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Hi Phoenix,

Yesterday I went back to Sovn here in Dallas. From what I can tell, seems to be very high quality stuff from Berkeley Ergonomics. I used to love their 8" 100% latex, but now that I've tried latex at home, I realize even their "A" soft model isn't quite "snuggly" enough for me unless I also add the $1,000 topper. Even the softest was still quite firm and springy. And I'm learning that I do like a little more cush on top. But, I do need very good support underneath for my stomach sleeping.

I did have kind of a break through there yesterday. I really liked the Willow "C"- it's firmer honeycomb coils on the base and 2" of soft talalay latex on top (25ILD I believe). That seemed like maybe a good amount of firm support underneath, but soft enough on top. She did say that you can return for a 20% restocking, but no one ever does b/c you have 60 days for starters to adjust your bed slats & layers to find the right fit if you don't get it right initially. Even swap out the whole coil system for a different one or for latex, or softer/firmer top, etc.... And then supposedly they do not soften or sag. They have a 10 full warrantly for NO SAG. It's ~$3,400 for the king mattress with adjustable slats. Not cheap at all, but in the range with many of the Tempurpedics.

sovn.com/latex-mattresses/models

Willow
Where luxury and support come together
Søvn™ original inner-spring mattress, the Willow incorporates German carbon steel coils and 2" of natural latex foam cushioning. It has a luxurious, tactile feel yet offers substantial, orthopedically sound support.


1,240 innerspring coils
High quality German steel
Honeycombed for independent contouring
2" natural latex cushioning
Lightweight wool lining
High performance German stretch cotton cover
No turning or flipping
Characteristics
High contour
Firmer, more substantial feel
Noticeable support
Very low motion
Thermal-balanced

Hi Sleepless,

As you know I also like the design and the options of the Berkely Ergonomics mattresses. I should mention however that there is a range of pricing for the same mattresses around the country and the prices at Sovn are higher than most of the other BE retailers across the country (see post #12 here ).

One of the strengths of choices like this as you mentioned is that you can make adjustments after the fact. This is also one of the advantages of buying locally from many independent manufacturers who not only will make adjustments but have the knowledge to know what type of adjustments to make. These are all certainly superior to Tempurpedic mattresses from the point of view of value and quality of materials IMO and not subject to the same initial softening so what you test is what you actually sleep on beyond the first few weeks.

Did you try any of the microcoil options and if you did ... what did you think about them?

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix!

A few things in regard to your post---

You're correct that minimal to no softening/sagging i.e.-- feels the same after a month at home as day one is key for me! Almost all of my issues come from the fact that I am very happy with the mattress I choose initially- for a period of time it performs well and feels good. Then it gets mushy or sagging very quickly, no longer feels like what I picked, and starts the back pain. So, I truly love the idea of a mattress that doesn't do that to me. THAT is what I need! At first I thought I was just not picking properly, but the truth is that I am always very happy and without back pain for the first few months or even several months to a year. But then the feel of the bed changes and it's game over pretty quickly from there.

I did try one with the microcoils, and it was ok, but I didn't love it. Even the A model seemed pretty darn firm to me. Later, once I'd narrowed down to the Willow/Alpine "C"- we unzipped the one with the micro coils and I realized that it's only 1" of softer latex on top of the microcoils rather than 2", which likely explains why I preferred the Willow. As you know, while I need a firm base, I do really like a bit of cozy feel on top and 2" of latex is just a bit more cozy for me.

Lastly, you are exactly correct about the price! In fact, Sovn is pretty consistently about $700-1000 overpriced compared to other stores that sell Berkeley Ergonomics. In fact, that is one reason I did not buy from them previously. I was sort of put off by that. In fact, there are fewer than 10 stores around the country selling B.E. from what I can tell and I think I spoke to all of them about this time last year. And every single one of them was priced a good deal lower than Sovn. For example- Sovn has the "Willow" for $3500 king set with slats. Most of the others sell the same model "Alpine" for ~$2,800 or so. Perhaps it's time to start negotiating with them a little harder. Initially I thought that Sleep Works could sell for less since they are so close to B.E. in CA and minimal shipping costs, etc.. But- I've found places in NY, Ohio, and MA, that all sell the Willow/Apine for ~$2,800. So, it's not the additional freight cost from CA that makes it cost so much more in TX if it's still so much less in MA & NY! It's just Sovn tying up the market here and overcharging. Which is a point that needs to be addressed. Any ideas on how to negotiate with them?

I do definitely like their products from everything I've learned and I think I'd have faith in their long term performance. Again, I am a realist. I don't expect 10-20 years out of a mattress. But, I think a solid, happy five years for an expensive mattress is fair to expect! if B.E. could deliver a product that wont sag or mush on me in the next five to seven years, I'd be happy to pay them $2,800 for it.

I always appreciate your thoughts Phoenix and really enjoy learning from you! I feel like I have learned so much about mattresses! More than I ever wanted to know But, perhaps I can be of assistance to family and friends and save others from the same hassle and costly mistakes.

Hi Sleepless,

But- I've found places in NY, Ohio, and MA, that all sell the Willow/Apine for ~$2,800. So, it's not the additional freight cost from CA that makes it cost so much more in TX if it's still so much less in MA & NY! It's just Sovn tying up the market here and overcharging. Which is a point that needs to be addressed. Any ideas on how to negotiate with them?

