>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC:

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 15 Dec 2013 22:09 #1

Hello. Too bad the names are so similar and easy to mix up! I am interested in getting an all latex queen sized bed in SF. After doing some searching mainly on this website I seem to like 2 beds the most - The Natural Mattress and The Natural Sense Organic Mattress. (Actually I think there are really 3 beds as you will see below.) Below I list the information for each bed in queen size. Though the products seem similar, the pricing is fairly different. I would appreciate any comments to help me choose between them or maybe not buy either one of them and go back shopping for another vendor. I am 6'4", 215 lbs middle aged man with a somewhat sensitive back and other minor aches and pains. I have slept on coils all my life and am used to sleeping on firm beds. However, now I wish to have an all latex bed, probably on the softer side. I am not sure yet whether I will get a soft-medium, medium, or medium-firm bed.

The Natural Mattress Store (SF store):
Enlightment: $3800 - 4 layers total of 12" latex
Levitation: $3200 - 4 layers total of 10" latex
Awareness: $2800 - 3 layers (3"x3"x3") of 9" latex
Serenity: $2200 - 3 layers (3"x3"x1") of 7" latex
Tranquility: $1800 - 6" core of Dunlop latex

The salespeople are knowledgeable and do not pressure you. Warranty is 12 yrs. Store has good reputation, but price seems a little high. You get 90 days to comfort exchange, including changing one of the layers (firmer or softer) subject only to a delivery charge. I liked shopping here. All prices are for queen size and there is no difference for soft vs firm.

The Natural Sense Mattress

I have not made it to the SF store yet. The mattress is sourced to several stores in CA and from foamorder.com. You can custom order your layers of latex and the firmer the layer, the higher is the cost. Strangely to me, the SF store website and foamorder.com have what appear to be very different prices. Warranty and comfort exchange seem similar to above store, and prices seem a little lower, though if you go very firm, the prices get closer to the above store.

Two Models: Eco (adds 1/2"-3/4" height to latex core, thinner ticking, etc) and Pillowtop (adds 1.5"-2" height to latex core, thicker ticking, etc.). All prices are for queen size and medium firm.

The Natural Sense Organic Store Website
Basic: $1560 (eco) - $1685 (pillow) - 6" latex (6" or 3"x3")
Classic: $1850 (eco) - $2045 (pillow) - 8" latex (6"x2")
Deluxe: $2010 (eco) - $2135 (pillow) - 9" latex (6"x3" or 3"x3"x3")
Royal: $2460 (eco) - $2585 (pillow) - 12" latex (3"x3"x3"x3")

Foamorder.com Website Prices for Natural Sense Mattress
6" latex for $940 - $1470 (soft-medium-firm-extra firm-hard)
9" latex for $1310 - $2110 (soft-medium-firm-extra firm-hard)

Foamorder.com says I can go to the Natural Sense Organic SF store for the Natural Sense mattress or buy it online from their website, but when looking at their website for Natural Sense mattresses, I cannot find "eco" and "pillow top" brand names and seem to find significantly cheaper prices. I am not sure what I am missing. Comparing the "store" website ECO model with the foamorder.com website for 9" of latex (3"x3"x3") and for soft-soft-soft to hard-hard-hard layers (of course I would get something in between these two extremes), I come up with the following prices:

"Store" website: $1820 to $2620
Foamorder.com website: $1310 to $2110

I am thinking to get one of the more expensive (but hopefully not the most expensive) models - I think 9 inches of latex will suit me fine. Here are the three 9" latex beds I like:

"The Natural Mattress" Awareness: - $2800 (no cost to modify firmness)
"Natural Sense" Deluxe: - $2010 (eco) -$2135 (pillow top) - a little less/more if I get it softer/firmer
foamorder.com Natural Sense: $1500-$1800 depending on how firm the bed (medium to medium firm)

Thanks for any comments!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 15 Dec 2013 23:55 #2

Hi ank,

The most important part of the "value" of a mattress is how well it matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP. Some of the options you are considering may work well for you and some may not depending on your body type and sleeping position and no matter what the cost or "value" of any mattress or the materials inside it, if it isn't a good match for your body type and sleeping style in terms of PPP then it would have little value to you.

