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After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 08 Jul 2013 18:37 #1

After almost 10 years I’m doing research again on a new queen size mattress for our guest room. Jeff Scheuer on one of his Beducation videos recommended this website. www.matt-to-go.com/Beducation_Videos.htm
This is what the other mattress forum should have evolved into. I was a member of that forum back in 2003-2004. Back then latex mattresses took a back seat to inner spring and memory foam mattresses, but that seems to be changing.

Even though I worked as a chemist for a large chemical corporation that manufactured isocyanates and polyols for polyurethane products, and knew the limitations of pu foam, in 2004 we purchased a queen Sealy Newport Reflections latex mattress set. My wife insisted that we try the mattress out before we bought it. Maybe we got lucky, but the mattress will soon be 10 years old and it has held up very well, no indentations or sagging. We turn the mattress every 3 months. We have the matching Sealy foundation and a heavy duty steel, head to toe center beam, 1 center + 6 legs, frame.

Yes, the mattress is not all latex. It is ~10.5” high. The comfort layer is 2” of stitched in pu foam and 1” of 19 ILD Talalay latex. The core is 7.5” of 34 ILD Dunlop latex surrounded by a 4” wide HD pu foam racetrack edge. According to Sealy the HD pu foam edge was added to give it more edge support. The problem with this is that it reduces the width of the Dunlop core to 52”. Sealy could have had a great latex mattress if they would have just replaced the pu foam in the comfort layer with latex, but as with any big corporation it’s all about the bottom line.

You may have noticed that some pu foam products, i.e., foam lined speakers, old car seats, do not like high humidity. The foam turns very soft and in extreme cases to dust. We keep the humidity in our house low, and instead of making the bed right after we get up we turn it down and let it air out for a few hours. I’ve heard that this is a common practice with Brits.

Pete Cancelli (The Mattress Expert), who has an online blog, has suggested to those complaining about sagging Sealy Reflections that instead of replacing it, turn the mattress over and try sleeping on the Dunlop latex core side, and if this is too firm add a latex topper to it. He also has an online store where he sells the S brands and latex mattresses, EverEden? and pure LatexBliss. I have not checked if his prices are competitive. As of 2004 he also had a b&m store in Cherry Hill, NJ. Back in 2004 Pete was very helpful in getting me the specs for the Reflection mattresses. For the record, I am not affiliated with him or his business. www.themattressexpert.com/

So for the new mattress I’m staying clear of all the S brands and going with an adjustable all latex mattress from an online store. I have read all the articles and the forum latex mattress posts. Great info and the 5% discount from member retailers is a plus. We live in the Knoxville/Maryville TN area and although our cost of living is one of the lowest in the country are sales tax is high, 9.75% (7% state + 2.75% county). So buying from an online mattress retailer that does not charge sales tax in TN is a big additional saving.

Although this is going to be a guest room mattress, my wife wants again to try before we buy. The Bed Store, www.bedstore.com/ , a local chain mattress retailer in TN, sells pure LatexBliss mattresses. We tried out the Pamper and Nutrition models. Unfortunately those are the only models they carry. Thanks Phoenix for providing the specs. The salesman was clueless. www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/8539-new-plb-blue-specs.html#8542 We both agreed that the Pamper was too firm and the Nutrition was a bit too soft. Since this is going to be in the quest room we would probably go with something between the two, like their Nature model.
The Bed Store’s best price for the Pamper queen was $1948., $600.for the PLB Latex base + 9.75% sales tax. Ouch! It was definitely worth the time though to try them out.

I made an Excel spreadsheet listing the pros and cons of various online latex mattress retailers and narrowed it down to a few that I thought were the best bang for your buck. The differences between them are mainly in their comfort exchange costs and policies, warranties (read the fine print), the 5% member discount, and prices for comparable mattresses. I’m not getting into details. They can be found on their websites.
www.brooklynbedding.com/ 10” Queen Total latex mattress, $1709. with discount shipped.
www.sleepez.com/ 10” Queen ISleep EZ 1000 $1662.50 with discount shipped.
www.mattresses.net/ 8.5” Queen Adjustable Ultra Plush Latex Sleep System. $1277.75 with shipping and discount, great price. They also sell this with a 3” topper. I will call to get price.

