mattressunderground logo
×
Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial linked in the top right corner.
Select the Search Forum tab above to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab above to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Latex Topper Help

More
14 Nov 2013 21:15 #11 by Ken83
Replied by Ken83 on topic Latex Topper Help
HI BostonMatt, Phoenix,

I just ordered a Talalay latex mattress and topper from Siesta Sleep shop in Acton MA - a Pure Latex Bliss (PLB) "Pamper" with a 2" PLB topper (2" fast response = Talalay GL). I liked this firm mattress & soft topper better than the PLB Nature - I'm a side sleeper. I believe the topper has an ILD of 15. Siesta has the PLB Pamper, Nature, and Beautiful on display (king/queen), and has a twin size 2" PLB topper too. And their prices are great compared to the list prices on the PLB website.

Anyway, so, if you want to try out a 2" soft Talalay topper, they have one (call first in case they sell it off the floor). And, right near by, and also in Acton, is Spindle mattress. They are only open Mon-Thurs, but have different densities of dunlop latex there, in 3" thickness (you may want to call for more details, they are a small operation).

Also, Phoenix, this website rocks! Your posts have been great and helped me tremendously. I'll post more once I get the mattress/topper home and have a chance to sleep on it.

Thanks,

Ken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2013 21:56 #12 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex Topper Help
Hi Ken83,

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

Thanks for your comments and feedback as well!

I'm looking forward to your update when you receive it.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2013 05:53 #13 by Diane37
Replied by Diane37 on topic Latex Topper Help
Ken83,

Can you describe how your 2" talalay GL fast response feels? Is it soft enough for you and do you feel support as well? Did you also try the slow response? Any odors from this topper?

Thanks,
Diane

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2013 17:26 - 15 Nov 2013 18:38 #14 by Ken83
Replied by Ken83 on topic Latex Topper Help

Diane37 wrote: Ken83,

Can you describe how your 2" talalay GL fast response feels? Is it soft enough for you and do you feel support as well? Did you also try the slow response? Any odors from this topper?

Thanks,
Diane


Hi Diane,

I actually went into the store last night after several weeks of shopping for a mattress, intent on buying the PLB "Nature" - a medium firmness 10" Latex mattress (6" ILD 36, 2" ILD 28, 2" ILD 21). We've been to Sleepy's, Jordans, Gardner, Spindle, and Siesta, trying many of their mattresses. I found many good choices, but all with compromises, and had settled on the PLB Nature.

I saw they had a PLB topper, and decided to try that on the "Pamper", which is a firm mattress (6" of ILD 40 support with only 2" of ILD 21 as the comfort layer). Wow, I instantly loved that combo. The topper is soft & plush, springy like latex, and not like memory foam. The topper cover was a slightly loose fitting soft cover (cotton?) with a subtle small quilting. This cover had much more "give" than the tighter and firmer cover on the PLB mattress, and I think that contributed to a softer feel, much more like being right on top of the latex.

There's no doubt this combo was softer and more plush than the Nature, but it was firmer in ways too. For instance, by sitting on the edge of the beds, there was less overall sag in the Pamper+Topper than the Nature. Also, the overall combo had a "deader" feeling than the Nature by itself, so I think there would be less motion transfer between sleepers. I'm not sure if the deader feeling is due to the ILD 40 core, or the separate mattress & topper, but probably a combo of both. And again the combo felt softer and more comfortable than the even thicker PLB Beautiful (12" latex with 6" comfort layer), but also firmer, weird. Anyway, I hope my positive impressions remain after we get the combo in our house and sleep on it!

I asked the salesman (owner) at Siesta about the slow response, and he said he had one in the store earlier and didn't like it. I'm not sure about the other toppers that PLB sells, my focus last night was "order one in Cal King exactly like this!". I didn't detect any smell, but the topper looked a little worn so it was probably in the store for a while. It did have a blue cover, and a label "pure LatexBLISS active fusion climate control".

Now, I would have thought this would be too soft for me based on the ILD 15 spec, and a strange match with the Pamper (combo total with 4" of soft ILD15 & 21 then right into a super firm ILD 40), but it seemed to work great FOR ME.

Also, this topper by itself is very soft - you could easily fold whole thing in half. I'm mostly a side sleeper, wider at the shoulder and narrower in the waist. The topper allowed my shoulders to sink in further, but it still supported me at my waist. However, with the combo topper/Pamper, I did lose a little needed support at my hips when lying on my back (a small amount of the hammock effect over the "Nature" without the topper)

I hope this helps,

Ken
Last edit: 15 Nov 2013 18:38 by Ken83.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2013 20:09 - 23 Nov 2018 21:30 #15 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex Topper Help
Hi Ken83,

There's no doubt this combo was softer and more plush than the Nature, but it was firmer in ways too. For instance, by sitting on the edge of the beds, there was less overall sag in the Pamper+Topper than the Nature. Also, the overall combo had a "deader" feeling than the Nature by itself, so I think there would be less motion transfer between sleepers. I'm not sure if the deader feeling is due to the ILD 40 core, or the separate mattress & topper, but probably a combo of both. And again the combo felt softer and more comfortable than the even thicker PLB Beautiful (12" latex with 6" comfort layer), but also firmer, weird. Anyway, I hope my positive impressions remain after we get the combo in our house and sleep on it!

