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Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 20 Mar 2013 02:26 #1

First, thank you for the wealth of information available on this site. It is a great resource! I have been lurking and learning as we prepare to replace our (way too old) Duxiana bed.

After a lot of flopping around on mattresses at various chain stores we think we've settled on latex for our next bed. Our latex experience has been with the PLB Nature and Beautiful in local stores. We like the feel much better than the sinking in feeling of the Tempur-type beds.

I want to put my theory out for comment and appreciate everyone's help.

First, my wife and I are both in the 215 pound range (5' 10" and 6' respectively). My wife mostly sleeps on her side with maybe a little bit of stomach sleeping. I am mostly on my side with a bit of back and very rarely on my stomach. We tend to sleep hot which is another reason the latex approach sounds good.

My wife is looking for a softer feel and liked the Beautiful. She felt the Nature was on the edge of being too firm and would probably want a topper with that model.

I was torn between the two. I like the firm feel of the Nature but the Beautiful felt no pressure on my shoulder at all. (The "Worlds Best" was WAY too soft). I'm afraid I would end up thinking the Beautiful was too soft but maybe I'm being too hard on myself.

We liked the PLB mattresses but balked at the prices. Having found this site I think we can find something to meet our needs at a much better value. We are going with a split king - two twin XLs on adjustable bases.

The SleepEZ solution is very attractive because we can not only have our beds customized for our preferences but we can each adjust them if needed. That capability is pulling me toward SleepEZ.

I spoke to Shawn today to get his recommendations. I think we are leaning toward the 10000 w/3 layers of Talalay. He recommended S-M-F for my wife to give her a plush feel and a M-M-F for me to provide a feeling of more support while still allowing side sleeping.

I forgot to ask Shawn about the ILDs of his Talalay. I will have to do that tomorrow.

Based on the Beautiful being 3" - 21, 3" - 24, and 6" - 36 does S-M-F sound like a reasonable approach? Should we be looking at the 13000 instead?

For myself, M-M-F concerns me a bit for side sleeping. I'm guessing that will be around 30-32 where the Nature is more of 2" - 21, 2" - 28, and then 6" - 36. It may be that the feel of 9" of the SleepEZ will be different than the PLB.

It's great that you can exchange layers but it would be cool to hit it right on the first try.

I guess, in closing, does this seem like a reasonable approach (the 10000) for side sleepers of our size? Would we be better served with the 13000 and going to a 4th layer to make a more progressive feel?

Finally, do you know if the PLB "Natural" (not "All Natural") line is blended Talalay? I'm trying to figure out if I should be looking at the blended or natural Talalay to keep my comparisons honest.

Thanks again for your help!

Mike
Bend, Oregon

PS - I found several other threads similar to this once I got clever using Google's engine. This one, PLB Beautiful or SleepEZ 13000 , in particular, is very helpful. I guess my main questions now revolve around the differences in body weight size and sleep style.

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Last edit: by mwilson. Reason: New information came to light.

Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 20 Mar 2013 06:55 #2

Hi mwilson,

Based on the Beautiful being 3" - 21, 3" - 24, and 6" - 36 does S-M-F sound like a reasonable approach? Should we be looking at the 13000 instead?


There is really no should or shouldn't here and each person will have a different idea of how close one mattress is to another one when the thickness and layering is different. Some would say it's "just like it" and other would say its "different". The top half of the mattress is the part that most people (but not all) feel the most and the Beautiful has 3" x 21 ILD and 3" x 24 ILD which would be a fairly risky construction for you IMO. It is not uncommon that someone loves the "feel" of the Beautiful (or any mattress that is too soft) in a showroom but then discovers it wasn't quite as good for support/alignment as they hoped. Don't forget that comfort is what you feel when you first lie on a mattress but support /alignment is what you feel when you wake up in the morning and it takes more careful testing and listening for more subtle cues from your body in a showroom to check for this.

