TOPIC:

Hi Phoenix,

In my research for a natural latex mattress, I came across your mattress forum and since you seem very knowledgeable, I would like to ask your opinion.
I want to order a 100% natural latex chemical free mattress a.s.a.p. and by that I mean as natural as possible with no chemicals and synthetic materials, if possible. I want 6" Dunlop latex + 2" talalay latex, all natural, as I said, covered in quilted organic cotton with a layer of organic wool underneath.
I narrowed down my options to SleepEZ, Plushbeds, European Sleep works. The last one sent me some certifications about their product, they seemed great, but they have higher prices. The first two have more attractive prices. I spoke with both and I did not quite like Plushbeds - too aggressive for me (plus their $1000 off, act fast, offer ends soon blah, blah, blah..). SleepEZ seems the winner, so far.
I've read many postings on your mattress forum and I've seen that you think that they are among the best of the best... is that right? That helps, I feel a little relief in all this nightmare.
But... they do not provide any certifications related to the quality of their product. After I've read their consumers' guide and FAQ section, I am under the impression that all talalay latex is blended, this is what the talalay process means. So, is it or is it not possible to have talalay latex made of 100% natural rubber and not blended with any synthetic one? Is their 100% natural talalay latex true natural or is it blended with synthetic latex?
Same question about the Dunlop latex. It says that before the WW2, it used to be made out of 100% natural latex, then they started mixing it with synthetic... these days, what they claim to be 100% natural is it indeed 100% natural, or it;s got some synthetic latex in it (and if yes, how can I know the percentage?).
I am looking at SleepEZ 9 " ORGANIC LATEX MATTRESS, which in theory, it consist of Organic Cotton Cover Quilted to 100% Wool, 2" 100% Natural Talalay Latex, 6" 100% Natural Dunlop Latex.
In your opinion, is it indeed 100% natural latex, free of chemicals with no synthetic latex blended in it, or that is not possible and it's just a game of words? How come the blended version is just a little less expensive that the "all natural one" (I would expect a higher difference, since natural latex is more expensive and in limited quantities in nature).
I talked with their latex provider Latexco West and they said they wouldn't be able to provide me any certifications but they could provide them to Shawn and I could get them from him. Also, if you look on Latexco webiste (or even on SleepEz website www.sleepez.com/suppliers.htm) it looks like all they do is blended. SleepComp website gets redirected to Latexco, too... weird... It's very confusing and frustrating.
Not to mention that I am going nuts not being able to find out anywhere on the web if there is a significant difference (quality wise) between latex from Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Thailand, India etc. Any idea here?

I would like to get my Talalay latex from Radium instead of Latex International, SleepEZ provides them both. What do you think, would that be a better option and 100% natural as I want it? Somehow I feel I could trust Radium more, but I could be wrong...

Please help, I feel lost and I have a lot of pressure at home to get my mattress like yesterday...

Thank you very much,
Laura

Hi laura_latex,

SleepEz is one of the members of this site which as you indicated means that I believe they are among the best of the best in the country yes. You can read more about why I recommend them and why I invited them to become members here .

A forum search on Berkeley Ergonomics (you can just click this) will bring up much more information about them and I also think highly of them and the mattresses they make.

A forum search on Plushbeds will also bring up more information about them and in essence I believe they are good quality mattresses but not in the "best" value range compared to the other choices that are available to the members here.

But... they do not provide any certifications related to the quality of their product. After I've read their consumers' guide and FAQ section, I am under the impression that all talalay latex is blended, this is what the talalay process means. So, is it or is it not possible to have talalay latex made of 100% natural rubber and not blended with any synthetic one? Is their 100% natural talalay latex true natural or is it blended with synthetic latex?

You can read more about the different types of latex (including talalay) in this article and in post #6 here along with post #6 here . Talalay can be made with either 100% natural latex or with a blend of natural rubber and synthetic rubber. Dunlop is the same (it can be either 100% natural or a blend of natural and synthetic). SleepEz carries 100% natural Talalay, blended Talalay, and 100% natural Dunlop (that uses either organic latex raw materials or just 100% natural raw materials).

All talalay latex is Oeko-Tex certified whether it is blended or 100% natural or made by Radium or latex international (the two main suppliers of Talalay latex). Their 100% Dunlop they use is also Oeko-Tex certified (and has other certifications as well).

Same question about the Dunlop latex. It says that before the WW2, it used to be made out of 100% natural latex, then they started mixing it with synthetic... these days, what they claim to be 100% natural is it indeed 100% natural, or it;s got some synthetic latex in it (and if yes, how can I know the percentage?).

Synthetic latex was developed before WW2 but it became more widely developed and used then because the allies lost their access to the natural rubber plantations in SE Asia and needed a replacement. Mattresses can use either natural, blended, or synthetic and knowing the blend ratio would depend on the information provided by the supplier of the latex. Better retailers or mattress manufacturers will provide you with this information.

I am looking at SleepEZ 9 " ORGANIC LATEX MATTRESS, which in theory, it consist of Organic Cotton Cover Quilted to 100% Wool, 2" 100% Natural Talalay Latex, 6" 100% Natural Dunlop Latex.

SleepEz has 3 different lines. In their organic line you can choose between 100% natural Talalay or the organic version of their 100% natural Dunlop in each layer.

In their regular line ... you can choose between blended Talalay or 100% natural Dunlop in each layer.

There are 4 different layering choices in each line (with a total of 6", 8", 9", or 12" of latex)

Their special uses 100% natural Talalay in the comfort layer and 100% natural Dunlop in the base layer. The cover is a stretch knit rather than wool quilted. There is a 6" and an 8" version.

All the information on their site is accurate as far as I know (and if any of it isn't they will tell you on a phone call).

In your opinion, is it indeed 100% natural latex, free of chemicals with no synthetic latex blended in it, or that is not possible and it's just a game of words? How come the blended version is just a little less expensive that the "all natural one" (I would expect a higher difference, since natural latex is more expensive and in limited quantities in nature).

100% natural latex is just that ... it contains all NR latex and no synthetic. They almost always have certifications such as Oeko-Tex which test for harmful chemicals and VOC's.

The difference in pricing reflects the difference in their material costs. If there was a bigger difference then the pricing difference would be larger. Questions about the reasons for the pricing of a specific merchant though would probably be best directed to them since this is a business decision that each manufacturer or merchant makes based on many factors.

Many manufacturers add a significant premium to certain materials (especially organic) knowing that people in the "organic market" that are looking for either natural or organic materials as a priority are often willing to pay a significant premium ... in some cases for questionable benefits. Other manufacturers will price their mattresses based more on their actual material cost and not add a premium to materials based on the willingness of a more specialized market to pay higher profit margins.

I talked with their latex provider Latexco West and they said they wouldn't be able to provide me any certifications but they could provide them to Shawn and I could get them from him. Also, if you look on Latexco webiste (or even on SleepEz website www.sleepez.com/suppliers.htm) it looks like all they do is blended. SleepComp website gets redirected to Latexco, too... weird... It's very confusing and frustrating.

Both Latexco and SleepEz provides both natural and blended latex. Latexco is also not the only provider that SleepEz uses. Latexco itself offers many different types of latex (their own and other manufacturers) but they are a wholesale supplier that normally only deals with or provides more specific information to manufacturers.

Not to mention that I am going nuts not being able to find out anywhere on the web if there is a significant difference (quality wise) between latex from Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Thailand, India etc. Any idea here?

I think that they would all be roughly comparable (assuming you are comparing 100% natural to 100% natural). There are year to year differences between different batches of rubber based on weather and growing conditions and different rubber tree clones are usually matched to the specific country and climates they are grown in to compensate for different conditions (just like grapes that are used for wine) but I personally wouldn't have a preference between countries. There are many good sources of Dunlop latex that originates in many different countries and variations in the formulations can also be used to change the properties of the latex.

I would like to get my Talalay latex from Radium instead of Latex International, SleepEZ provides them both. What do you think, would that be a better option and 100% natural as I want it? Somehow I feel I could trust Radium more, but I could be wrong...

I think that SleepEz's opinions would be much more valuable than my own because they can see the quality of any specific shipment and can tell you which they believe is the best at the moment for any particular type of latex. This may vary from shipment to shipment but I would trust their opinions (as well as the opinions of any of the other members of this site). Having said that they can use any type of latex that is available to them.

Please help, I feel lost and I have a lot of pressure at home to get my mattress like yesterday...

Post #1 here includes the steps that are the most effective way of choosing the most suitable mattress with the best possible quality and value that I know of.

Besides this ... the best advice I have is to test as many different mattresses or layering combinations locally as is necessary to get a reasonable idea of which works best for you and to talk with the different merchants or manufacturers that are most attractive to you (again either in person or on the phone). They are the ones who know all the details of their mattresses and can provide you with the best possible advice and suggestions that are specific to the mattresses they sell and which ones may best match your own needs and preferences.

IMO ... the knowledge and experience of who you buy from (either locally or on the phone) is just as important as the mattress you buy because they are the ones who can give you the best possible advice.

Phoenix

Laura - as a satisfied SleepEZ customer, I would suggest you "pull the trigger" on a SleepEZ Organic 9000 right away. You will not regret it - their generous return and layer exchange policies combined with free shipping, great customer service, and their extremely low pricing cannot be beat. You can choose each of the three layers for both the right and left side of your mattress. Plus, they have extensive experience in the business, not just in term of time, but in sales volume. They have seen what works and doesn't work. Their website may be schmaltzy, but their materials are pretty much as high quality as you can get. You could easily pay twice as much or more for a similar mattress. We have had our SleepEZ latex mattress since June and couldn't be happier. Unless you have some kind of extreme allergy or are ultra-sensitive and need to have your mattress made in a factory where the employees are forbidden from wearing any fragrances or using fabric softener on their clothes (omimattress.com), then SleepEZ's quality and purity of materials will more than fit the bill. Shawn from SleepEZ is really available for answering ANY questions about their products.
PS I am NOT a shill for SleepEZ!

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you very much for your answer. Very detailed, very informative and of course very helpful
I purchased the mattress I mentioned to you, yesterday from SleepEZ. The Dunlop latex is all natural but not organic. I decided that it should be enough ... although I had my mind set on "organic" before...
If the "all natural" version is Oko-Tex certified, and you say that their latex is... I am OK. I just trusted you and Shawn and did not inquire about any certifications anymore.
Thank you again for your mattress forum and answer.

Best Regards and A Happy Holiday Season!
Laura

Hi LAsleeper
Thank you very much for your input. I finally pulled the trigger yesterday and now I am waiting to see if I chose the right firmness
I do not have allergies or anything, but I wanted a comfortable mattress and as pure as you can get. For many years I slept on a memory foam mattress, that besides giving me sweats in the night is well known for off gassing (I think it is the most chemically treated in the market)... I am not sure if that was a cause for sleepless nights too, but I had many of them for a long time...
I happened to try an Organipedic mattress in a store near where I live - Los Gatos, at the Urban Sleep Store.
They seem nice and if there wasn't a $1000 difference compared to SleepEZ version, I would have probably gotten one...
I hope I will be happy with my purchase. For now, I am happy that the researching&purchasing nightmare came to an end.
I appreciate your input, thanks again for it!
All the Best,
Laura

Hi Laura_Latex,

Congratulations on your new mattress

I think you will be very happy with the quality and "safety" of the materials you chose.

I happened to try an Organipedic mattress in a store near where I live - Los Gatos, at the Urban Sleep Store.
They seem nice and if there wasn't a $1000 difference compared to SleepEZ version, I would have probably gotten one...

Bear in mind that OMI doesn't use organic latex in their mattresses either (there is no organic Talalay). It would be unusual to find an equivalent or roughly equivalent OMI mattress for only $1000 more (with about the same 9" of latex in it) because the difference is usually much more.

I hope you have a chance to give us your feedback when you've had the chance to sleep on your new mattress. I think you made a great choice!