Once you have narrowed down your options at each store to one based on your testing ... then the next step would be to find out the type and blend of the latex inside each one so you are comparing apples to apples. I believe that both of them use 100% natural Dunlop latex and if this was the case then they would be closely comparable in terms of the quality/durability of the latex but they may each have different covers and quilting which can make a significant difference both in terms of "feel" of the mattress and its cost. If the covers are also similar or the same then they would be closely comparable in terms of quality and value. I would also make sure that both are 100% natural Dunlop and you are not comparing organic Dunlop to 100% natural Dunlop (which are the same in terms of quality and performance but the organic certification adds to the cost of the material). You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here .

If two mattresses use the same type and blend of latex, are the same thickness, have a very similar cover, and are both suitable in terms of PPP ... then the price and any of the other options that are part of the purchase that have "value" to you and are included in the purchase price (such as trial periods, return and exchange policies, a foundation, set up, removal of your old mattress, free pillows or mattress protector etc) would be the main factors in the value of each purchase relative to the other one. These are all part of each person's personal value equation .

Foamorder.com says I can go to the Natural Sense Organic SF store for the Natural Sense mattress or buy it online from their website, but when looking at their website for Natural Sense mattresses, I cannot find "eco" and "pillow top" brand names and seem to find significantly cheaper prices. I am not sure what I am missing. Comparing the "store" website ECO model with the foamorder.com website for 9" of latex (3"x3"x3") and for soft-soft-soft to hard-hard-hard layers (of course I would get something in between these two extremes), I come up with the following prices:

"Store" website: $1820 to $2620
Foamorder.com website: $1310 to $2110


I'm not sure what you may be missing either (and it may just be that website purchases are a lower cost for the same mattress) but I do find their websites somewhat difficult to follow. I would call and talk to them to confirm the specifics of the layers in each specific mattress you are considering and have them explain any differences between them that account for any differences in the prices so you are clear on the materials and components in each one.

Once you know the specifics of all the materials in each of your "finalists" (at both stores) and you have tested them for PPP ... then you will be in a much better position to make meaningful comparisons between them.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Phoenix.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 16 Dec 2013 02:24 #3

Thanks very much for your fast reply Phoenix.

I know I need to do more work to make an informed decision, but am not one to go crazy researching every detail. Definitely will test for PPP. (I am a predominantly a (left and right) side sleeper, but also sleep on my back and my stomach for short periods. (Go figure.)

Please excuse me for what I am going to say right now, but I think it needs to be said because I am afraid many of us neophyte mattress buyers are in a similar position. It is not easy to find all the information you suggest I gather. And, I suspect you never actually compare exact 'apples' to 'apples', but presume you can come close enough to make a good call. For me, this is harder to do than buying a new car. For a car purchase, I will have a price range and desired characteristics, research online the reviews and prices of cars I like, then narrow it down to 2-3 cars in the same class from different manufacturers (GM, Ford, BMW, etc.), visit the showroom of that narrowed list, then choose the one I like the best. I do not research the engine, suspension, brakes, body components, etc. to the 9th degree (i.e., to see if the GM transmission is better than the FORD transmission, etc.,) and adjust the score of which one to buy.

Again, sorry to complain about the work I need to do. Mattress manufacturers do not make it easy to compare (see the Natural Sense prices from the "store" vs foamorder.com). However, it is on me to learn if I want to make an informed decision.