When you are ordering a mattress that has exchangeable layers online I would build in the expectation of a layer exchange ... even though the odds are good that you won't need it ... so that you can be more comfortable with your initial choices. There is no way to predict for certain what anyone will feel on a mattress they haven't tried in person except in approximate, theoretical, or "average" terms and the only way to know with absolute certainty is to sleep on it. In most cases people tend to put too much emphasis on exact ILD's or exact specs when most people have a wider range of layering that would work perfectly well for them. There are really only two or three basic initial configurations with a 3 x 3" layer mattress (S/M/F or M/F/XF or M/M/F) and in most cases one of these fits almost everyone or at least is close enough that re-arranging the layers or a single layer exchange will be just right.

9" of latex will feel somewhat different for many people than 12" of latex (if the layering is similar) but more for heavier people than lighter ones because thicker mattresses have a greater range of compression (see post #14 here ). So the question becomes is one really any better than the other or are they just different. In much higher weight ranges or for particular circumstances or preferences then thicker can be "better" but for most it is just "different" and for some it isn't any different at all if the top layers are similar. Everything depends on the person and the individual circumstances, preferences, and sensitivities and there are no real answers to much of this outside of your own personal experience. In most cases 9" is fine and will be "similar enough" to another mattress that uses similar layering in the top half of the mattress if the bottom layer has a similar firmness level.

I guess, in closing, does this seem like a reasonable approach (the 10000) for side sleepers of our size? Would we be better served with the 13000 and going to a 4th layer to make a more progressive feel?


Yes ... to me the approach sounds reasonable. There is no "down side" to a thicker mattress as long as the layering is appropriate but it would depend on how sensitive to any differences you believe you may be and on the importance to you of "matching" the Beautiful more closely in specs ... for better or for worse ... rather than "targeting" your needs and preferences.

Perhaps a simpler way to answer this is that the 10000 in the layering Shawn is suggesting would most likely provide you with "enough" pressure relief, "enough" support/alignment, and feel great for most people with some backup in case it "wasn't quite right" for what you need or prefer. The "feel" would be different from the Beautiful however. The closest you could probably come to matching the Beautiful would be a 13000 with S/S/F/F but I would question the wisdom of doing that because of the potential risk of support/alignment issues with top layers that are too soft/thick although you would still have a "backup" available by exchanging layers if that turned out to be the case.

While latex is more "forgiving" than other materials because of its ability to be soft and supportive at the same time, it's not immune from the effects of choices that are too soft. If you did need do a layer exchange to improve the support/alignment to "correct" the layering, then you would once again have a mattress that wasn't the same as the Beautiful but would be "enough" in terms of pressure relief and support/alignment and your preferences of "feel" and you may "like" it even better. Is the risk and the importance of "matching" another mattress that may not be the most suitable for you in real life instead of targeting your needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) or the potential benefits of a thicker mattress or the ability to fine tune it in more ways worth the extra money you would pay for the 13000? Your answer to this will decide which is the "best" direction for you.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 20 Mar 2013 18:59 #3

Phoenix,

Thank you for the thoughtful (and quick) response. I, too, am concerned that the Beautiful would end up being too soft and you've given us good food for thought.

I don't want to go in with a goal of duplicating a particular mattress. The two PLBs are our frame of reference (not a lot of choice in our area) and we have a lot of thinking to do as we look at alternatives.

I take to heart the sentiment that we can make a mattress softer but it is very difficult to turn a too-soft mattress harder. Although it is much easier with the multi-layer, swappable mattress! I appreciate your advice to plan on doing a layer exchange -- it relieves a bit of pressure (pun intended).

As I think more about the differences between the SleepEZ style and that of PLB, I think we may be on the right track.

For example, an M-M-F SleepEZ may meet my side sleeping needs better than the Nature because the comfort layer extends deeper into the mattress (e.g. Nature with 6" of support vs. 3" of Firm with 3" of Medium on the SleepEZ). Alignment could be an issue but there are options to rearrange (M-F-M) or swap out entirely if that is the case.

