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Latex-pros and cons

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21 Jul 2017 15:52 #11 by mattresslooker
Replied by mattresslooker on topic Latex-pros and cons
Thanks for your input. The Rushmore has 2" of 3 lb gel infused open-call memory foam, 2" of 5 lb Gel infused open cell memory foam, 2" of Luxury foam for enhanced comfort. The Splendor features are above. Any recommendations since I am unable to "try" either mattress out.

This is under a warranty as I said and these are the choices I was given as a replacement for an Englander mattress. I am confused to say the least.

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21 Jul 2017 16:46 #12 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi mattresslooker,

The Rushmore has 2" of 3 lb gel infused open-call memory foam, 2" of 5 lb Gel infused open cell memory foam, 2" of Luxury foam for enhanced comfort.


The 2” of 3 lb memory foam would be a less durable material and lower than I would recommend, especially in the uppermost layer of the mattress (4 lb is the minimum I like to see for memory foam). You didn’t list the density of the 2” of “Luxury Foam”, and you also didn’t list what is used for the support core for the mattress. Is it a polyfoam core as shown on their web site? If so, you’d want to know the density of that core.

The Splendor features are above.


I’m not sure what you mean by “above”. Do mean the earlier specs of .5"gel Latex, .5" blue gel visco, 1.5" Poly and foam encasement pocketed coil? You’d want to know the density of the 1.5” of polyfoam, and if that mattress is 15” thick there would seem to be something missing in the layers you were given, as a normal pocketed spring unit is about 8” or so. Perhaps there is a base piece of poly foam beneath the springs? That would make sense with the foam edge system.

As far as comfort goes, I wouldn’t be able to tell you what either product might feel like or how it might compare to your old mattress. That’s disappointing that you can’t try out either product.

In situations like this, I normally would advise you to pick the product using the least amount of low quality or unknown material, which you can determine once you are provided more complete details.

Phoenix

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06 Feb 2018 18:23 #13 by HowieNB
Replied by HowieNB on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi I really like your site and the information that you post. I had done a fair amount of research before which mostly lines up with what you write.
I very much agree with what you say about Talalay latex being extremely good in supporting the person sleeping.
My wife and I (have gotten lucky?!?) to come across a Canadian company Swiss Dream Beds that retails a bed system that uses Talalay latex for its mattress in combination with a wooden slat system. It did come at a very reasonable price though. We have been very happy with our bed. We were also positively surprised when we open the bag and it smelled like....vanilla or something like that. I am not sure how to describe natural latex smell!

Anyways thanks for your great work and keep it up!

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07 Feb 2018 18:39 #14 by freitazm
Replied by freitazm on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hey everyone,

Currently I have a medium Dunlop topper, but I find it might be a tad too firm for me and I'm kind of an all position sleeper. I was wondering what a softer version of Talalay would be in terms of firmness? I am looking for Talalay due to it's pressure relieving properties. This is on a pocket coil base by the way.

Would a medium Talalay be just a little softer than the Dunlop firm?

By the way, I'm 5'11 and around 240, but I am losing weight and plan to keep losing so I was factoring that into my decision as well.

Thanks for the help!

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08 Feb 2018 01:25 #15 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi freitazm.

Congratulations on your weight loss. :)

Talalay would have a softer feel and might add just the touch you need for better pressure relief for you. Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). Not only that Talalay and Dunlop have a slightly different feel, with Talalay being “springier”, but the biggest difference is that Dunlop “firms up faster” than Talalay, as it is compressed more.

There is also more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .

Good luck with the fine-tuning.