Thanks again for your help and this very useful blog.

ank :ohmy:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 16 Dec 2013 11:23 #4

Hi ank,

Please excuse me for what I am going to say right now, but I think it needs to be said because I am afraid many of us neophyte mattress buyers are in a similar position. It is not easy to find all the information you suggest I gather. And, I suspect you never actually compare exact 'apples' to 'apples', but presume you can come close enough to make a good call


Unfortunately you are correct and many if not most of the largest manufacturers make it impossible to find in some cases which along with the fact that they use lower quality materials is the reason I would suggest avoiding them. Even if a manufacturer is transparent then most of the salespeople at the larger retailers have very little knowledge about mattresses and still make it difficult to find out the information you need. In effect they are selling a product where they don't know anything about the quality of the product they are selling. The major manufacturers also prevent consumers from making any kind of meaningful comparisons by selling the same mattress using many different names for the same mattress sold at different stores so you can't easily do any comparison shopping.

Once you know the materials in a mattress it's much easier to identify any weak links in the mattress and to make more meaningful comparisons even if they aren't exact.

For a car purchase, I will have a price range and desired characteristics, research online the reviews and prices of cars I like, then narrow it down to 2-3 cars in the same class from different manufacturers (GM, Ford, BMW, etc.), visit the showroom of that narrowed list, then choose the one I like the best. I do not research the engine, suspension, brakes, body components, etc. to the 9th degree (i.e., to see if the GM transmission is better than the FORD transmission, etc.,) and adjust the score of which one to buy.


I agree with you here as well and too much information or analysis down to the finest detail can lead to "paralysis by analysis" and information overwhelm. As you suggested, I would stick with the basics and the essential information and keep it as simple as possible because too much information can lead to just as many poor choices as too little information.

In the case of the two manufacturers you are looking at ... it will be much easier because both of them will give you the information you need about what is in the mattresses you are looking at and it's very likely that it's 100% natural Dunlop in both cases which means that the quality/durability of the material would be the same and meaningful comparisons will be much easier.

Again, sorry to complain about the work I need to do. Mattress manufacturers do not make it easy to compare (see the Natural Sense prices from the "store" vs foamorder.com). However, it is on me to learn if I want to make an informed decision.


You may be thinking there is more to do than there is. The only two things that you really need to do is test each mattress you are considering for PPP so you can choose the most suitable mattress at each store (which will be the most time consuming part) and then ask them what type of latex is in the mattress so you can make meaningful comparisons between the two of them and decide which one is the best match for your personal value equation.

If you have questions along the way you're always welcome to post them on the forum.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Phoenix.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 22 Dec 2013 03:37 #5

Hello Phoenix,

I visited the foamorder SF Natural Mattress store two days ago and purchased my first all natural Dunlop latex bed. It was difficult to construct the bed that would suit me best (i.e, thickness, firmness, etc). They offered numerous constructions in numerous sizes. It appears the most popular sizes were 6", 9", 10" and 12" of latex. I chose 9" latex in 3 layers (3"x3"x3"). I spent over 2 hours laying down on various beds with different ILD numbers. There are five different ILD numbers sold: 25, 28, 31, 36 and 45 (soft to hard). I was looking for a softer top and firmer bottom, sinceI thought that such a progression would be good and provide a soft feeling at first, then as you sink in more, the bed would get firmer. However, the salesman explained that while that theory might work for some people, everyone is different, and he said some sales in the store have had firmer top layers and softer bottom layers. But my theory must have some credence as all the store test bed samples seemed to follow it. I liked best a couple of beds that had the following ILD numbers for 3 layers: 25/31/31 and 28/28/31. However, I was not sure which bed was better for me or whether I needed to construct my own combination. In addition to trying the store test beds, I was able to put 3 loose separate layers, one on top of another, on the floor and create any combination, but found that testing 3 loose layers on the floor felt very different than testing a 3-layered combination sealed in a finished test bed.

