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Mattress comfort layers - latex

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24 Mar 2019 17:13 - 24 Mar 2019 17:23 #91 by lotus14
Also, is there any reason to prefer Radium or Talalay Global?

What's the deal with Radium's cradle to cradle gold cert?
Last edit: 24 Mar 2019 17:23 by lotus14.

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26 Mar 2019 12:28 #92 by Sensei
Hey lotus14,

That is interesting that it "softened" so noticeably after a few days. What is the height of the 19ILD blended? Of course, the 100% nat version was N1 or N2? Do you recall?

does that statement maybe come from testing done by manufacturers on long term experience?



Yes you are 100% correct about your question/statement, the latex manufacturers usually test long term data and measure softening, and loss of height. The two most common mattress industry test are what is called the Cornell test and the Rollator test.
The Hexagonal Roller is a 240 lb hex shaped roller that moves back and forth across the width of the mattress (simulating typical sleep movement).

The Cornell test represents the human posterior and applies a 230 lb load to the mattress surface in a cyclic pounding format (simulating everything from sitting in bed reading a book to the occasional “trampoline” use). Firmness and thickness measurements are obtained to assess the amount of change that is brought on by the testing. A report summarizing the results includes a Compliance Percentage rating which gauges the sample’s performance compared with industry norms. In addition, a SCORE value is generated quantifying the amount of change the sample experienced as compared to its initial state. This is especially helpful when comparing the results of other mattress designs tested in the same way.

But to your issue/question, a key point re. softening: With latex softening will happen quicker in lower density products, all other variables kept equal. I am willing to bet the 19ild blended Talalay is the lowest density latex you have ever tried, (unless you tried 14ild Talalay). A 19ild 100% natural Talalay will be higher density, which short term would most likely not soften as quick as a 19ild blended. Theoretically, can't say I have ever seen that specific test. That said, your product could be on the low side of Talalay range.

Regarding TG and Radium (Vita Talalay), TMU does not ever give a preference, these are the only two legitimate Talalay manufacturers in the world, and both make excellent products. The small differences I am sure you have read about on this forum.

Regarding's Radium's cradle to grave natural product, it's actually officially called a Cradle to Cradle certification, see the Vita Talalay cradle to cradle page , here is the C2C certification company page C2C website about certification, and here is Radium's / Vita's certificate link.

Thanks, sorry a bit long winded...

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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26 Mar 2019 16:53 #93 by lotus14
Thanks for your detailed response Sensei!

The 19 is 3".

My Sleeping Organic mattress had a top layer of 14-19 ILD NR talalay. It softened gradually over a few weeks. The Sleep On Latex topper I used trying to make a too firm Zenhaven work was 2" 20 ILD dunlop. It too softened gradually over a few weeks. Seemed softer than 20 but that was probably because it wan't in a mattress cover, just their thin, stretchy topper cover. Nice topper.

I received four 3" layers of this blended talalay drop shipped from TG. 3 of the layers had well adhered (would have to tear latex to remove them) stickers with 9 test results on them. For example the 24 listed 23.7, 24.5, etc. etc. All were within 1 point of the target on all 3. The layer in question, the 19 ILD, did not have any sticker, not even a QC one. It just had 19 written on one end with a sharpie. Didn't pass testing? Probably has nothing to do with it but I suppose I'll never know.

Very interesting that blended is less dense than NR. Probably going with dunlop, dunlop, NR talalay for my DIY since I've had good luck with that combo.

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27 Mar 2019 16:21 #94 by Sensei
Hey lotus14,

Thanks.

Regarding those stickers, they are legendary in the oem mattress world, so hard to tear off...but it is great data to check. Regarding the other piece, very often the aides are trimmed, and having the label side trimmed is really actually normal. But, easy to wonder, I get it.

Just quick point regarding the Blended / Natural density...its lower density statistically speaking with "same ILD" (19ild NR vs 19ild Blend), obviously as density is a weight measurement, but just being clear for many of our other readers not as versed in latex.