The Eco-Sleep mattresses do not meet my criteria for adjustable but I thought I would mention them because of their low prices.
www.us-mattress.com/eco-rest-sundance-latex.html These are non-adjustable all Talalay latex mattresses. 9” Queen Sundance, 2” 19 ILD Talalay, 2” 24 ILD Talalay, 5” 36 ILD Talalay core $1149. shipped.
www.us-mattress.com/eco-rest-cassidy-latex.html 9” Queen Cassidy, 2” 19 ILD Talalay, 2” 24 ILD Talalay, 5” 33 ILD Talalay core $1149. shipped.
Their comfort guarantee: www.us-mattress.com/cusser.html
These are made with blended, not all natural Talalay latex. ecosleepmattress.com/latex.html
I could not find any info or reviews on the Eco-Sleep mattresses on this or the other forum. Does anyone on the forum own one?
Thanks Phoenix for doing the search for me without the hyphen. Ecosleep

Since I am replacing a full size mattress and frame with a queen size I am going to have to purchase either a KD wood or metal foundation. Thanks Phoenix for your foundations /base post. It’s a great place to start looking. www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/5913-the-best-foundations-or-base-for-a-latex-or-all-foam-mattress.html

My picks:
KD wood
www.mattresses.net/wood-foundations.html Queen $249. shipped, 2.75” wide spruce slats, 2.5” spacing between slats, 8” high. I would need either a queen metal frame or bed legs to raise it. www.sleepsolutionscenter.com/bedlegs.htm
www.us-mattress.com/universal-bedlegs-eco-black.html
Has anyone tried putting casters on a wood foundation? Like these: www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1414510&cp=2568443.2568451.2626210.2627538.2627556

KD metal
www.usboxspring.com/metal.htm $275. shipped, maybe able to get a 5% discount by mentioning the forum post 134 , 12.5” high with attached legs, 13 flexible birch slats + 6-1”x3” adjustable slats. With legs can be used as a standalone. Birch has a high compressive and bending strength. workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm

Steel grid
www.usa-beds.com/glideaway_space_saver_frame-25958.aspx Queen $169. shipped, possibly cheaper if they accept your offer, 14.5” high, 11 wires, 12 legs, head board adapters included. I agree that some type of fabric should be placed over the wires. Would a bed skirt work? Those skinny legs could be carpet killers.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZQCJVC?tag=theeway155-20 Queen $124.99 shipped, 14” high, 10 wires, and 12 legs. Complaints of it being squeaky. The headboard bracket set is an extra $29.99 shipped. www.amazon.com/Structures-HIGHRISE-Headboard-Footboard-Bracket/dp/B005CRVQY0/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

Forever Store More Foundation
www.foreverfoundations.com/ They also make a lower non-storage Forever Foundation but I could not find anyone online that carries it.
This is a steel foundation. A reviewer at Amazon states that the gap between the slats is 9.25”, and the width of the slats is 0.75”. I would not consider purchasing this for an all latex mattress but I thought I’d mention it to get some opinions on it. www.amazon.com/Forever-Store-More-Mattress-Foundation/product-reviews/B00B1W67RQ/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
www.wayfair.com/Forever-Foundations-Forever-Store-More-Mattress-Foundation-FSM-FEL1008.html Queen $349. shipped, 16” high standalone, headboard brackets included, no center support. Wayfair also sells this through Amazon and Walmart for the same price.
www.usbeds.com/forever_foundations_forever_store_more_mattress_foundation-31130.aspx Queen $349.99 shipped, possibly cheaper if they accept your offer. Chatted with Jenn. She told me that their product specialist said that this frame was approved for latex mattresses. I still would not use this for a latex mattress because of the large gaps between the slats.
More info on it here. Post #153

We were so impressed with the quality of the pure LatexBliss mattresses that I threw out my adjustable criteria for a latex mattress and ordered the PLB Nature set from Pete Cancelli for $2499. shipped, no tax. This includes the matching PLB queen 9” foundation. www.themattressexpert.com/pure-latexbliss.html I did an extensive Google search and this was the best price I could find on this mattress, and it also solves my what foundation to get problem. Now I just have to get a queen size steel frame for it.