For my wife, the SleepEZ may not feel quite as plush but there should be better support for her by dropping the comfort layers from 6" (on the Beautiful) to 3". Again, the support layer is not quite as firm as the PLB which should (might?) help balance that out. If she feels the need for a bit more comfort layer we can add a topper or even go up to a 13000 later if she really feels the need for a full 3" of additional comfort layer.

With the split king approach we can deal with mattress height discrepancy at the base if necessary.

I am becoming more confident that we will be able to work within this framework!

I have read several posts about blended vs. all natural Talalay. Off-gassing is a concern for my wife. There seem to be mixed reports on whether one form or the other is better in this respect. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Thanks again for your help!

Best regards,
Mike

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Last edit: by mwilson. Reason: Grammar corrections...

Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 21 Mar 2013 01:27 #4

Hi mwilson,

I take to heart the sentiment that we can make a mattress softer but it is very difficult to turn a too-soft mattress harder. Although it is much easier with the multi-layer, swappable mattress! I appreciate your advice to plan on doing a layer exchange -- it relieves a bit of pressure (pun intended).


This is very true and is one of the advantages of an exchangeable design over a "fixed" design.

For example, an M-M-F SleepEZ may meet my side sleeping needs better than the Nature because the comfort layer extends deeper into the mattress (e.g. Nature with 6" of support vs. 3" of Firm with 3" of Medium on the SleepEZ). Alignment could be an issue but there are options to rearrange (M-F-M) or swap out entirely if that is the case.

For my wife, the SleepEZ may not feel quite as plush but there should be better support for her by dropping the comfort layers from 6" (on the Beautiful) to 3". Again, the support layer is not quite as firm as the PLB which should (might?) help balance that out. If she feels the need for a bit more comfort layer we can add a topper or even go up to a 13000 later if she really feels the need for a full 3" of additional comfort layer.


As a matter of convenience most people (including me) talk about comfort layers, transition layers, and support layers but in actual fact they are not so clearly defined and the layers don't compress sequentially one after another but compress simultaneously. Each layer will have a different degree of compression depending on its position in the mattress and firmness. If for example you sink into a mattress 4" then your "comfort zone" or what I call "critical zone" is actually thicker than the "comfort layer". Most of the 4" of compression would be in the top layer with the bottom layer contributing the least to the 4" (because of its position and greater firmness).

In addition to this ... thickness and softness work together because you will sink into 6" of a certain ILD more than you will into 4" of the same ILD because the thinner layer would get firmer faster as it compressed to a greater percentage of its thickness.

Having said all that ... it seems clear to me that you have a good grasp with your comments about the "deeper" comfort layer of the SleepEz (even though it's firmer overall than the top layers of the Nature) and because of the ability of latex to get firmer faster it also may not present an alignment issue either (a more compressed softer layer can be just as firm as a less compressed firmer layer).

If your wife's "critical zone" is say 4" then the "excess" softness/thickness in the Beautiful could present an issue because there is more "room" for the heavier parts of her body to sink too far before they are "stopped" by the firmer layers. The thinner SleepEz would also get firmer faster than a thicker mattress so this too could improve support (at the tradeoff of pressure relief depending on the firmness levels of the layers).

As you can see there are many interacting variables not the least of which is the changing ratio of mass to surface area of each part of the body as it contacts and sinks into the mattress which means that intuition and experience can play a big role and is why the suggestions of someone like Shawn or any knowledgeable manufacturer can be so valuable. Experience can replace the complex "algorithms" of theory (assuming that all the detailed body measurements and stats are even available or known) and in most cases be more accurate.

I am becoming more confident that we will be able to work within this framework!


That's good to see ... and you have every reason to be confident once the pieces of how it works start to fall into place.

I have read several posts about blended vs. all natural Talalay. Off-gassing is a concern for my wife. There seem to be mixed reports on whether one form or the other is better in this respect. Do you have any thoughts on that?


Both versions of Talalay have the same certification ( Oeko-Tex standard 100 class 1 "safe for babies" ) and I would have absolutely no concern with either of them ... or Dunlop that was certified by a reputable testing organization for that matter. You can see more about the testing here (click "limit values" if you want to see the complete list and actiul limits for each substance).