I like the combo with the NR talalay on top. Let us know how it works.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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27 Mar 2019 21:40 - 27 Mar 2019 21:40 #95 by Kim68
Hello,

I hope I'm posting this question in the right place. We have decided on a latex mattress and I've been doing my homework reading this site and calling companies to ask questions. :-)
I've read that Talalay feels "springier", so I was thinking of going with all Talalay.

About us:
I am 5'2" 235 lbs, side sleeper. I prefer a softer, more cushy mattress.
Hubby is 6' 325 lbs, back sleeper. He prefers a med-firm mattress.

I've received recommendations from two companies based on our weights and sleep styles:

#1 from FoamSweetFoam (both sides, no side customization available that I know of)
Talalay med
Talalay firm
Dunlop xfirm
Dunlop xxfirm

#2 from Sleep EZ
Top: Blended Talalay - Medium | Firm
2nd: 100% Natural Dunlop - Medium | Firm
3rd: 100% Natural Dunlop - Firm | Extra Firm
Bottom: 100% Natural Dunlop - Extra Firm | Extra Firm

Then I found Flexus Comfort. They seem to offer the choice to have all layers in Talalay, so I configured this (have not talked with them yet, planning to call tomorrow):
Soft | Medium100% Natural Talalay
Medium| Firm100% Natural Talalay
Firm | Firm100% Natural Talalay
X-Firm| X-Firm100% Natural Talalay
Dunlop is an option from Flexus as well, but I wonder if all Talalay would work for us?

I would appreciate any guidance on what layers to choose. I like Flexus Comfort best of all three I think, since the cost for natural talalay is better. Sleep EZ had about a $500 difference when I switched from blended to natural for the top layer. I think Foamsweetfoam is out, since I will probably want to customize each side.

Thank you in advance for any help!
Last edit: 27 Mar 2019 21:40 by Kim68.

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28 Mar 2019 21:57 #96 by lotus14
Hi Sensei,

I didn't realize there is a density difference between NR and blended talalay. Just knew about dunlop vs talalay.

Discovered why my 19 blended softened after only 2 nights. Received my ticking and was surprised at how much that tightened the mattress up, even though it's just stretchy knit cotton, no wool. Rotated the layer and have slept on it for 4 or 5 nights. The side I'm on now has changed little, the other side still feels slightly softer. So I guess I learned a way to speed the break-in of latex - take the cover off!

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30 Mar 2019 16:51 #97 by Sensei
Hi Kim68,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you so much for your questions, and well done with all the research and contacting the companies and asking questions. Of course, as you have probably read on here, only you and your husband will be the only ones to be able to decide what is best for you both. It is really a combination of all the factors in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hope).

All of the mattresses listed are of high quality and high-quality materials. Regarding an all talalay mattress, I think it is a very good alternative and no reason why you should not consider it. It is very common for many manufacturers to offer Dunlop Latex as the "core" and Talalay latex as comfort layers. I say this in very general terms as many people have been very happy on "all talalay" latex mattresses....usually cost is the major reason people buy and many companies "offer" Dunlop and Talalay mixed.

Regarding the Talalay mix of 12 inches of latex, I would use Xfirm for both bottom layers, still no problem using top two layers of Firm/Med or Med/Soft for "softer" side.

The other two recommendations are solid, the only thing I would caution, is that for higher BMI customers, you may be receiving "firmer" recommendations, but you know that you like something a bit softer.

You have a good group of solid choices from three of our trusted members , so you are on the right track. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks again for posting with us.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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30 Mar 2019 17:27 #98 by Sensei
Hey lotus14,

Thanks for that update, and it does make sense that "breaking in" would be quicker without cover. And it is always amazing for people doing DIY latex mattresses....totally different feel with a cover. Regardless of the weight of cover, the feel will always firm up when covering the latex layers. Good stuff thanks for the update.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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30 Mar 2019 20:48 #99 by lotus14
Hi Kim68,

Another trusted member who can make any split configuration you want is Sleeping Organic.

I found their advice regarding layers to be very good. They were really easy to work with, shipped quickly, and in general were a good company to business with.

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02 Apr 2019 09:41 #100 by Sensei
Hey lotus14,

Thanks for the note on Sleeping Organic, always nice to have a consumer put a good word in for recommendations to another consumer. I totally agree with you also.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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