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normal Mattress comfort layers - latex

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09 Mar 2019 21:32 - 09 Mar 2019 21:38 #71 by Q8canuck

Info on pricing....
Hello Alex13,
In November we purchased a split king latex mattress in Arizona.
Don’t know the ILD numbers but comprised as follows....
Bottom layer on both sides: 3” Dunlop Firm
Middle on side A: 3” Dunlop Medium, side B: Talalay Medium
Top on both sides: 3” Talalay (blended).
Comfort layer: 1” wool bonded to quilted cotton cover, not organic.
Total of 10”. Individual pieces were not encased in thin cover...just raw foam layered inside the quilted cover.
For this configuration we paid US$1895, less a 10% TMU discount, plus taxes... just under US$1850. Vendor offered 60 day exchange policy to trade out any layer for nominal fee, which we did not use.
Hope this info helps in your price comparison, although it’s not comparing apples to apples because I don’t know the ILDs.
Other differences: your layers are individually encased in mesh, your 5” base layer is not latex, your total height is 9” vs 10”, and your zippered cover is organic cotton, ours isn’t. All these factors also affect the price of your mattress compared to ours. But at least you can decide if your pricing is close in value or not. I hope you will be as happy with your new mattress as we are with ours.
Finally enjoying good rest,
C.S.

Last edit: 09 Mar 2019 21:38 by Q8canuck. Reason: Typos.

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11 Mar 2019 23:11 #72 by lotus14

Hi All,

Still researching latex options for my diy project (might need some Dramamine ^.~ ) and came across Vytex. It's attractive for several reasons, possibly less smell issues, price, free returns, and a broad range of ILDs.

Looks interesting but not much info on the web about it. It's almost as if the common review sites don't mention it because it almost sounds like it's not latex. It is of course - their toppers are dunlop process done in Vietnam with the extra step to remove allergy causing proteins. Or perhaps the quality is low and so it's ignored?


TMU only has a few references to it from 5 or 6 years ago. Like some reviewers on Amazon, grainy and crumbly has been used to describe it, though overall Amazon reviewers seem to like it. Anyone have more recent experience with it?

I'd love to hear from anyone that has thoughts about using Vytex for my diy mattress.

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12 Mar 2019 14:33 #73 by Sensei

Hey lotus14,

Yes Vytex, it has been around for a few years, but the company that manages the distribution has done an inadequate job marketing their product, as well as sourcing there product. Vytex is actually a public company, so one can read about their technology, its really a penny stock at this time. I believe the listing is under VYST for Vystar Corporation.

They have struggled with finding the proper latex source, few years ago, they used a Dunlop process factory out of Guatemala, that factory closed, then they switched to one of the Italian mfgrs, something happened with that partnership, and now they have settled on Lien A out of Vietnam. Lien A is a good factory, makes very good quality 100% Natural Dunlop process material. Particularly high-quality Dunlop in softer densities, like 55 and 65 kg/m3. With or without Vytex, this factory is getting some placement. Regarding the quality of Vytex, there has not been a lot of public data that says the "quality" of the core for sleeping is better. I certainly believe that there will be fewer proteins in the finished product, as the technology states. I will be interested in hearing any feedback you have if you get a chance to try this material. Thanks for the inquiry, I think over time we will hear more about the Lien A product, not sure on the Vytex / Lien A as Vytex has had many starts and stops in the past 4 or 5 years.

Thanks again,

Sensei


Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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12 Mar 2019 16:02 #74 by lotus14

Thanks Sensei, that's good to hear about Lien A making a good product, especially in the lower densities which is hard to do with dunlop. I read somewhere their ability to do this was a "game-changer." I also know there a few mattress and futon companies using Vytex, but still there isn't much to go on for durability except for Lien A's rep.

Vytex may get some much needed exposure since it slowly started getting traction on Amazon about a year ago. Amazon buyers are naturally hesitant on a big purchase that only has 20 reviews vs. Sleep On Latex's 552.

Also, this release talks about their soft launch of a bed in a box:
www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/...Box-via-Rotmans.html

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13 Mar 2019 16:19 #75 by lotus14

Hi Sensei,

Got this from Vytex after asking about ILDs:

"Hi David,
We use density because we are all natural. Its hard to tell ILD's because generally that's a blend or synthetic. I would say this gives a close range.
Super soft 55D = 12ILD+
Soft 65D = 14-19 ILD
Med 75D 23ILD - 26ILD
Firm 85D = 29ILD - 31ILD"

I have no idea what they mean about ILDs not relevant to 100% natural latex.

