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Latex mattress failure - twice! 04 May 2018 10:30 #31

Hi adriano.

Based on your recent experiences with the products being made/sold by FawcettMattress, it may be prudent to see a refund and purchase your mattress elsewhere.

While it may be that Fawcett Mattress has not had your problem happen in 35 years, you are at a point where their products have failed twice and they seem to be a loss for the reasons why or for what will remedy the extreme sagging issue in a 3rd attempt. While the “3rd time may be the charm”, Fawcett’s approach to your problems seems to be one of trial and error. The Stearns and Foster brand of mattresses has been around for quite some time (they claim since 1846). As a brand now manufactured by Tempur + Sealy, it is made using high-quality components, but like all mattress brands, it has certain models that perform better than others. I would do two things here – actively research the quality history of each of the specific model(s) you are considering and make sure that the return/refund policy of the retailer provides you with the assurances you seek for your purchase.

Phoenix
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Latex-pros and cons 01 Feb 2019 11:11 #32

Two years ago, using the information I learned here, I purchased a latex mattress.
The pros: My latex mattress is the most comfortable mattress I've ever owned. The cons: I've been struggling trying to correct the heat issues I've been having at night ever since my purchase.

I've read all the temperature regulating posts on this forum which have been quite helpful. I've followed the advice I learned here and replaced sheets, comforters etc. I have experienced some cooling effect, but I am still very uncomfortably warm even during very cold nights. Recently, I've been thinking that I may need to replace the mattress entirely. But, I don't want to give up on latex because it's so comfortable! If it's helpful, here are some details of bedding that I use.
  • The king size mattress was purchased from Dreamfoam bedding. The mattress is one layer and is made of Talay latex with a latex core. The latex layer is lined with pincore holes. The latex layer is placed in a mattress cover that is made of 100% bamboo.
  • The mattress sits on a box spring that has wood slats that are 2.5 inches apart.
  • We removed the mattress protector after speaking with the mattress seller about the temperature issues.
  • Our sheets are Sferra Percale Celeste made of Egyptian Cotton. I've also tried Sferra Giza (which are too pricey) as well as 100% Bamboo sheets. I didn't notice much difference in temperature regulation.
  • We are using a 100% pure wool comforter (light weight) purchased from Holy Lamb organics. The duvet cover is 100% organic cotton.
I am debating whether I should try a different latex mattress that might sleep cooler. Does one exist or is there another problem with my mattress/bedding I've overlooked? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Latex-pros and cons 04 Feb 2019 10:40 #33

Hi tisman91,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Firstly, its a really good thing that you have a mattress that is really comfortable, as you see on these forums some people work really hard to find the right balance. I would be very cautious about a whole new mattress, as it could cause other issues that affect sleep, as you well know. The very good thing about latex is it now envelops your body so much better, which in turn means a higher sq/ ft of your body is touching the mattress, hence you sleep warmer.

Regarding the mattress cover, you mention 100% bamboo, and I am not accusing anyone of anything in particular, but many mfgrs, say "made with bamboo", but in reality, the cover is may be a bamboo / polyester blend. May want to look at the law tag for that. Which by the way I am not saying this is a bad cover, as with many latex mattresses covers that are more stretchy and flexible, which is most likely a knitted fabric, and most knits are blended.

One interesting thing about high-quality sheets and comforters, they are not always the most breathable fabrics. Wool, a wonderful bedding material, is also a great insulator. Another fact about wool is regarding thermal conductivity. Thermal conductivity is a measure of the ability of a material to transfer heat. Given two surfaces on either side of the material with a temperature difference between them, the thermal conductivity is the heat energy transferred per unit time and per unit surface area, divided by the temperature difference. There is some more technical science on this but typically wool has a lower thermal conductivity, basically retains body heat, not allowing it to transfer as well as other fabrics.

I do not have any quick easy solutions, as you will need to try to affect the other variables in the bedroom....temperature of room, air flow, quantity/density of blankets, etc. I am very sensitive to temperature at night, and I truly understand your dilemma. Good luck, I wish I had clearer answers.

Thanks,
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Latex-pros and cons 05 Feb 2019 18:25 #34

Following your advice, I found the law tag. Unfortunately, the tag did not list the materials used in the mattress cover. As a point of clarification, I am calling the mattress cover the encasing that the latex inserts fit into. However, the tag listed the name of the manufacturer. After a few phone calls, the manufacturer gave me the cover's composition. You were absolutely correct! It's actually 57% polyester/nylon, 40% cotton and only 3% bamboo. I was a little surprised at the small amount of bamboo used considering this was a big selling point for me at the time of purchase. Also, the cover has bamboo written all over the outside. I've attached pictures. I feel that the labeling is entirely misleading.

More importantly, I need help finding a solution. I believe there's a high probability that the mattress cover may be the culprit for my warm temperature issues. If I wanted to replace the cover (encasing), what materials would you recommend that would give the highest chance of reducing my temperature issues? Also, can you replace only the cover without buying new latex inserts?
Attachments:
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Latex-pros and cons 07 Feb 2019 07:24 #35

Hey tisman91,

Well, interesting about the cover, misleading and mattress industry sometimes go hand in hand, hence this is what makes TMU so great.

You mention that there is a high probability that this cover "may be the culprit" of the heat issues. I don't see any data or facts that confirm this being the key reason. I am not saying you are wrong, just as an unbiased participant, and looking at the total scope, not sure is the main reason. But as far as mitigating the heat issues of your very comfortable mattress.

Regarding the solution, can you replace the cover, well I guess technically you can, but this is a non-zipper cover so you would be manually changing the by cutting it off or cutting the top part off, and then lose the warranty. Then you would buy a cover on the open market as most traditional manufacturers don't sell "replacement covers.

Regarding what is the best fabric replacement to look for here are some good posts about cooling and fabrics, etc etc. Some of this information may be duplicated but worth getting caught up on.

This post #29 has some good information about heating/cooling/climate of the mattress and associated fabrics.

Additionally, the first half of this post #7 has some great links to more information.

All of this, of course, is separate from any environmental conditions in the bedroom (temperature and humidity levels with higher humidity adding to the perception of heat), on the physiology and tendency of the person themselves to sleep warmer or cooler and where they are in the "oven to iceberg" range, and on their weight and body type which will affect how deeply they sink into the foam layers of the mattress. And also the clothes that you are wearing to bed, as these are closest to the skin, and effect moisture wicking, and breathability.

Hope this helps, some of the members of this site do sell mattress covers and can help you get a new cover or mattress pad if you choose to remove your existing cover.

Thanks
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
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Latex-pros and cons 13 May 2019 08:50 #36

Hi Phoenix,

I'm a side sleeper weighing about 225 lbs. I've had a very hard time finding a mattress that is soft while also providing enough support to align my spine.

Can an all-latex mattress provide enough support for a side sleeper of my weight, or do I really need something with an innerspring support layer?
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Latex-pros and cons 16 May 2019 18:29 #37

Hi HaDov. You are right, it is difficult to find a mattress for you because most are designed for the average person. We tried to address that problem by combining wood on latex with more latex on top of the wood. Our slat system can be used for a person of up to 350lbs without any modifications. What I have learned through a few customers that are in a similar weight range is that a heavier person (i.e. over 200lbs) starts to sink in too much on a softer mattress and therefore does not get proper spinal alignment. I am thinking of a particular person I had in Quebec (Canada), he ended up sleeping on the firm side of our mattress which fixed his trouble with proper spinal alignment. The trick though is that we use Natural Talalay latex which is softer then Dunlop. The Talalay combined with our slat system gave him a soft enough surface with a foundation that is firm enough to align his spine properly.
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Latex-pros and cons 16 May 2019 20:58 #38

Hi HaDov,

Thanks for the post.

Can an all-latex mattress provide enough support for a side sleeper of my weight, or do I really need something with an innerspring support layer?”


In addition to CBH’s input and details of how their systems work for high BMI individuals (Thanks CBH :)), I’ll add that when considering an all latex vs an innerspring the simple answer is that both can provide appropriate support for a side sleeper of your weight. While I’ll spell out some of the differences I’d certainly keep talking to the expert members as they can guide you in this process of fine-tuning it for your own particular needs and preferences.

Both innerspring and a firmer latex core can be used as a support layer and each has very "different" characteristics but besides the more obvious ones the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both of them come in softer or firmer versions and in many different designs so an innerspring could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more about the 4 main types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .

Other technical differences are as follows:

Innersprings absorb less energy than latex which means they are more resilient. They "push back" more strongly than latex in other words but this is not the same as softness ... only about how much of the energy that is used to compress them is lost (or how high a ball will bounce when it's dropped on them).

Latex has a similar or higher compression modulus than most innerspring spring rates and either gets firmer with deeper compression at a similar rate as an innerspring (Talalay) or at a faster rate than an innerspring (Dunlop) which means it can be more "supportive".

Different innersprings have widely different abilities to take on the shape of the body (depending on the number of coils and how independently they function) while latex is much more "point elastic" than any of them because it can flex in each part of the core with less effect on the area around it than an innerspring.

In general, latex will be more motion isolating than an innerspring.

Firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.

Innersprings have more "air" in them so they would be more breathable than latex even though latex is the most breathable of the foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers.

Most latex is more expensive than most innersprings.

They "feel" very different with innersprings being more "bouncy" or "springy" than latex (although latex has more "spring" than other foam types).

There are many other more technical differences but the most important differences are the ones you can feel. Either of them can make a good choice for a support layer and in the end, it really boils down to which one you tend to prefer. Both of them can provide good/support alignment. There are so many varieties of both that it's not really possible to make more specific comparisons outside of some of the more obvious and more "generic" differences that I've mentioned.

Making more generalized assessments of a mattress only based on one component doesn't take into account that all the layers in a mattress work together and will affect its feel and performance so either one could be part of a mattress that provides you with your pressure relief and alignment/support needs. Assuming that all the materials in a mattress are high quality ... everything boils down to which mattress design works best for the two basic functions of a mattress .

Good luck, and let us know if you have more questions.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
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Latex-pros and cons 27 Jul 2019 16:25 #39

Hi,
I've often seen that latex is one of the more durable mattress materials, but I've been having issues with that recently. About two years ago, I purchased a latex mattress - a flippable one with a 4" firmer support core and 2" of softer latex glued to both sides. I don't know the ILDs, but I would have called them at least medium firmness out of the bag. To my understanding all the layers are 100% natural Dunlop latex, possibly GOLS certified but I was never able to find our particular model online. The mattress is a queen size, and is set on a narrowly-spaced wooden slat system that more than meets the specs I've seen required by any manufacturer (3/4" boards, 3 1/2" wide, spaced about 1" apart, with a center rail).

My wife and I are both side sleepers. I'm about 5'9" and 175 lbs, she's about 5'4" and 170 lbs. At first, the mattress felt too firm for her, and was causing pressure points on her shoulders and hips. We got a 2" Dunlop topper from the same manufacturer as the mattress (they don't work in Talalay or we would have considered that). This helped a bit, but within a month or two it had developed soft spots around hip level, which led to a sort of 'bowl-like' feeling when laying on the mattress since the shoulder and knee areas were still firmer. This uneven support was causing both of us neck, rib, back, and hip discomfort which progressed to pain as the unevenness increased. Since the topper was so new, we were able to swap the topper under warranty for a new 3" one in hopes that it would not wear out as quickly; it lasted longer than the 2", but soon started to soften around the hips as well.