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Last edit: by phoenix.

Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 21 Mar 2013 18:16 #5

Thanks again, Phoenix, for the thorough and fast response. Lots to digest and think about.

At this point, my wife and I feel like the value proposition for SleepEZ is really strong for us. The key points being:

- very knowledgeable dealer (Shawn)
- high-quality materials
- much better price to value than name brands
- 90-day money back (less $100)
- 90-day layer exchange
- ability to adjust the mattress to tweak comfort (not possible with any sewn-up mattress)
- ability to adjust the mattress to a 13000 if we decide we need (i.e. want) more depth

For us, these factors create a sense of comfort about proceeding with an expensive purchase. We are confident that between Shawn and the advice on this site we will find something that works for us. We anticipate it will take some tweaks here and there but that seems so much better than the take it or leave it approach of major brands and national dealers. It would be even better if we could patronize a local manufacturer but I feel very good about working with SleepEZ.

I think we will place our order in a week or so. I want to align the delivery of the new mattresses with the arrival of our bases.

Regards,
Mike

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Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 21 Mar 2013 21:24 #6

Hi mwilson,

We anticipate it will take some tweaks here and there but that seems so much better than the take it or leave it approach of major brands and national dealers. It would be even better if we could patronize a local manufacturer but I feel very good about working with SleepEZ.


I certainly agree with your sentiments here and it's great to see you've done the research and are confident with the direction you are going (and have every reason to be) :)

I'm looking forward to your thoughts and feedback after you end up pulling the trigger and of course once you've received the mattress.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 22 Mar 2013 03:15 #7

Thank you. We will certainly contribute our thoughts about the experience and our results. I learned a great deal in my reading here and hope that others will be similarly able to learn from our process.

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Selected SleepEZ ... ready to see how it goes! 10 Apr 2013 02:12 #8

We just received our SleepEZ 10000 twin xl mattresses and are ready to give them a try. We ended up purchasing a set of adjustable bases (split king) from Costco and they were installed today. The SleepEZ mattresses were ordered last Tuesday evening and arrived in perfect shape on Monday -- three days ahead of schedule. Shawn and Jeremy have been very good to work with. There was no problem at all receiving the Mattress Underground discount and they still threw in two latex pillows. My wife tried hers out last night on the old bed and thinks it's pretty neat.

There was a momentary panic when the boxes indicated that we received 4 firms instead of 2 and 1 medium instead of 3. Fortunately it turned out that the boxes were mislabeled and we received the correct pieces (SMF for her and MMF for me). Building them up was easy with the stretch cover, which seems very nice. Installed the St. Dormeir protectors, fitted sheets, and we are ready to go.

We intend to give the mattresses several days before judging comfort. Initially, though, we think the setup has a lot of promise. Assuming the comfort level is what we want, the value will be outstanding (better than 40% less than the lowest discounted prices we saw for PLB).

Thanks again for the advice we received. I will be back in a few days with a comfort update.

Mike

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Selected SleepEZ ... ready to see how it goes! 10 Apr 2013 02:48 #9

Hi mwilson,

Thanks for the update!

I'm looking forward to your next "report" :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Considering SleepEZ ... am I on the right track? 11 Apr 2013 02:12 #10

I need to buy a mattress in about two weeks. I have read a lot of the information on this site. Very informative! I visited the Sleep EZ Factory Showroom in Tempe AZ. Talked with Jeremy. He was very helpful.

Main points I came away with:

10" works great (no real added benefit to 13")
go with blended talalay latex
med top med middle firm bottom (I am mostly side sleeper, 6'2" 190 pounds)
ortho wood foundation
went with Talalay Natural High Profile pillows

After getting educated at this site and talking with Jeremy at Sleep EZ, I feel confident that I am about to make a sound mattress decision.
I live in Colorado. But last week was visiting family in southern Arizona. Very happy I made the trip up to visit the Sleep EZ Factory Showroom.

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