Trying to get the best PPP seemed hard to decide. After laying on about 8 different combinations for 5-15 mins each, I narrowed it down to the softer ones listed above, and laid on top of them again. I thought that my preferences were only subjective, as all the beds seemed to provide good PPP, so I could not distinguish them objectively. Finally, I decided to construct my own combination, based partly on the fact that I could save a couple of hundred dollars by buying a couple of clearance layers. The ILD numbers I chose for the layers from top to bottom in my mattress are: 25/28/36. I get 90 days to test it at home. I figure if it seems too soft, I can swap the top two layers (28/25/36) or the bottom two layers (25/36/28). I cannot imagine it would feel too hard. If swapping layers do not help me, I have 90 days to order a replacement layer with a different ILD number for a delivery charge (and some more money if I return one of the clearance layers).

I really appreciate all your advice and the advice of others on this blog. Below, I list the prices for the bed along with details on the materials. The total was $1,917 + $168 tax = $2,085. Hopefully, you will think that I made a decent and informed decision?

ank

Item: Clearance item, Queen size 9" x 60" x 80" Deluxe Organic Pillow Top case. Full retail value of $802.05 Returned in new condition after just 1 week. Perfect for any latex mattress and latex foam toppers.
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $521.33
Extended: $521.33

Item: Clearance item, Queen Medium (N28) approx 2.8 x 60 x 80 Natural Sense 100% natural latex mattress pad foam topper. Full retail is $411.90 Returned in exceptionally "like new" condition under our Comfort Exchange Policy. Biodegradation is not warranted and only proper cases will slow biodegradation. Natural Sense toppers may have natural flaws that include discoloration, small tears, air pockets and surface texture.
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $350.11
Extended: $350.11

Item: Clearance item, Queen Extra-Firm (N36-47.2 lbs.) approx 2.8 x 60 x 80 Natural Sense 100% natural latex mattress pad foam topper. Full retail is $490.44. Returned in new condition under our Comfort Exchange Policy. Biodegradation is not warranted and only proper cases will slow biodegradation. Natural Sense toppers may have natural flaws that include discoloration, small tears, air pockets and surface texture.
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $416.79
Extended: $416.79

Item: Solid Natural Sense 100% Natural mattress pad foam topper, Queen size soft (N25) approximately (60x80), 2.8" thick, Soft density
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $372.90
Extended: $372.90

Item: Cotton cover, Queen size (60x80), 9" thick
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $69.88
Extended: $69.88

Item: Organic Wool Puddle Pad, Queen size (60x81), 1/4" thick (500 g), with elastic straps on all four corners, 9" thick mattress
Quantity: 1
Price Ea.: $186.80
Extended: $186.80

Subtotal: $1917.81
tax: $167.81

TOTAL $2,085.62

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 22 Dec 2013 13:08 #6

Hi ank,

However, the salesman explained that while that theory might work for some people, everyone is different, and he said some sales in the store have had firmer top layers and softer bottom layers.


They are right that everyone is different but a design that goes from softer to firmer as you go deeper is certainly the most common approach. This also gives you the option of re-arranging layers if you need to fine tune the mattress (for example if you have S/M/F and it's not quite supportive enough you can change the layering to S/F/M to firm up the support layers).

In addition to trying the store test beds, I was able to put 3 loose separate layers, one on top of another, on the floor and create any combination, but found that testing 3 loose layers on the floor felt very different than testing a 3-layered combination sealed in a finished test bed.


Your experience here is the norm as well. I think it can be quite surprising for many people how much of a difference a cover can make in the overall feel and performance of a mattress. The type of cover, whether it is quilted or unquilted, along with the tightness of the cover and how much it compresses the layers inside it can all make a significant difference.

Hopefully, you will think that I made a decent and informed decision?


It sounds like you did some good testing and you certainly chose high quality materials and components so from a quality/durability and value perspective you did well.

All that's really left now in the process is to confirm that your choice of layering is good "match" for you in your real life sleeping experience in terms of PPP or whether you need to do any fine tuning to reach your ideal layering.

I'm looking forward to your feedback once you've had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Appreciate advice b/w 2 all latex beds in SF - The Natural Mattress vs The Natural Sense Organic 22 Dec 2013 19:40 #7

Will do Phoenix. Thanks again for all your assistance! :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: NikkiTMU
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf