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Can you do into detail about why you like Fox's Mattress.... 30 Mar 2013 13:49 #1

Phoenix,

First let me commend you on this site. Wow, it should be required that every mattress provider give this site out as a requirement so prospective buyers have a fighting chance. Thank you for taking the time to level set the industry.

After reading for about a week, especially articles covering sleeping hotter or cooler. Post #11 here and post #2 here , we decided to take the plunge and head 1.5 hours to Fox’s Mattress in Daytona based on your high recommendations. We looked at both memory foam and latex as Tempur-Pedic Rapacity was our target baseline, just too expensive. Unfortunately, we bought one and after doing a little more research this morning, have very bad buyers remorse based on the infromation below. Hence wanted to reach out to you to see if we really did completely over pay for what we got and if so why you recommend them so highly and do not warn of their high prices. Point being I just saw the Mattress to Go site this morning and got a pit in my stomach over Fox's prices.

I am heavier at 5'9" 240, and wife is 5'9 135. I am stomach and side sleeper and she is a side sleeper. Getting new mattress because limbs are numb in morning and have back pain. I sleep very hot, she sleep comfortable.

Concerns
After evaluating them both (since there is no information on their website) I was left wondering why you favored their beds so much. There features appear to be equal or less than two other manufactures you mentioned a fraction of the cost. Original Mattress Factory or Mattress to Go

When I asked, the sales rep for a written copy of their measurements, I was given them verbally instead (interesting they would not put it in writing) and their prices were a good 25-50% higher than OMF and Mattress to go which is another site you recommended and I also think has a better mattress.

Given those price points and you recommendation I would think they would be building an obviously better mattress (by at least 25-50% better), assuming service and warranty are the same. As for Warranty, MTG has a 25 year warranty, 15 years full)
Hence, can you elaborate why you are recommending Fox’s so much given they appear to be allusive in pricing and product.

MEMORY FOAM MATTRESS COMPONENTS:

OMF (Stats online) $2099
• 6” High Density Foam Core ~ 28-32 ILD, 2.15-2.35 lb/ft3
• High Density Memory Foam Topper ~ 10-16 ILD, 7.6-8.4 lb/ft3 Density
• High Density Memory Foam Topper ~ 8-14 ILD, 4.7-5.3 lb/ft3 Density
• Air-Flow Foam Layer
• FR Knit SockKnit Cover

FOX’S (VERBALStat only) $2499
• 6” High Density Foam Core ~ 3 lb/ft3
• High Density Latex Topper ~ 24 ILD Density
• High Density Gel-Memory Foam Topper ~ 5 lb/ft3 Density

MTG (Stats ONLINE) $1694
• Cover: EcoGel stretch knit.
• Quilt Padding Layers: 2" 5 lb. 15 IFD High-Support Open-Cell Memory Foam, DynaFlow Airlock System, 2" 4 lb. 12 IFD EcoGel Second Generation Gel Polymer Infused Memory Foam, Non-Toxic Flame Retardant SafeGuard™ Fiber.
• Interior Padding Layers: 1" 2.0 lb. 18 IFD Latex-Enhanced Support Layer.
• Innerspring: Core: 6" Heavy Density 1.8 lb. Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused Core.
• Foundation: Heavy-Duty High Profile Semi-Flex Technology Support Unit, Thick 6 Gauge Border Rod, Insulator-Pad.
• Spring Counts - Twin: N/A Full: N/A Queen: N/A King: N/A
• Mattress Thickness (Inches): 12"
• Warranty: 25 Years (15 Years Full / 10 Years Prorated)Latex


LATEX
OMF (Stats online $1749
• All Latex models are padded equally on both sides of the mattress.
• 6” Talatech® Talalay Latex Foam Core - 30-34 ILD, 3.9-4.2lb/ft³ Density (Tolerance ±.25lb/ft³)
• Convoluted Talatech® Talalay Latex Foam Topper – 17-21 ILD, 3.1-3.3lb/ft³ Density (Tolerance ±.25lb/ft³)
• FR Fiber
• Quilted Panel Featuring a Premium Damask Fabric Cover
• Heavy Duty Cloth Handles