Phoenix

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10 Apr 2018 09:49 #16 by Robert101
Replied by Robert101 on topic Latex-pros and cons
hi
I owned a spring mattress that I was very unhappy with and recently purchased a tempurpedic breeze mattress- its better then the spring mattress but I am not completely satisfied either as over time at night one sinks in too much and also the heat. I am not sure its because its not hybrid version. However, after reading articles on this website I am interested in latex mattress. My concern is not cost of mattress as i am willing to spend a lot for a good mattress if necessary. here are a list of my concerns/questions:
- whats the difference between all the organic latex mattresses such as green sleep and sleeptek vs Berkley Egonomics etc.?
- is there a need for core of the mattress to be spring or all latex is preferred?
-when using a split king latex mattress (2 twin to form a king size) does one fill the gap between the 2 mattresses when its together? or if its without the mattress cover?
-can one use a latex mattress with an adjustable base? does it effect the mattress?

i appreciate your help

thank you,
Robert

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10 Apr 2018 10:51 #17 by Twoods196
Replied by Twoods196 on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hey Robert,

I’m no expert but figured I would respond with my personal and opinions on your questions. I previously had a tempurpedic just like you and have the exact same problem as you. It feels great at first but memory foams “feelness” as a lot to do with temperature and I’m sure you noticed as your body heats up it heats the memory foam and causes you to sink further and further into it. It started causing me horrible back pains. One temporary solution I found worked quite well was adding a barrier between me and the memory foam. When I say barrier I mean a topper. I used a 3” 18ILD Talalay topper and that Main a huge diffrence. As it was much harder for the heat of my body to reach the memory foam.

Now since I had this 3” topper already I decided to go the DIY route and build my own mattress. The reasons behind this was 1, I already had the 3” topper. 2, if I built it in multiple layers I could further modify it to my likings in the future. So if I get it, assemble and don’t like the way it feels I can simply rearrange until I get the right comfort feel and support that I want. If I ever wanna add something in the future I have the option to do this. All while saving me a lot of money compared to what buy one straight up would cost. If you enjoy the journey and doing DIY I highly recommend this route as you can essentially overtime make your perfect bed. You might not get it perfect on the first try but if you stay persistent with it. You will come out with a bed that’s better than most Retailer’s.

You mentioned gaps in a split king. My recommendation here would be decide on your core layer and have it in 1 king size sheet in the thickness you want. Then from there up use twin xl sizes. That way you can customize each side. So can order your layers to be more firm and your wife’s side to be more soft. At this point you have two options. I used a bamboo mattress cover from brylanehome it’s a 13” for a long and was 95 bucks. While waiting on it to come In shopping around most people was wanting 300+ for these mattress enclosures. So I expected I was gonna be getting something very cheap. I was wrong. Way wrong

It seems they build these covers when you order them and there built extremely well. I was really shocked at the quality!

So you could just wrap your layers in something like that and you oils never notice the gap.

Second option is to glue it in. This is done lot in zoning mattresses which takes my concept about the diffrent style twins an butting then together to a whole new level. There are a few companies that do this and a lot of
DIY people do it and it will be my next mod to my bed. Basically they use diffrent ILD ratings along with diffrent variations on how it’s made(Dunlop, Talallay). So things like your hip area which have more weight would get a higher ILD an prob made of Dunlop as in my experience it seems to be more supportutive(hard to explain the diffrence in the two of you have never experienced them both). So they basically insert diffrent ILD in key spots to help support beaver parts of your body and Vice versa for other parts.

Now when it comes to the core, I personally can not tell a diffrence from using latex vs some other foam that supports the same way. The real benefit I think of all latex is it’s durability which icreases the mattresses life(also VOC if that sort of thing bothers you)

For adjustable beds, yes latex works great better than springbeds in my opinion. Memory foam and latex both work better with hard slabs as bases over a traditional box spring. Most all adjustable beds are hard slabs. So my latex bed works great in ours.

These are all my opinions and everyone is diffrent so what works for me might be horrible for you but I will list how I made my bed below and you can see how having multiple layers opens up the possibility for endless customizations.

Bottom Layer 3” HQ LUX FOAM
Next Layer 2” HQ LUX FOAM
Next Layer 2” HD36 FOAM
Next Layer 1” HD36 FOAM
Next Layer 2” Medium Dunlop Latex
Top Layer 3” Soft Tallalay Latex

All wrapped in the Brylanehome bamboo cover.