I've seen the same so it clearly isn't shipping. What I'd do is first ask them directly to see what they say when shown the difference in prices ... with a printout if necessary ... and if they were still uncooperative I'd call Berkeley Ergonomics directly and address the issue with them. I'm sure they're not too happy either with a single outlet that is overcharging by so much as it certainly doesn't help their reputation. I would certainly make it clear that based on principle alone that they will lose a sale just because their local outlet is gouging (and yes I would use that term). Hopefully they would intervene or even offer to sell you a mattress directly as an exception.

I think that a solid 10 years or even much longer is more realistic if it uses high quality materials. There is no doubt in my mind that the materials they use would last that long and stay consistent in their feel over the long term however on principle alone I wouldn't pay the prices they are charging. Even the "good" BE prices are a fair bit more than equivalent mattresses using the same materials made elsewhere although the "premium" over other sources wouldn't be quite as high with the lower BE outlets as it would be there.

Phoenix

Phoenix wrote: Hi Sleepless,

But- I've found places in NY, Ohio, and MA, that all sell the Willow/Apine for ~$2,800. So, it's not the additional freight cost from CA that makes it cost so much more in TX if it's still so much less in MA & NY! It's just Sovn tying up the market here and overcharging. Which is a point that needs to be addressed. Any ideas on how to negotiate with them?

I've seen the same so it clearly isn't shipping. What I'd do is first ask them directly to see what they say when shown the difference in prices ... with a printout if necessary ... and if they were still uncooperative I'd call Berkeley Ergonomics directly and address the issue with them. I'm sure they're not too happy either with a single outlet that is overcharging by so much as it certainly doesn't help their reputation. I would certainly make it clear that based on principle alone that they will lose a sale just because their local outlet is gouging (and yes I would use that term). Hopefully they would intervene or even offer to sell you a mattress directly as an exception.

I think that a solid 10 years or even much longer is more realistic if it uses high quality materials. There is no doubt in my mind that the materials they use would last that long and stay consistent in their feel over the long term however on principle alone I wouldn't pay the prices they are charging. Even the "good" BE prices are a fair bit more than equivalent mattresses using the same materials made elsewhere although the "premium" over other sources wouldn't be quite as high with the lower BE outlets as it would be there.

Phoenix

Phoenix -

I'm sorry to bump an old thread, but this one is particularly relevant to my question. I've also been to Sovn in Dallas (wife and I both preferred the Aspen) and noticed the higher pricing through my online research (this site is fantastic, btw). It may mean that the BE mattresses are out of my price range.

You make the comment above that other manufacturers are producing similar quality mattresses (at least using similar quality materials) as BE. Who are they? Of particular interest to me is finding a good "clean" mattress - no chemicals, flame retardants, etc.

Thanks!

Adam

Hi aph7649,

I would keep in mind that Berkeley Ergonomics imports their springs and microsprings from Europe and also offers the ability to customize a mattress so the "value" of a mattress purchase from BE includes more than just the material value of the mattress.

I don't know of any online manufacturer or retailer that offers a similar design with pocket springs, latex, and a microcoil (assuming you are talking about their microcoil models and not their other mattresses) so it would depend on what was available in your area. A few examples of mattresses that include innersprings, microcoils, and latex (but are not the same design) are in post #19 here . You would need to call and talk with each manufacturer or retailer in your area to ask them if they carried any mattresses that fit the criteria you were looking for or do a search on the site of a wholesale manufacturer that made mattress you were interested in and if there were any local retailers that carried it in your area ... and then or course find out the rest of the layers.

Of course there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of "good clean mattresses" that use different designs or components depending on the specific materials or components you were interested in including in your criteria.

Phoenix

As of Jan 1st 2014, you can purchase mattresses directly from Berkeley Ergonomics (their Ontario California location) if you do not live close to a dealer.

Hi Back Sleeper,

Thanks for the heads up

That's good news for those that are looking for a BE mattress but don't have any dealers in the area.

Phoenix

Why does each store have different names for the BE mattresses?

Any idea how these compare to the Flexus Bodyprint beds?

Hi needanewmattress,

Why does each store have different names for the BE mattresses?

Many retail stores like to carry mattresses that have names that are unique to them because it can make direct comparisons with other stores that carry the same mattress and price matching more difficult.

Any idea how these compare to the Flexus Bodyprint beds?

The BE mattresses listed here that use a layer of latex on top of a single pocket coil (and that don't include microcoils in their design) would be in the same general category (pocket coil/latex hybrid) as the Flexus Body Print mattresses.

The differences between them would be in the specifics of the pocket coils in each one (gauge of coils, number of coils, number of turns, coil height, coil shape, nesting pattern), the type and firmness of the latex, the additional polyfoam layers in the Flexus Body Print, the type of cover and quilting they each use, the type of edge support in each mattress, and that the Flexus Body Print mattresses are two sided and can be flipped while the BE mattresses are one sided.

Because of the many differences between them ... they would each feel and perform differently in terms of PPP even though they are in the same general category.

Phoenix