FOX’S (VERBAL Stats only) ($3000)

• All Latex models are padded equally on both sides of the mattress.
• 6” Latex Foam Core – 40 ILD Density
• 2” Latex Foam Topper – 22 ILD³ Density

MTG ($1875)
• Cover: Natural Cotton Stretch Knit.
• Quilt Padding Layers: 1/2" Polyurethane Quilt Foam, 1" Super Soft Polyurethane Quilt Foam and Non-Toxic Flame Retardant SafeGuard™ Fiber Quilted to Cover.
• Interior Padding Layers: 1" Soft Polyurethane Support Foam, 2" Soft 3.2 lb. 19 IFD Talalay Latex, 1" Gel BiOH® Visco-Elastic Memory Foam, 2" 4 lb. 14 IFD BiOH® Gel Latex.
• Innerspring: Core: 4" Heavy Density 2.1 lb. 30 IFD Perfect Form Support Soy-Infused BiOH® Core, 2" Heavy Density 1.8 lb. 21 IFD Conforming Support Soy-Infused BiOH® Core, 1" High-Density Stability Base Foam.
• Foundation: Pure Touch Heavy Duty Wood Platform Foundation with 3x the Number of Cross Beams and an Extra Center Support. Due to the heavy weight of this foundation, we strongly recommend this be ordered with split boxes.
• Spring Counts - Twin: N/A Full: N/A Queen: N/A King: N/A
• Mattress Thickness (Inches): 14"
• Warranty: 20 Years Full (20/20)

In additional to the mattress I am getting the following (to stay cool) based on recommendations on your site.

Mattress Protector

Protect-A-Bed® Plush mattress protector

Sheets

Linoto's Belgian eco-linen sheets
or
100% mulberry silk charmeuse sheet set

Pillows
King Size Gel Pillows

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Can you do into detail about why you like Fox's Mattress.... 30 Mar 2013 20:25 #2

Hi ocean,

Can you do into detail about why you like Fox's Mattress

After evaluating them both (since there is no information on their website) I was left wondering why you favored their beds so much. There features appear to be equal or less than two other manufactures you mentioned a fraction of the cost. Original Mattress Factory or Mattress to Go


The reason I think highly of them is the same as the other members here (and many other local manufacturers around the country which are not members) and you can read it here . They educate, they use good quality materials, they are open about what they make, and they help you make good choices. This of course doesn't mean that any of their mattresses would be the most suitable choice for anyone specific (quality, value, and suitability are completely different things) but that I would strongly consider them if a member or for that matter any local manufacturer was close to me. Every mattress they make may not be the best value in the country by some particular definition of value (and each person's personal value equation can be very different from someone else) but based on overall value that includes all the factors that are important in a mattress purchase I wouldn't hesitate to buy a mattress from any of the members here. This article and the front page article along with post #404 here and post #12 here go into more detail as well.

If you are making value comparisons ... it's very important to make sure they are apples to apples when you are looking at the materials as well as all the other factors that are most important to you as well. apples to oranges comparisons can make anything look "good or bad" and most of your comparisons are not what I would call "apples to apples" comparisons. It would be like looking at two pieces of furniture that were both made of "wood" without taking into account the type, quality, cost, or amount of the wood that was used or the construction techniques that were used to put the furniture together.

I'll use a few of your examples to illustrate.

Memory foam mattresses

First of all the core materials are very different between your examples.

Fox uses 3.0 lb polyfoam which is much higher quality and cost than the other two (It's a completely different class of foam called HR rather than HD which is a much more costly and higher performance material). OMF uses 2.2 lb base foam which is good quality HD polyfoam (not HR) and MTG uses 1.8 lb polyfoam which is at the low end of what I would consider to be acceptable in a polyfoam base layer. All of these are suitable but they go from the bottom to the middle to the top of the range in polyfoam quality. If all else is equal, prices are higher for higher quality materials.

