with the beds and I had to wait for Howard the owner to return back to the store to talk more about the actual products. They had a small selection of beds to try and mostly the Pure Latex Bliss brands. One small disappointing thing about my experience, when I asked about some of the products that I was trying, he didn't mention much about the material, ILD, construction etc ... He kept on emphasizing the fact that buying one of their their beds would mean that it could be applied to Flex Spending. So it was more of a pitch about the costs of their products versus actually helping me understand and find the right bed. It was definitely much more better experience with the first two places listed above.

4) www.daxstores.com/organic-mattresses.html San Carlos.

- Tried contacting them through email and no response after a week. Then decided to call them and learnt that they actually dont have a location to try out their beds. However, a bed retailer in Berkeley was carrying some of their products and it was just too out of the way to go up north again. In the end, was not able to try them.

Phoenix, i can't thank you enough. Learnt so much about mattresses in the past few weeks. I think I'll be ordering from bay beds in the end cause of their ability to custom fix the mattress till it's just right. I plan to create a latex bed, 9 inches, with a 6 inch core at 44. Then a comfort layer at 3 inches at 28. They were recommending that I should change the comfort layer to 3 layers of 1 inch so I can adjust it more in the future. What would you recommend?


Thanks
-Eric




Thanks
-Eric

Hi ErikuTamu,

Thanks for providing such great feedback about some of the options on the San Francisco list.

For some reason I didn't even realize (although I should have because it's mentioned right on their site) that Dax Stores was online only and I've removed them from the list (which is meant to be a list of local bricks and mortar manufacturers and retailers).

I have also talked with Howard at Nosca and I'm somewhat surprised that he put so much focus on the flex spend benefits over "educating" you about the mattresses and which may be a better "fit" for your specific needs and preferences. Like you, I think the quality, value, and suitability of a mattress should come before these types of benefits although their house brand in particular does have good quality and value (and with a prescription is available without a fire barrier). With a local purchase ... comfort specs like ILD are not as important (because your own testing will tell you more about whether the layering is "right" for you) but the process of helping you make good choices based on more than just an emphasis on price or temporary benefits alone is the most important part of a mattress purchase IMO. I think that comparing for "value" or any "value bonuses" is the last step in the process.

Phoenix, i can't thank you enough. Learnt so much about mattresses in the past few weeks. I think I'll be ordering from bay beds in the end cause of their ability to custom fix the mattress till it's just right. I plan to create a latex bed, 9 inches, with a 6 inch core at 44. Then a comfort layer at 3 inches at 28. They were recommending that I should change the comfort layer to 3 layers of 1 inch so I can adjust it more in the future. What would you recommend?

As you know ... I think highly of Dan at BayBed and I think they are a great choice. It's also true that several thinner layers provides some extra flexibility in terms of adjusting both the softness and the thickness of the comfort layers which can allow for levels of fine tuning that wouldn't be possible otherwise and if a manufacturer has this option available and recommends it based on their own experience with their mattresses ... then I would go with their suggestion. Extra options are always good if there is no down side to them

Thanks again for your very informative feedback.

Phoenix

Just put in the order with Dan and will have it when we come back from our Holidays in the new year.

I remember another couple key things for my mattress investment, is a matching foundation and a good mattress protector. I bought the mattress foundation from Dan too.

Phoenix, is there any mattress protectors that you recommend ?

Hi ErikuTamu,

Congratulations on your new mattress

As you know I think you made a great choice and I'm looking forward to your feedback when you've had a chance to sleep on it after the new year.

There are several tradeoffs involved in the choice between different types mattress protectors and post #89 here talks about the pros and cons of each type and some links to some of the better choices for each.

Dan may also have some mattress protector options that he recommends as well.

Phoenix