I asked the salesman (owner) at Siesta about the slow response, and he said he had one in the store earlier and didn't like it. I'm not sure about the other toppers that PLB sells, my focus last night was "order one in Cal King exactly like this!". I didn't detect any smell, but the topper looked a little worn so it was probably in the store for a while. It did have a blue cover, and a label "pure LatexBLISS active fusion climate control".

Now, I would have thought this would be too soft for me based on the ILD 15 spec, and a strange match with the Pamper (combo total with 4" of soft ILD15 & 21 then right into a super firm ILD 40), but it seemed to work great FOR ME.


This would be a good example of what I call a "differential" construction where there is a thicker comfort layer (or layers) and then a support layer that is much firmer. If the softer comfort layers are thick enough then they will isolate you from the firmness of the support core and give you the combination you are feeling with "very soft" on top but "firm stability" underneath. It'a kind of a contrast that many people like. Using a topper (which "acts" softer than the same layer inside a mattress) would accentuate this even more. This thread has a discussion about the same thing with some similar "difficult to describe" comments to yours about the difference between a mattress / topper combination and the same layers inside a mattress (although with a different mattress than yours).

Thanks for sharing some great insights and feedback ... and congratulations on your new mattress / sleeping system :)

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 23 Nov 2018 21:30 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Nov 2013 12:57 #16 by Diane37
Replied by Diane37 on topic Latex Topper Help
Thanks so much Ken83. Your response was very helpful. I am considering going with a 15 or 19ILD 2" topper for my mattress. We are fairly light so I think either may work. I think I want a blended talalay, although I'm not quite sure if I really trust the synthetic to not be harmful. You mentioned that you feel some support at your waist yet your shoulders did sink. This is what I am after, so the 15ILD may be he right one for us. I can't find any around here to try, so I'm just trying to make a really long, drawn out educated guess.
I have a nagging feeling though that good quality polyfoam could be even more comfortable than latex or layered with latex as a comfort layer, but I hate the off gassing/smells. Do you think that the blended talalay is less"springy" than the 100% talalay? This is my concern with buying latex as a comfort layer even in low ILD's... yes it's soft, but will it still have a hard, uncomfortable feel?

If you could, I would love to hear about your mattress and topper combo after you receive it. I truly value member's experiences and reviews here as sometimes this is how some of us can whittle down our choices.

Thanks,

Diane

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Nov 2013 19:56 #17 by Ken83
Replied by Ken83 on topic Latex Topper Help
Hi Diane,

I think it'll be ~10 days to get the mattress/topper, I can't wait, I hope it wasn't a dream how good that combo felt.

As far as polyfoam: I found this website after lying on a few Pranasleep mattresses at Jordan's furniture, doing a google search on Pranasleep, and ending up here (along with lots of reading). The Pranasleep mattresses I tried had 8" of latex and either 2 or 3" of quilted non-latex foam on top (polyfoam?). Those mattresses felt great, soft & firm at the same time, but they are very expensive and there were several reviews of that top quilted foam wearing out quickly and sagging. Most latex mattresses don't have that soft thick quilted type top cover, so you get right into the latex, which I would say is springy and lively, maybe to a fault as I like the firmness and support of latex, but they typically don't have that plush feel (without the topper).

Now, that 2" topper though was a cross between the feel of a latex mattresses and that of polyfoam on the Pranasleep or on any of the soft plush traditional mattresses (Sealy, Beautyrest, Stearns & Foster, etc), but it seemed to have only the good qualities of either. It was really soft like a plush traditional mattress, but had a welcome springiness. So much of the feel probably was due to the mattress under it too, but I'd say that topper was both more soft and supporting than the top foam layers of a traditional new mattress (eg Beautyrest). It was really transforming.

That last post by Phoenix (thanks again Phoenix!) points to another thread where they discuss a topper and how it's like a pillow top. Now, I never really realized what difference a pillow top made till I read that thread, but the topper being independent helps soften up the feel.

Also, I think another big factor is likely the fire barrier. Phoenix, can you confirm: I think mattresses are required to have a fire protection layer in the cover, which probably adds some hardness there as it thickens & stiffens the fabric over the mattress. Whereas the toppers don't appear to require this (probably by law). The net effect is that the cover on the topper was softer than what was on the mattress, and this definitely contributed to the softness I felt.

FWIW, I'm 6', 165 lbs, widest at the shoulders, then hips, but not super athletic build either. When I was on my side, this topper did support my waist, while allowing my shoulders to sink in. Again, the mattress played a big role here too. I'm still shocked at the difference between the Pamper/topper and the Nature, two setups both with 10" of total latex and 4" of that in comfort and 6" for support. I've been on many different composition latex mattresses (natural, synthetic, talalay, dunlop), and haven't felt that much of a difference even when the specs would have indicated a larger change. It's really weird. I just know it would be hard to do this without actually trying them out, so I understand the difficulty you would have in picking something out without being able to try it.