The comfort layers are a similar situation. While some of these don't mention layer thickness which is an important part of value ... I can still compare the quality of the materials

Fox uses latex (the most costly foam available) and 5 lb gel memory foam (which is a higher quality/density than most gel memory foams). These are higher quality and more costly materials.

OMF uses 1.5" of 8 lb memory foam on top and then 2.5" of 5 lb memory foam under this (with a thin layer of reticulated foam in between). These are also high quality materials even though they are not latex and are probably thinner than the Fox mattress.

MTG uses 2" of 4 lb gel memory foam and 2" of 5 lb memory foam and 1" of 2.0 lb polyfoam (which has a very small amount of latex in it). These are also good quality materials but not in the same quality or price range as the other two.

None of these includes any information about the cover which can also be a significant part of the cost of a mattress.

Again higher quality materials mean a more costly mattress even though their "value" may be similar.

Latex mattresses

To do a similar "analysis" on your other "Latex" examples which also aren't apples to apples (and all of them aren't even "all latex" mattresses)

OMF uses 6" of blended Talalay which is a good quality material. They then use 1.5" of convoluted latex on both sides which is a lower cost version of latex. You can make two 1.5" convolute layers for example out of a single 2" layer of solid latex. The cover information is also missing and the quilting is also polyfoam.

FOX uses 6" of latex but your specs don't mention which type. It would be at least the same overall cost and quality as the OMF but could also be a higher cost version of latex as well (such as all natural Talalay). They use 2" of latex on either side of this and again the cover information is missing which is a significant part of the cost of the mattress.

MTG is a latex hybrid (not a latex mattress) which uses lower cost materials throughout the mattress. The base layer is polyfoam (4" 2.1 lb and 2" 1.8 lb and 1" of HD which could be anything from 1.5 lb and up). All of this is polyfoam not latex which is a much lower cost and quality material. The comfort layers are a mix of different types of foam. In the quilting there is .5" of polyfoam and 1" of soft polyfoam (probably low density). The comfort layers have 1" Soft Polyfoam, 2" blended Talalay Latex, 1" Gel memory foam (density missing but probably 4 lb), 2" of Active fusion fast response Talalay (blended Talalay with phase change gel added). Overall these are mostly good quality materials for their price range but there is also a total of 2.5" of soft polyfoam in the upper comfort layers which may be a "weak link" in this mattress and I would be cautious with polyfoam layers that were 2" or more. It is also only finished on one side so this is a less costly construction as well than the other two. This is not a "latex mattress" in other words and while it may be good quality and value in its price range ... it's certainly not an apples to apples comparison with the other two.

Of course I could go into more detail (if I had more information) but the overall point I am making is that if you do apples to apples comparisons then you will find that the better local manufacturers really do use better quality materials in their mattresses and have the type of value that is not available with mainstream manufacturers. They are focused on their customer base and their local reputation and their years of experience means that they make mattresses that really do have the value that people pay for. all of these may have similar "value" but they are not in the same quality range.

There may also be significant differences in the services and options that are available before, during, and after a purchase which can be a significant part of the value of a mattress purchase as well.

So hopefully this answered your question and helped you to realize the importance of making apples to apples comparisons and also to evaluate each mattress you are looking at using your own personal value equation that takes into account all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors that can be a very important part of any mattress purchase (including the materials of course).

In all cases ... as you hopefully read in the post about how to find the best mattress for YOU ... it's always important to make sure that you narrow down your choices at each manufacturer or retailer you are considering to one and then evaluate all your final choices (which will all be between "good and good" at this point) based on all the factors that are most important to you so that your final choice is the one that is the best value for YOU.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Can you do into detail about why you like Fox's Mattress.... 31 Mar 2013 12:14 #3

This was a fantastic response and cannot be thankful enough for the detail that you responded with. Went a long way in helping me understand how things were not apples to apples, as I thought they were. Certainly makes me "feel" better about going with Fox. I will be reaching out to them to get the answers to some of the outstanding questions you raised as I would greatly appreciate filling in the gaps. We have several more mattresses to purchase and this will go a long way in understanding if we should get more of the same or perhaps change the ingredients some.

Thank you again Phoenix.....awesome moderator!!!!!

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