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

And A Happy New Year! (a little late, but... I have been busy with the holidays and guests, did not get the chance to write earlier

It's been a month since I received my new latex mattress from SleepEZ, with your much appreciated help.
I've got a mattress with the following firmness levels (layers bottom to top): firm+medium+soft, as Shawn recommended. The Firm and Medium layers are 100% natural Dunlop and the Soft one is 100% natural Talalay.
I had previously purchased a mattress pad made of 100% organic cotton and filled with natural wool, 1.5 inches thick. I put this one on top of my mattress.
At first it seemed too soft, but I thought I should give it a try in this configuration for at least a week. I am about 5ft4" tall and 140 lbs and my husband is 6ft2" and 195 lbs. Initially, I though I should get my side (firm+medium+soft) and his side (extra firm+firm+medium), but he did not seem to care much, so I got it my way, just not to feel the seam in the middle.
We both thought it was too soft (and maybe the mattress pad had its contribution to it too) but we both seem to sleep well and wake up rested. We thought about changing the layers to adjust the firmness, but since we wake up with no pains... we gave up.
So, overall I am very happy with my purchase.
I still don't know if I should have got a different configuration, since it may soften over time, but for now, it's OK. What do you think?

Just for my own information, I would like to know why there isn't organic talalay latex since there is organic dunlop (since the raw material is the same). Is it because the talalay process cannot qualify as organic, or why?

Thank you very much,
Laura

Hi laura_latex,

Soft and firm has many different meanings and different people will "rate" a mattress in different ways.

It sounds to me like you have covered the two basic essentials in terms of softness and firmness in terms of both pressure relief and support alignment which are the two main functions of a mattress. Some people will call a mattress soft or firm based on the softness of the comfort layers and some will call it soft or firm based on the softness/firmness of the support layers and how far they sink in overall. Beyond the actual pressure relief and alignment though there is also the overall subjective "feel" of a mattress which is something different again and each person has their own idea of what "feels" soft or firm based on what they are used to.

Latex as well is very point elastic and conforming and much more elastic than polyfoam which can be "stiffer" so even in firmer layers this can lead some people perceiving latex as being 'softer" because it is more conforming. Others yet will feel it as feeling firmer because it has a higher compression modulus than polyfoam which means that as they sink in further it will become firmer faster than other materials.

Like all foam materials ... latex will soften over time (and there is an initial "break in" period but this takes longer than less durable materials. If you did want to make the mattress a little firmer you could always move the bottom firmer layer up to the middle of the mattress which would make both the comfort layer a little firmer as well as result in slightly reduced sinking down into the mattress as well.

It sounds to me like it may be either a matter of fine tuning or even just getting used to a different "feel" than what you are used to. I would probably leave it as it is because it seems to "fit" and you are sleeping well unless you want to experiment a bit with re-arranging layers just for the sake of knowing the difference.

Just for my own information, I would like to know why there isn't organic talalay latex since there is organic dunlop (since the raw material is the same). Is it because the talalay process cannot qualify as organic, or why?

There are probably many reasons for this but I think the main ones are probably economic vs any benefits that come from going through the certification process.

Dunlop latex is usually made locally close to the plantation and both of the "organic" Dunlop manufacturers have their own plantation and a manufacturing facility nearby. The two main Talalay producers are in Europe (Radium) and the US(Latex International) which means that they have to ship the raw materials to the factory.

Organic certification has many steps involved. First the plantation itself ... like any agricultural product ... has to go through a period of years to make sure that the farming methods are organic and that they are not close to any other farms that are using pesticides (even though pesticides aren't usually used in mature latex plantations). Because the two organic Dunlop producers own and have control over their own plantations, they would be in a better position to do this because they are smaller manufacturers. There probably isn't enough of a certified organic latex supply to supply either of the larger Talalay producers and this would also limit their supply sources to organic farms.

In addition to this ... the organic certification applies to every step of production so once the raw materials themselves are certified (and this can take years) ... then the transportation to the factory has to be certified making sure that there are no other materials that could "contaminate" the raw material in the supply chain and then the manufacturing process itself also has to be certified for the end product itself (the latex core) to be certified (instead of just the raw material used to make it). All of these involve time and expense and there are many who believe that the benefits aren't worth it because the material is essentially the same and of course there is only a limited supply of organically farmed latex.

So in essence it's probably a matter of the expense vs the benefits that they believe will come from it.

Thanks for your feedback and review

Phoenix