I hope that some of the info in this post has been helpful to others. Phoenix this website must really be a labor of love. Keep up the good work.

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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: Link Update

After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 09 Jul 2013 00:29 #2

Hi BobP,

Wow ... Thanks for taking the time to write such a wonderful post with some great insights and helpful information :)

There isn't really too much I can add except a few comments to some of your points ...

After almost 10 years I’m doing research again on a new queen size mattress for our guest room. Jeff Scheuer on one of his Beducation videos recommended this website. www.matt-to-go.com/Beducation_Videos.htm


I have had many hours of great conversations with Jeff and he is definitely "mattress people" through and through.

This is what the other mattress forum should have evolved into. I was a member of that forum back in 2003-2004. Back then latex mattresses took a back seat to inner spring and memory foam mattresses, but that seems to be changing.


You're one of the "old timers" from WTB then and I certainly agree with your thoughts here. I was a very frequent poster at What's The Best Mattress (over 900 posts in my relatively short time there) until my account was "deactivated" for various "political" reasons and that was one of the catalysts that led to the launching of this site. One of the biggest challenges there was separating or differentiating some of the very knowledgeable members who posted informative and fact based information from some of the other posters that also wrote with "seemingly" good knowledge but who were only passing on information they had "heard" somewhere and had come to believe. This last group was often misinformed or held extreme positions and did as much to mislead (in spite of good intentions) as they did to help in many cases. New posters can have a very difficult time separating accurate information from all the conflicting opinions that may be more about someone's preferences than about accuracy.

I also believe that all materials have a place in the industry and that there are better and worse quality versions of all materials (even though I also have my own preferences of course). There are some very high quality versions of polyfoam that are very durable and perform very well for example and the same is true of all mattress materials. I'm a big fan of helping to understand the pros and cons of all materials or components and making meaningful comparisons and informed decisions rather than leaning towards the much more common "better and worse" or "black and white" comparisons that only include part of the story.

Maybe we got lucky, but the mattress will soon be 10 years old and it has held up very well, no indentations or sagging. We turn the mattress every 3 months. We have the matching Sealy foundation and a heavy duty steel, head to toe center beam, 1 center + 6 legs, frame.


I think it was easier to get lucky 10 years ago and the average build of mainstream mattresses was generally better than it is today as financial pressures and ongoing shareholder and investor demands for higher profit margins and greater ROI have led to a general trend towards downspecing mattresses in the mainstream industry. There have been many changes in the last 10 - 15 years in the industry.

Pete Cancelli (The Mattress Expert), who has an online blog, has suggested to those complaining about sagging Sealy Reflections that instead of replacing it, turn the mattress over and try sleeping on the Dunlop latex core side, and if this is too firm add a latex topper to it. He also has an online store where he sells the S brands and latex mattresses, EverEden? and pure LatexBliss. I have not checked if his prices are competitive. As of 2004 he also had a b&m store in Camden, NJ. Back in 2004 Pete was very helpful in getting me the specs for the Reflection mattresses. For the record, I am not affiliated with him or his business. www.themattressexpert.com/


He is certainly very knowledgeable about the mattresses he sells (within the limitations of major brands that don't fully disclose the specs of the materials they use) and I have watched his comments over the years and he has gradually shifted towards better quality "off brand" mattresses which is good to see. As you can imagine (see post #11 here ) I don't agree with his focus on mainstream mattresses or making "blind" purchases but having said that I know the kind of effort, time and dedication it takes to create the body of knowledge and posts he has written. There are not many people who know more about mainstream mattresses than he does in spite of the fact that much of the information that is needed to make meaningful assessments of their quality and value is not available. Turning over one of the Sealy latex mattresses (now the Stearns & Foster luxury latex line) would be helpful but it's not an ideal solution and depending on the thickness of the softer comfort layers that would be on the bottom of the mattress could compromise support to some degree and also because the bottom of the mattress has a stiffer and less responsive cover and isn't designed for sleeping on. It would certainly be well worth trying though and if it worked would be a much better option than starting all over again because the latex core would likely still be fine. I believe his prices are very competitive in the market he competes in.

I could not find any info or reviews on the Eco-Sleep mattresses on this or the other forum. Does anyone on the forum own one?


