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Latex-pros and cons

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16 Apr 2018 15:09 #21 by Robert101
Replied by Robert101 on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hello again,

thanks to all for replying to my questions. I took your general advice and went to several mattress stores that sell latex and surprisingly i didn't like a lot of good brands like OMI, Saavy rest (just proves your point that one really needs to try out the mattress and see what works for that individual). The one i really liked is the 'kama flex plush' from sleeptek with 3 layers of 4" latex in soft, med, med.

There are companies/brands out there that one can order online and they offer free shipping/returns such as 'sleep on latex pure green' (which i see is a member here) and such... the pricing on these mattresses are significantly cheaper then sleeptek,omi,saavy and so on and web claims that they are made from same natural latex
I really like the sleeptek and am willing to pay the price if necessary but don't want to feel like i could have gotten the same thing at 1/4 the price

my question is how come there is such a huge difference in price? is it worth going through the hassle of ordering/returning or am i wasting my time??

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16 Apr 2018 15:52 #22 by Robert101
Replied by Robert101 on topic Latex-pros and cons
one more thing i was wondering if you can advise on i was also looking into the 'purple' mattress with buckling gel.

any opinions?

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17 Apr 2018 21:58 #23 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi Robert101.

There are companies/brands out there that one can order online and they offer free shipping/returns such as 'sleep on latex pure green' (which i see is a member here) and such... the pricing on these mattresses are significantly cheaper then sleeptek,omi,saavy and so on and web claims that they are made from same natural latex
I really like the sleeptek and am willing to pay the price if necessary but don't want to feel like i could have gotten the same thing at 1/4 the price


There are many factors involved in the price of a mattress when you are comparing mattresses made by two different manufacturers, some connected with the raw materials and the production costs, some connected the business model, infrastructure cost, the shipping costs, and the returns and exchange policies. In the case of Sleeptek, OMI … you are looking at fully organic mattresses for which some people are willing to pay more than for mattress made with similar materials that are not organically certified from manufacturers or retailers that don't stress or even promote the organic qualities of their mattresses to the same degree, or that did not go through the rigorous and costly process of certifying the materials or the product for being organic.

Most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress are really looking for "safe" materials and there are many options that are "safe" that aren't organic and I would first determine if “organic” is important to you,as part of your personal value equation. There is more about organic certifications in post #3 here and the topics that it links to.

my question is how come there is such a huge difference in price? is it worth going through the hassle of ordering/returning or am i wasting my time??


As far as if it is worth your time … it’ll all boil down to your personal value equation and what it most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for). There are many people who are not comfortable ordering a mattress that they can't test online ... even with a good exchange policy. For someone that isn't comfortable with an online purchase then a higher price for a local purchase may be better value for them. The only way to know your level of comfort with any online purchase is with more detailed phone conversations with each online manufacturer or retailer you are considering. After these conversations, you can more easily decide on your level of comfort with an online purchase.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses. This will help you make more meaningful comparisons and will increase the odds that your choice will be as good in real life and the long term as it seemed in the showroom or online.

one more thing i was wondering if you can advise on i was also looking into the 'purple' mattress with buckling gel. Any opinions?


Purple uses a unique bucking column gel they call Hyper-Elastic Polymer. There is more about buckling column gel in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to and a forum search on " buckling column gel " will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well.

The Purple mattress has been discussed quite a bit on the forum and it is covered in the Simplified Choice thread here and you can also perform a search on Purple here for other posts mentioning this product.

Phoenix

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29 Apr 2018 10:22 #24 by adriano
Replied by adriano on topic Latex-pros and cons
I recently bought a top of the line, Talalay organic hand made mattress, king size. After just one week of use, the mattress was showing significant body imprints on both sides (my wife and I are small, neither weighs more than 160 lbs.). The mattress is manufactured locally here in Victoria BC Canada, so I called the manufacturer, who came out and was shocked by the imprint and product failure (Global Talalay, N3 3" over N5 6"). Both top and bottom layers showed imprints. The entire mattress was swapped out for a new mattress. After just 2 nights on the new mattress, the body imprints are back. At this point, I am at a loss. Is this normal? According to the manufacturer, the product failing this fast on the first mattress in "very strange". Now the replacement mattress seems to be doing the same. Mattress is on a base supplied by the same manufacturer. Can somebody please give me some insight here? We are extremely frustrated. WTF???

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30 Apr 2018 08:40 #25 by kmikey
Replied by kmikey on topic Latex-pros and cons
I'm very interested in seeing a reply to this, because I just bought a new latex mattress as well, and body impressions appeared on both sides after just one night (we each weigh around 150 lbs). Not at all what I expected from a latex mattress from a highly reputable source.

Thanks.

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01 May 2018 02:33 - 01 May 2018 02:36 #26 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi Adriano and kmikey.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

The mattress is manufactured locally here in Victoria BC Canada, so I called the manufacturer, who came out and was shocked by the imprint and product failure (Global Talalay, N3 3" over N5 6"). Both top and bottom layers showed imprints. The entire mattress was swapped out for a new mattress. After just 2 nights on the new mattress, the body imprints are back. At this point, I am at a loss. Is this normal? According to the manufacturer, the product failing this fast on the first mattress in "very strange"


I am sorry to hear that your mattress developed body impressions and I can certainly understand your frustration at having the same issue with a second mattress after only a few days. While all new mattresses will go through a break in period and there is also an adjustment period as well for any new sleeping surface ... it would be unusual that there are any significantly visible body impressions in a relatively new mattress unless it was defective.

As you are having the same issue with the replacement mattress within two weeks it may be worth pointing out a few reasons why a mattress can develop impressions to make sure that you are ruling out anything that might cause this which is not connected with the latex itself. I would first check the frame and support system under the mattress to make sure that it is perfectly flat and that there are no parts that are sagging or that are bending under the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it. It should provide similar support to having your mattress on the floor and you can test this by putting your mattress on the floor to see if it makes any difference. If it does then it's possible that your support system could be part of the problem as well.

A new mattress, especially King and CalKing size, generally would not have a surface that remains "pancake flat” as the mattress loses any of its "false firmness" and the cover stretches and loosens a little. Some manufacturers use x-soft foam in their quilt panel, and/or then use 1.5”+ of wool as the FR barrier. It may well not be the latex, but the materials used on top of the latex that is causing the “indentations” and you may wish to find out what quilting and FR is used in your mattress. You also did not mention the impressions depth, but generally speaking a slight indentation would be considered "normal" if they were coming from a quilting material such as wool (which will compress in the areas you sleep the most over time) but it wouldn't be "normal" to see visible impressions in the latex itself in just a few days.

I would be also curious about the make and model of your mattress and the materials and components inside it since there are many so-called "all latex" mattresses that are sold in the industry that don't only contain latex and that could also include lower quality materials or weak links in their design that may be the cause of sagging. The law tag on your mattress will tell you whether there are any other materials besides latex in your mattress. While it's certainly possible that your mattress contains layers or components that are defective ... latex, in general, is the most durable of all the foam materials and is much less likely to develop soft spots (virtual impressions) or sagging (visible impressions) than other types of foam.

Impressions developed due to foam softening or breakdown is rarely an issue with latex unless it is defective or too soft for the body type of the person sleeping on it (softer foam is always less durable than firmer foam regardless of the type of foam). N3 Talalay is rated as a medium firmness by the foam manufacturer and at your BMI it should not be an issue. In some cases however a consumer can choose a mattress that is "on the edge" of being too soft for them when it's new and in these cases even a very small amount of foam softening can put them over the edge of the range of comfort or support that is suitable for them. There is more about this in post #2 here . In these cases, the issue is not about the quality or durability of the materials but an issue of the comfort choice they made.

I hope you have the chance to let us know what the manufacturer says when you talk to them again. They may ask you to send in pictures showing the impressions (with a straight edge or string across the surface of the layers) and if you do it would be great to attach them to one of your posts as well.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 01 May 2018 02:36 by Phoenix.

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02 May 2018 16:28 #27 by adriano
Replied by adriano on topic Latex-pros and cons
Thanks for the reply. The mattresses were locally manufactured by Fawcett Mattress here in Victoria, BC, and are marketed as being 100% natural and organic. Check them out, I would be interested in seeing what your take on this is. I will say that the imprints are not "slight". Manufacturer says it is the first time he has experienced something like this in 35 years of making mattresses. He said our new mattress looked like if it were 20 years old...after 1 week of use! It is laying on a new articulating bed, supplied by the same manufacturer. We did articulate the bed during the first week with the new mattress....but after the mattress failed and we had it replaced with a new one we unplugged the adjustable bases to see if the articulating was part of the problem. But no, the new mattress is even worse than the first, just really sagging - without ever haven even articulated it. I will say, however, that although the product itself has been a nightmare, customer service has been top-notch, given the unfortunate circumstances. Now I am left with the option of returning the bed and bases for a full refund, or having the same company make me a new bed. At this point I am thinking of a refund...and considering purchasing a top-of-the-line Strearns s & Foster. Any advice?

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03 May 2018 14:06 #28 by MechE
Replied by MechE on topic Latex-pros and cons
In reading many of the postings, I’ve realized that much of what people know here is garnered more from sales reps and marketing. First off, there’s no such thing as an “active” system that does not have a closed loop feedback mechanism. So to say that a foam or other elastomeric material is “active” when compared to an air spring is ludicrous at best. An active system would be something like an air spring with active pressure control which some mattresses actually have. That active control leverages automatically adjusting pneumatic valves w/ accumulator tanks and a pump. Let’s be real here - ALL elastomers experience compression set. So if you believe a sales rep that says their “foam, latex, gel, etc “ doesn’t suffer from compression set they must be referring to something that has yet to be invented on the planet earth in the category of elastomers. I suggest the moderators either hire a degreed material science engineer or at the very least vet their communications through engineering professionals that could also help them do experiments to support some of the most outrageous claims I’ve seen in this site. I’d be more than happy to discuss any topic using actual physics, material science and fundamental engineering principles w/ closed form solutions to convey real facts to help support effective decision making.

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03 May 2018 14:16 #29 by MechE
Replied by MechE on topic Latex-pros and cons
“Normal” is born from perspective. From mine, compression set can be forced onto any elastomeric material in as little as a few seconds. So if someone experienced compression set on a latex mattress then that mattress material leverages a latex that has a higher than average Ca rating. All elastomers have a nonzero value for Ca. Ask the manufacturer to provide the result of ASTM D 395 testing for their material. I’d go so far as to even ask for a material cert. understand variation occurs from lot to lot so that’s the excuse they’re going to give you it they have half a brain.

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04 May 2018 10:28 #30 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex-pros and cons
Hi MechE.

Thank you for your insights and welcome to TMU’s Forum. :)

We welcome contributors like yourself who have a higher education in materials engineering science. To speak briefly, albeit more generally, to your most recent post, yes, we agree that all elastomers experience compression set and that the problems adriano is experiencing seem to be a failure mode related to compression set of the latex components used in the mattress(es) Adriano purchased. Your suggested ASTM D395 testing performed on samples of the latex materials in the “failed” mattress (provided they are of a size to comply with the D395 testing protocol) by the raw material supplier is excellent advice for Fawcett Mattress as first step on their attempt to solve the mystery associated with the extreme failure mode of these specific mattresses.

Thanks again for visiting TMU. We hope to hear from you again in the future.

Phoenix

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