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Mattress comfort layers - latex

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21 Dec 2018 01:33 #41 by Administrator TMU
Hello David,

Thank you for visiting The Mattress Underground. The term "Blended" when is comes to latex foam (this applies to bot the Talalay and Dunlop process for making latex foam) has to do with the make up of the latex formula used to make the latex foam. Blended means that the latex used in the latex foam is a blend of natural and synthetic latex.
There are 2 types of the raw latex material component, natural latex which is harvested from the rubber tree (Hevea brasiliensis) and synthetic latex which is man-made, synthesized from petroleum. The core component of latex is a material compound called isoprene. Natural latex uses the naturally occurring organic compound produced in the rubber tree. Synthetic latex uses a man-made version of the isoprene compound. Blended latex is a mixture of the two types of latex. Blended latex is the most widely used formula type as it is seen to provide the benefits of each type of latex, specifically being more durable and more consistent while providing high levels of comfort and support.

TMU Admin

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31 Dec 2018 17:35 #42 by Bro240
So I've decided on a latex mattress. However, I'm basically down to the Sleep on Latex, Spindle or Sleep EZ. The sleep on latex is the cheapest, and I can't really tell what I'm giving up. The others are around $500 more. Is there something I'm missing? I see they are all listed as trusted members so it seems like I'm choosing between good/good/good, just want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything by spending more.

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01 Jan 2019 10:38 #43 by Q8canuck
Hello again Phoenix,
I’ve taken some time to review all the suggested links from your previous reply, and we’ve also logged another month of sleep on our “new” latex mattress from Sleep Ez.
Our split king is 3 layers of 3” latex as follows:
Bottom layer both sides: firm Dunlop
Middle layer my side: medium Talalay, hubby has medium Dunlop
Top layer both sides: soft Talalay
The mattress sits on a plywood base in our bed frame, has a 1” wool cover and an additional quilted mattress pad I added for extra top cushioning.
After 60 days sleep on my configuration, I feel that I could be sinking too far into my middle layer of Medium Tallalay and wonder if changing to a medium Dunlop layer would make any difference. Would this be where the difference in ILDs between medium Dunlop and Talalay becomes significant?
My primary concern is whether the middle medium talalay layer on my side is sufficient support for a “generous” side sleeper, and would there be significant difference in changing it to a medium Dunlop layer?
I prefer a “sink in” feel for comfort, so have not really considered changing my top layer of soft Tallalay, but do have the option of changing to a Dunlop Soft if that would be more helpful than changing the middle layer.
We have 30 days remaining in our exchange window.
Recently we decided to swivel the mattress around so I could test hubby’s side with the medium Dunlop middle layer and although it’s been only a week, my perception is a firmer feel of support. Is this my imagination, or is there enough difference between the specs for medium Dunlop and medium Talalay to be noticeable? I know the composition is different, but do the numbers indicate a significant variance? Do different retailers have different specs for their Dunlop and talalay or is this a standard industry specification?
Once again, I appreciate the time it takes for you to digest and respond to all the individual queries you receive.Your specific replies are very helpful in making (and fine tuning) the numerous decisions in the search for perfect rest.

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04 Jan 2019 18:44 #44 by Phoenix
Hi Q8canuck.

Glad to hear that you “logged another month of sleep on your new” mattress with no major setbacks. It seems that your hubby still enjoys his well-crafted side :) but you still have some doubts as to your layering appropriateness.

I feel that I could be sinking too far into my middle layer of Medium Tallalay and wonder if changing to a medium Dunlop layer would make any difference. Would this be where the difference in ILDs between medium Dunlop and Talalay becomes significant? ... Is this my imagination, or is there enough difference between the specs for medium Dunlop and medium Talalay to be noticeable?


Talalay will weigh less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material because it has more air in it and the same ILD Dunlop is denser than Talalay. This is the basis for the angel food cake vs the pound cake analogy on our site. It will certainly feel a bit more supportive to most people … with some more sensitive individuals reporting that this made just the right amount of difference to achieve the ideal softens/firmness for them, but of course, this is not an exact science because this is dependent on so many personal and other interrelated variables. The best way to ensure that this would work out for you is (...as you did) to “borrow” the medium Dunlop from your hubby’s side and test it for long enough to ensure that the signals that your body sends you are consistent before you decide on the new layer exchange. You do not seem to experience pains at this time but I always tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to support as a primary concern so it is nice to see that you are reassessing the support issue especially as you also added a pad...but I'd also keep in mind that sometimes our bodies take a little longer to “accept” a change and get used to it, but once again only you can be the judge of this.

I know the composition is different, but do the numbers indicate a significant variance? Do different retailers have different specs for their Dunlop and talalay or is this a standard industry specification?


There is no real industry standard as it comes to ILDs for the different types of latex, from different sources, which may also use different ways of testing it. When it comes to ILDs your own experience is much more meaningful than the ILD numbers (which by themselves can act just as pointers because other specs such as the thickness of the layer, compression modulus, point elasticity and more are just as important to how soft or firm a mattress feels than ILD specs alone). There is more about this in post #2 here and there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here All in all it is partly science and partly an art to "imagine" and predict how the layers of a mattress will interact together and with your individual body shape, weight distribution, and sleeping position. The good news is that you are already close enough to your ideal configuration and I’d make sure to seek a last word of advice from SleepEZ themselves as they would have all the information that would help make any meaningful comparisons between types of latex from different sources. (They have 4 different sources for their latex .. and all would feel slightly different in the same ILD)

While my thoughts are of course generalizations and cannot replace your personal experience, I hope that they are helpful in deciding on this last eventual layering change. I am looking forward to any further updates you may have.

Phoenix

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22 Jan 2019 10:04 #45 by Demill1866
Above you wrote the following:

"This also makes thicker, and in some cases more pressure relieving, comfort layers possible when needed or preferable without the same degree of risk that a thicker "pillowtop" or "eurotop" comfort layer will put your spine out of alignment." .

Just wondering if that means having a 3" soft comfort layer in the mattress proper vesus having the same 3" layer in a topper would be better for spinal alignment (all other layers being the same). If so, why is this?

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23 Jan 2019 08:00 #46 by Sensei
Hi Demill1866,

Thanks or the question. Regarding the topper in the mattress proper, or used as a topper. The answer is not better or worse, only that it will feel different, and align you differently.

A topper within a mattress, connected to the other layers, and finished in a cover will be firmer than if one had a topper separate "on top" of the mattress. The "topper" is loose, more flexible, and will feel and support differently than in the proper mattress. So depending on the person's weight, height, etc, could be better or worse.

Thanks
Sensei

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03 Mar 2019 16:52 - 03 Mar 2019 19:18 #47 by lotus14
I am getting ready to diy a latex mattress. I am considering using 3-3" "Latex Mattress Topper by Nature Pure" layers from foamorder.com . I purchased some 9" thick upholstery foam from them 3 years ago. They were very helpful and the sofa feels almost like the day I reassembled the cushions.

Has anyone bought latex from them?

I am a 5'7" 142 lbs. side sleeper. I have a lot of shoulder pain when sleeping so I need a very plush mattress.

Their GOLS dunlop soft is rated at 11-18 ILDs. Is it even possible to make dunlop that soft???

My planned build would be med (24-28), soft, soft. I am assuming their latex is a bit firmer than advertised. Or perhaps firm, med, soft inside the encasement, and a soft 3" topper.

Any help or advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated!
Last edit: 03 Mar 2019 19:18 by lotus14. Reason: Clarity

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04 Mar 2019 11:11 #48 by Jill71rdh
I hate to hijack the topic but I have questions about the comfort layer as well. I have the Ultimate Hybrid in Soft (19 ILD). I sleep on my stomach and side and it gives me hip pain when I am on my side. I think the wool blend in the mattress cover makes it firmer and I also feel the coils make it firmer. I was given he advice on here and by Ken to get an additional 2 inch topper. I know Arizona Mattresses only has 19 ILD but I was wondering if I should get a 14 ILD or if that will be too soft. I just don't know if another 19 ILD will be the same "feel" as I have now or will help because there are more layers until the coils by adding another 2 inches, as well as the cover I got (I already purchased the cover as I bought a memory foam topper to try since they can be returned. My husband and I both hated sinking into the memory foam and not being able to move so I returned it) is a bamboo/cotton blend and not wool like the mattress cover. I have been obsessing about this topper for months now but I obsessed with the mattress and ended up slightly disappointed since it is a bit too firm. I just hate to end up with the wrong topper that I can't return.

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04 Mar 2019 15:49 #49 by Sensei
Hi Jill71rdh,

I responded on the other thread, but now you have returned the memory foam.

First of all, I understand your reluctance to not do "another 3" 19ild" and being a little concerned with 14ILD being too soft.

Adding another 3" 19ild will definitely change the feel of this mattress....100%. I can't guarantee it will be the right fit for you, but it will change it. As it's talked about here in differential construction , you can use one ild product and just need to find the right height needs for your body.

You could use any of these - 3" 24ild , or 2 or 3" 28ild, .. and use as a transition layer underneath the 19ild. This may then give you enough of the progressive feel that will help with hip pain. Please also read about progressive construction to build up layers properly.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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04 Mar 2019 16:49 #50 by Sensei
Hi lotus14,

Sounds exciting, the start of the DIY latex mattress.

Hopefully some of the members here that have purchased from Foamorder will see your post and share their comments but in the meantime a forum search on foamorder (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. Even though they aren't a member of the site (at least yet) ... I think highly of Foamorder as well and I would certainly consider them to be a reliable supplier.

Their GOLS dunlop soft is rated at 11-18 ILDs. Is it even possible to make dunlop that soft???



Well yes they can be that low, but the real question/problem is exactly what specific testing does the latex producer do to reach the ILD rating. The definition of ild on foamorder's site is a little too simplistic, and imo wrong. ILD, short for indentation force deflection, is an ASTM standard measuring the amount of force it takes to compress the material by 25% and the other is the amount of force it takes to compress the same material by 40% (which of course would produce higher numbers). Secondly is the producer using 6" height foam, and another uses 3" height foam, the ILD's are different for the SAME foam. There are a lot of other articles about this all over the TMU site.

Also make sure you check out the foamorder return policy before purchasing. Really it is hard to give anyone one hard and fst advice on the right 3" layers for you, only you can do that. My personal rule is the bottom 3" at firm is better for durability, then you need to go from there to see what best for you. Also if you are so inclined you can check out our trusted members as many of them have years of experience with DIY latex mattresses.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions, and let us know if you have any more questions.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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