I have even less of an idea of how to convert density to ILDs.
Does this make sense to you?

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14 Mar 2019 16:53 #76 by Sensei

Hey Lotus,

Well does it make sense? Most of it not really, some of it, yes it makes sense.

Most all Dunlop process companies around the world sell on density, this is very common, but almost all of the factories have testing equipment that provides a range of ILD averages for each Density. We do have some contact with the Lien A USA people and I sent email to see if I can get the info the factory provides.

The fact that it is 100% natural has no bearing on whether a latex core can be ILD tested. I do not recommend one trying to convert density to ILD. Of course, there is some statistical correlation to weight and ILD, but it differs for each manufacturer, differs for 100% natural and Blended (formula), and differs between Talalay and Dunlop (process). I would say that the "Firm 85D" would feel very similar to other 100% natural firm 85D products from India and Sri Lanka. I think you have tried some of the organic versions from our members. I am sure the ILD's listed are close, but I am hesitant about the 85D being only 29-31 ILD.

Dunlop and Talalay aren't directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material, see post #4 here .

Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in see post #7 here.

And a little more info about ILD's / different formulas and processes here post #6 here.

You may have read these links already but wanted to share for the rest of the people, it brings up a good topic not always well understood. Thanks, I will send update when we receive any info from Lien A.

Thanks again.

Sensei


Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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14 Mar 2019 23:10 #77 by lotus14

Thanks for the detailed reply and the links Sensei.

Vytex's statement: "We use density because we are all natural. Its hard to tell ILD's because generally that's a blend or synthetic" is disingenuous at best. All of the suppliers I've looked at (including GOLS dunlop) either post ILDs or reply with them when asked. Doesn't help that on Vytex's 4 Amazon product pages they give different answers to the ILD question for the same product. No wonder they're struggling in what should be an easy market for them.

So I ordered 4 layers from them! Placed order Sunday night and received them today. Very fast.

No issues with dry, crumbling latex - seems very fresh and very little odor. All the layers had "Lien A 100% Natural Latex" molded into them except the x-soft which was ink stamped. Also the x-soft had a 12" piece glued down one side and a 4" piece glued down the other. Not a deal-breaker, just seems sloppy.

I used a very unscientific method to check ILDs. A 15 lb dumbbell, straightedge, and ruler to compare the indentations to the Sleeping Organic layers I had before boxing them up to send back. Would've been a good mattress for me except for the thick, heavy cover.

The x-soft Vytex was slightly softer than the SO x-soft Talalay (14-18.) Felt very slightly softer with a light hand press, but as you pointed out, when I pressed more firmly there was a point when the Vytex began to feel firmer. The other layers all seem just slightly firmer than the ratings given. Except the firm which you were correct about as well. It is much closer to 40 than 30. I'm curious to hear what Lien A has to say.

Pretty sure some combination of 3 of the 4 layers will make a very good mattress for me. Still have a couple of weeks before my knit ticking and wool arrives from DIY Bedding. Not their fault - I ordered the wrong thing and they were kind enough to correct my error at no cost to me.

Tonight I'll take the med, soft, x-soft placed inside a 6-sided breathable, waterproof top encasement with a medium weight mattress pad for a test drive. Feels good to my shoulders and hips but perhaps not enough support.

Final takeaway in case anyone's still reading this overlong post: Vytex seems to make a good topper that's not just for someone with latex allergies. Ships in 24 hrs, free returns, and good pricing. A 3" queen medium is $245.

Be well.

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15 Mar 2019 10:41 #78 by dls1212

Thanks for the updated information on the Vytex layers that you purchased. I'd be interested in hearing how you like your bed once assembled with the cover.

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15 Mar 2019 12:56 #79 by lotus14

Be happy to dls1212.

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16 Mar 2019 12:06 #80 by Sensei

Hey lotus14,

Thanks for the update, and the additional information on the Vytex. I am quite impressed with your homemade ild technique, at least for comparing specific layers you own.

The x-soft Vytex was slightly softer than the SO x-soft Talalay (14-18.) Felt very slightly softer with a light hand press, but as you pointed out, when I pressed more firmly there was a point when the Vytex began to feel firmer. The other layers all seem just slightly firmer than the ratings given. Except the firm which you were correct about as well. It is much closer to 40 than 30. I'm curious to hear what Lien A has to say.



Very interesting about the xsoft versus the 14-18 ILD talalay, and I am not surprised about the layers feeling a little firmer than the ratings, you have the history of being able to compare with different layers from diff manufacturers.

Looking forward to how it works out, and I will update Lien A when I receive info.

Thanks,
Sensei


Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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