There are a fair number of comments about them on the forum and I believe several people who have purchased one. A forum search on ecosleep ... without the hyphen ... (you can just click on this) will bring them up.

I agree that some type of fabric should be placed over the wires. Would a bed skirt work?


A bedskirt would probably be a little on the thin side but I believe it would certainly be helpful and a step in the right direction to reduce the chance of the latex from sinking into the gaps over time yes. I think that anything that lowers the risk and that has other benefits as well both from an aesthetic point of view and from a practical point of view (reducing dust under the bed) would be helpful.

Forever Store More Foundation
www.foreverfoundations.com/ They also make a lower non-storage Forever Foundation but I could not find anyone online that carries it.
This is a steel foundation. A reviewer at Amazon states that the gap between the slats is 9.25”, and the width of the slats is 0.75”. I would not consider purchasing this for an all latex mattress but I thought I’d mention it to get some opinions on it. www.amazon.com/Forever-Store-More-Mattre...TF8&showViewpoints=1
www.wayfair.com/Forever-Foundations-Fore...ion-FSM-FEL1008.html Queen $349. shipped, 16” high standalone, headboard brackets included, no center support. Wayfair also sells this through Amazon and Walmart for the same price.
www.usbeds.com/forever_foundations_forev...oundation-31130.aspx Queen $349.99 shipped, possibly cheaper if they accept your offer and/or a 5% discount if you mention the forum. Chatted with Jenn. She told me that their product specialist said that this frame was approved for latex mattresses. I still would not use this for a latex mattress because of the large gaps between the slats.


While it would certainly be strong enough for a latex mattress ... I would also be hesitant to use it for a latex mattress with gaps that wide. I didn't realize that USBeds (Olejo) was giving a 5% discount for mentioning the forum here ... did they say this? (it would be great if they were).

We were so impressed with the quality of the pure LatexBliss mattresses that I threw out my adjustable criteria for a latex mattress and ordered the PLB Nature set from Pete Cancelli for $2499. shipped, no tax. This includes the matching PLB queen 9” foundation. www.themattressexpert.com/pure-latexbliss.html I did an extensive Google search and this was the best price I could find on this mattress, and it also solves my what foundation to get problem. Now I just have to get a queen size steel frame for it.


The PLB mattresses have MAP pricing (minimum advertised prices) but sometimes they can be negotiated if you are in the store. Regardless of this they are certainly good quality and reasonable value. The Nature is also one of my favorite or their designs ... not too soft and not too firm. Congratulations on your new mattress :)

I hope that some of the info in this post has been helpful to others. Phoenix this website must really be a labor of love. Keep up the good work.


I think your post was amazingly helpful and I really appreciate the time and effort that it took you to put it all together.

Thanks again ... and I'm glad you found us :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 09 Jul 2013 05:30 #3

Back in 2003 mattress salesmen and others on the WTBM forum were posting a lot of misinformation on pu and latex foams. Through my posts there, as you have done here, I tried to provide the forum members with accurate technical information. I was offered a moderator position there but declined due to my job work load.

A forum member posted that he had mentioned the forum when ordering from Us Beds and they gave him the 5% discount. I should have stated this in my first post. They also have a Make an Offer popin window in which you can make a one time offer on an item. When chatting with Jenn about the Forever Store More Foundation she immediately offered to take $25. off the price.

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Last edit: by BobP. Reason: grammar

After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 10 Jul 2013 02:48 #4

Hi BobP,

I know about the "make an offer" feature that USbeds (Olejo) has (which I think is a unique idea) but I must have missed the post about the 5% discount for forum members (and I couldn't find it on a forum search).

It's good to know though ... and thanks for the heads up :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 10 Jul 2013 04:20 #5

My 60+ year old eyes, and my wife says my brain, are not what they used to be. It was a forum member's post about getting a 5% discount from usboxsprings not usbeds when he mentioned he was referred by the forum. Post #134

Sorry about the misinformation. I will edit my first post.

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Last edit: by BobP.

After 10 years looking for a new mattress and foundation 10 Jul 2013 09:35 #6

Hi BobP,

That solves that mystery :)

Of course it never hurts to ask anyway!

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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