After I built this the bottom layers made it way to hard. Crazy how layers that far down affect it so much but it does. So as a test I removed the 2 LUX pieces and retried it and it felt better than anything I’ve ever slept on. I think I can make it even better but I just gotta find time to mess around with the layers and see what works best but as stated earlier that’s one of the benefits of doing a diy mattress. Endless customizeable until you find exactly what you want.

If you plan to go that route one suggestion is to mimic the layers of a mattress you have tried and liked. I would just always recommend getting ech Layer in 2-3” cuts so you can customize it more later on.

Hopefully that helps you some and I didn’t completely loose ya. Sorry for all the bad grammar really hard to type proper from mobile. Good luck

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10 Apr 2018 11:53 #18 by Robert101
Replied by Robert101 on topic Latex-pros and cons
Twoods196
i appreciate your comments, i am confused though about all the brands as far as quality etc.
thanks

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12 Apr 2018 04:23 #19 by GordyJean
Replied by GordyJean on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hmm, I can definitely agree with this.

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12 Apr 2018 14:02 - 12 Apr 2018 18:15 #20 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi Robert101.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Response to Post #17: You've brought up quite a few points (some of them perhaps unknowingly) and I'll try to deal with them one by one.

I am sorry to hear that you have issues with your new Tempurpedic Breeze. Not everyone likes the feel of a memory foam mattress as it has low resilience, high hysteresis and more of an “in the mattress” feel to it that changes in response to variations in temperature, humidity (both from the ambient environment and your own body) and length of time and it is subject to compression forces. It can feel firm in certain circumstances and soft under different conditions. Due to its viscous-elastic properties and more closed celled structure, it is very good at forming a pressure relieving cradle around your body, but it will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so temperature, as you noticed, can be an issue. You can read more about the pros and cons of memory foam in this article

- whats the difference between all the organic latex mattresses such as green sleep and sleeptek vs Berkley Egonomics etc.?


A forum search on Greensleep (Belgium manufacturer) and on Sleeptek (Canadian manufacturer) and Berkely Ergonomics (USA Manufacturer) specifically (you can just click these) will bring up more information and feedback about all of them. From a quality perspective there are no weak links in the materials of either item to sway the needle in the direction of one versus the other... and all of these mattresses use high-quality materials and could make very good choices based on the other parts of your "value equation" (see post #46 here ) that are most important to you.

Both Sleeptek and Greensleep use a Dunlop process to make their latex which is different from the Talalay process that Berkley uses. There are some videos linked in post #3 here that show the different production processes and there is also more about the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here but you may notice a difference in feel (some people like one more over the other). Berkley Ergonomics uses European sourced Natural Talalay and pocket coils, (organic cotton, wool, and even camel down in some models) while Sleeptek and Greensleep don’t use springs. The difference between the items would be in the overall comfort and how that is achieved with the different componentry. Berkley uses the coil unit as a support layer as opposed to foam… it would be strictly a preference of your own personal PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences).

In terms of "material value" ... your choices are in the more premium end of the budget range compared to other mattresses that use similar materials but value has many components and each person has their own see personal value equation which is all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors that are the most important part of any mattress purchase. The suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), the quality of the materials and components (including the cover and quilting which can be a significant part of the cost of a mattress), the ability to customize a mattress before and after a purchase, along with the knowledge and service of the retailer you are purchasing from are all important parts of value and for many people price is less of an issue than the many other parts of "value". The goal is always to make meaningful comparisons based on the criteria that are most important to you.

- is there a need for core of the mattress to be spring or all latex is preferred?