We removed the topper one night to see how things felt, it turned out that by now, the mattress had softened up enough that we could sleep directly on it comfortably. However, even that only lasted some months before the mattress itself started becoming soft around the hips like the toppers had. We were able to get more use out of it by flipping and rotating the mattress, but we had to do so far more frequent than the manufacturer's suggestion of a few times per year - once every week or two at first, later once or twice each night to try to get the pain and discomfort low enough to fall asleep. The visible impressions in the mattress are not more than 1/2", but the firmness (and consequently support) varies so much that we just can't use it anymore. We've gone back to the mattress we had previously replaced - a poly foam mattress that was showing similar support 'dishing' to what our latex is now, though to a lesser extent. That one took five years to get to that point, and the five-year lifespan was the reason we thought we should upgrade to latex, as it's supposed to be more durable than poly foam. The old mattress is working for now but isn't great and we want to find a replacement ASAP.

Basically, we're at a loss as to why our current mattress and topper are acting like this. We had a previous 3" Talalay latex topper that lasted us for several years on a firm mattress before wearing out, and that mattress was wool and foam construction and didn't actually lose support - we just had to sell it when we moved. Now, we're left wondering why this material which seems to be so durable for everyone else is going from too firm to unevenly soft so quickly. Without any real insight as to why this happened, it's making us question the durability of latex, or for that matter, other materials classified as 'durable'. It's also making it hard to commit to buying anything, since we have no confidence anymore that a mattress that feels good now won't be painful in a year. And if latex wears out that quickly, will anything else last longer for us? Did we just get some products from a bad batch? Was it possibly partially synthetic latex or otherwise less durable than usual? Is it actually not worn out, and just broken in unevenly due to something we've done or something about us? Does Dunlop wear that much differently than Talalay, making it just the wrong choice for us? I don't really expect that anyone is going to be able to answer all of these questions for our specific case, but I just wanted to illustrate our current situation and any insight into what might be going on would be greatly appreciated!
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Latex-pros and cons 30 Jul 2019 11:23 #40

Hi huliyska,

Welcome to our mattress forum :).

Thanks for the post. That is very interesting, and a bit unusual. I assume you purchased the mattress at a local retailer? What store? By any chance do you mind looking on the law tag, it may give us some information about the manufacturer, which in turn, we may know about the source of the latex they use or used in the past? Flippable mattress meant that the 2" soft latex was the same ild on both sides? Was the cover a sewn shut cover? What was in the quilt? No ILD or denstiy information on the topper either? 4" Latex firm piece? was this one-piece or two two-inch pieces, most latex comes from the factory in 6" heights, so this means that many times they use 2 layers to make up the 4"...

Seems like a mattress that some of the Factory Direct stores in the midwest. Possibly you don't want to mention the manufacturer, I understand, it's your choice.

Summary of latex complaints:

This helped a bit, but within a month or two it had developed soft spots around hip level, which led to a sort of 'bowl-like' feeling when laying on the mattress since the shoulder and knee areas were still firmer


However, even that only lasted some months before the mattress itself started becoming soft around the hips like the toppers had. We were able to get more use out of it by flipping and rotating the mattress, but we had to do so far more frequent than the manufacturer's suggestion of a few times per year - once every week or two at first, later once or twice each night to try to get the pain and discomfort low enough to fall asleep. The visible impressions in the mattress are not more than 1/2", but the firmness (and consequently support) varies so much that we just can't use it anymore



Generally speaking, as we know from thousands of consumers, and industry info, we know the data is very good about latex durability. I totally understand why you would be gun shy, makes sense, as your description is not normal. Also, to be technically correct, all foam, latex included, will soften some % over time. In almost all cases this is very gradual and subtle and not noticed by consumers.

One thing that has happened to all latex manufacturers in the past is an very very small % of times....an issue with "curing" of latex, no matter Dunlop Talalay 100% Natural or Blended. Some latex factories around the world are better at this than others, it's a technical process, some Asian companies will let them sit for 48 hours after production just to be safe.

Think of queen mold as a waffle maker...one pours in liquid, close mold, add heat....if one removed the waffle too early, what part is too soft? The middle!!! Right where your hips are.

I have been in and around a lot of latex factories, and many times this is not noticeable until the quality department can cut the core open and look at the foam. It can seem like a first quality foam, but there was some issue in the vulcanization process.

Let me know if you have any of the other info about the mattress.

Thanks,
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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