Also, initially I would have preferred all natural latex, just because it's all natural. But after reading about the differences, I'm not sure that all natural is better, it really might not be. I've heard there may be a slight vanilla smell with the talalay when new, I'm prepared for that but not a lot of people mention it or complain, so it's not a concern for me.

Ken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Nov 2013 20:25 #18 by Toro
Replied by Toro on topic Latex Topper Help

My plan at this point therefore (I've tried a few at stores, but there is so much variability as you say) is to buy a 2" "soft" talalay "all natural" topper from the mattress expert.com here (he says they run a true mid-teens ILD): themattressexpert.com/all-about-latex.html


BostonMatt:

Just wanted to make you aware that what you receive when you buy a "soft talalay all natural" topper from the source you mention is N2, which has an ILD range of 20-24, rather than mid-teen ILDs being quoted to you. At least that was my experience.

Hope you find the right combination that works for you.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Nov 2013 23:46 - 23 Nov 2018 21:33 #19 by Phoenix
Replied by Phoenix on topic Latex Topper Help
Hi toro,

Also, I think another big factor is likely the fire barrier. Phoenix, can you confirm: I think mattresses are required to have a fire protection layer in the cover, which probably adds some hardness there as it thickens & stiffens the fabric over the mattress. Whereas the toppers don't appear to require this (probably by law). The net effect is that the cover on the topper was softer than what was on the mattress, and this definitely contributed to the softness I felt.


I can confirm that a mattress is required to pass both 16 CFR 1632 and 1633 regulations and unless you have a prescription they are a requirement for all mattresses but not for toppers. There are many different ways and different materials used to pass the fire regulations though and some of them are "stiffer" and some are softer (various types of fiber, woven, and non woven materials) and each will have its own effect on the "feel" of the mattress so both the fire barrier and the cover itself (quilted vs unquilted) would all have some effect on the feel of a mattress (you can see some examples of different fire barriers here ). Some would add softness and some would add "stiffness" or firmness. Even the quilting pattern of a mattress cover can have an effect on the firmness of the mattress (smaller/tighter quilting patterns are firmer than quilting patterns that are larger or looser or covers that aren't quilted) but regardless of any other variables a topper on top of a mattress will act more independently and generally "feel" softer over a mattress than the same materials inside the same type of cover and fire barrier.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 23 Nov 2018 21:33 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Nov 2013 19:21 #20 by Ken83
Replied by Ken83 on topic Latex Topper Help
Thanks again Phoenix!

Ken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: NikkiTMU
Time to create page: 0.158 seconds

  • FREE Consumer Subscription & Purchase Discounts

    Offered to consumers who Create an Account to register on OUR FORUM to ask questions or share mattress related experiences. Additionally, TMU Consumer Subscribers receive discounts/bonuses from some of the best quality/value Mattress Manufacturers & Retailers in North America.

     

  • CONNECTING Consumers with Trusted Manufacturers & Retailers

    The Mattress Underground (TMU) website connects consumers with the most Trusted Manufacturers & Retailers throughout North America. All TMU Members have agreed to provide TMU consumer subscrilbers price discounts/bonus higher or equal to all other discounts offered on their own sites or throughout the Internet.

      • For eCommerce purchases, please check here for the unique discount code(s) offered by each TMU Trusted member.
      • When purchasing locally simply present the referral certificate provided by the TMU Trusted Member linked above or mention “The Mattress Underground” when visiting their store.

     

  • QUALITY Manufacturers & KNOWLEDGEABLE Retailers

    The Business membership of this site is by invitation and is only offered when we are satisfied that what you offer places you in the upper tier of mattress manufacturers & retailers across North America in terms of quality, knowledge & transparency, and service. If you believe that your company meets the quality/value criteria please complete and submit the PMAF form here to start the review process.

    Membership Requirements

  • Membership Disclosure

    The Mattress Underground offers free consumer subscription & paid membership for select mattress manufacturers or retailers. Member dues/fees are our source of income as The Mattress Underground is expensive to operate and employs people. For those manufacturers or retailers that have been invited to become members, and for any consumer that wishes to find their "best fit" mattress, we hope you choose to take advantage of what TMU offers as we believe the value of our services and information, our willingness and ability to work on behalf of and connect educated consumers with the better retailers and manufacturers across the US and Canada, are second to none on the internet. Mattress manufacturer and retailer memberships are available for companies that sell directly to consumers, but are by invitation only.

    In order to ensure full transparency with our readers, we’d like to disclose the following about our member relationships:

    • Consumers have free subscription but can voluntarily donate to help TMU operate.
    • Mattress retailers that qualify to be a Trusted Member pay monthly dues/fees.
    • Mattress manufacturers that qualify to be a Trusted Member pay monthly dues/fees
    More information about the benefits and services that TMU members receive can be found on the Our Services page of this website