The most important “need” would be more connected with your own personal preferences and the feel that you are looking for. Making more generalized assessments of a mattress only based on one component doesn't take into account that all the layers in a mattress work together and will affect its feel and performance so either one could be part of a mattress that provides you with your pressure relief and alignment/support needs. Assuming that all the materials in a mattress are high quality ... everything boils down to which mattress design works best for the two basic functions of a mattress . Without going too much into technicalities both innersprings and a firmer latex core can be used as a core/support layer and each has very "different" characteristics. Both of them be made in many different designs and can come in softer or firmer versions with an innerspring that is firmer than a latex core or the other way around depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing.
There is more about the 4 main types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .Some of the more technical differences include ...
• In general, latex will be more motion isolating than an innerspring.
• Firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.
• Innersprings have more "air" in them so they would be more breathable than latex even though latex is the most breathable of the foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers.
• I know that this may not be of concern to you but most latex is more expensive than most innersprings.
• They "feel" very different with innersprings being more "bouncy" or "springy" than latex (although latex has more "spring" than other foam types).
• Innersprings have a more "flat line" response curve than latex ( see the graph here ) but because there are many types of innersprings with different response curves this doesn't always hold true and there are also different types of latex which would also have different response curves.
• Innersprings absorb less energy than latex which means they are more resilient. They "push back" more strongly than latex in other words but this is not the same as softness ... only about how much of the energy that is used to compress them is lost (or how high a ball will bounce when it's dropped on them).
• Latex has a similar or higher compression modulus than most innerspring spring rates and either gets firmer with deeper compression at a similar rate as an innerspring (Talalay) or at a faster rate than an innerspring (Dunlop) which means it can be more "supportive".
• Different innersprings have widely different abilities to take on the shape of the body (depending on the number of coils and how independently they function) while latex is much more "point elastic" than any of them because it can flex in each part of the core with less effect on the area around it than an innerspring.

There are many other more technical differences but the most important differences are the ones you can feel. Either of them can make a good choice for a support layer and in the end it really boils down to which one you tend to prefer. Both of them can provide good/support alignment. There are so many varieties of both that it's not really possible to make more specific comparisons outside of some of the more obvious and more "generic" differences that I've mentioned.

-when using a split king latex mattress (2 twin to form a king size) does one fill the gap between the 2 mattresses when its together? or if its without the mattress cover?..


I am assuming that you are asking this in connection with placing the split king on an adjustable base. As an aside, there is no single king version of power bases with the most common manufacturers and can only be ordered in a split king version, but the mattress on top of them can either be a single king-size or a split king size. The two halves of the adjustable bed can be programmed to operate together with a single remote.

As you mentioned, when you operate each side independently you would have to deal with the split in the middle and decide if feeling the split was worth the tradeoff of independent movement on each side. How much you would feel the split when the mattresses were flat would also depend on the specifics of the mattress and on how flush the top surfaces fit together. A mattress that has a more square shape with sharper (not rounded) upper edges with either latex or memory foam on top and that has no tape edge or seam on the upper edges would minimize or reduce the feel of any gap or split between them.

You can also get various types of "converters" which fill in the crack in the middle and attach the two halves together such as here and here and here and here but you would lose the ability of operating each half independently so you may be better off with a single king unless you want to keep the option open.

You could also use a single topper over both sides (preferably with the gap filled in) if the gap in between was uncomfortable but this would also eliminate the advantage of being able to adjust each side separately because it could damage the topper so it would probably be better to use a single king mattress rather than go in this direction unless again you wanted to keep the option of going back to a split king mattress open.

Having to deal with a crack in the middle that most people would feel if you tend to share or use the sleeping area in the middle for sleeping, cuddling, or other activities vs having a single sleeping surface without any gaps in the middle is one of the tradeoffs that each person would need to make for themselves to decide if the crack or gap in between was worth the benefits of having two mattresses that are independent of each other. It would really be a preference and lifestyle choice.

Hope this helps with your decision

Phoenix
Note to Twoods196: Thanks for your contribution and sharing your experience about your DIY.

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Last edit: 12 Apr 2018 18:15 by Phoenix.

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