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KD foundations, frame, bed advice and ideas.

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05 Jan 2014 12:33 #1 by JackBauer
I posted something here that is related, however I think others may benefit from the discussion I'd like to have.

First I believe KD (knock down) foundations may have their place - but now for heavier mattresses like my 13" thick latex - UNLESS you have a bed / frame that provides support in the right locations.

My current bed has metal rails, and a bar that goes across in the middle, essentially cutting the head and foot (length-wise) in half) It has a fifth "foot" in the center of that bar. It was perfectly fine for my older 9" non-latex mattress.

When purchasing from the AMAZING people at SlpeepEZ, I bought their Knock Down foundation, which to be honest I am underwhelmed by when it is applied to such a heavy mattress. This is the construction:

So with the one wooden support running down the center only getting support at the single cross bar point in the very middle of the mattress, there seems to be a LOT of deflecting going on. So I need to do something. The options I have:

1) Replace the whole bed with something with a much better foundation - like a platform bed. Just get rid of that KD foundation that I'm not very fond of. The only problem here - aside from cost, is that I have a small bedroom and need to have my bed up against one wall. Moving a platform bed to be able to access that side of the mattress to change sheets, would not be easy.

2) Purchase a bed frame like the Kickerbooker KB 2007 . Unfortunately though I then have to bolt my headboard to it and lose my footboard (which has pros and cons to it) The "Monster" is one of the few frames that has a support running down the middle of the bed (along the long length of the bed). Unfortunately though all these "one-size-fits-all" bed frames do NOT extend the entire length of a queen bed, and the frame at the bottom and top of the bed will NOT be running along the width of the KD foundation.

3) Drill holes in my existing rails, and install the Knickerbocker Bed Beam system . This would add three more cross bars, and I MAY be able to position two of them so that they are under the wooden KD frame at head and foot of the bed. I would have to drill holes though to mount it, and it does not provide continuous support under that center "beam" within my KD foundation, just provides three more support points. Although that may be irrelevant as the center "beam" is not solid as the first picture shows. It is going to compress and flex no matter what.

If my bedroom was just 1-2 feet wider I'd just spend the extra money and get a pretty solid platform bed. At this point I really don't know what is going to solve the problem other than that, because I do feel that these KD foundations MAY not be adequate to properly support such a heavy mattress.

So I figured I would share the quagmire I am in, and see if anyone has wisdom they would care to share.

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05 Jan 2014 16:04 - 05 Jan 2014 16:06 #2 by Phoenix
Hi JackBauer,

First I believe KD (knock down) foundations may have their place - but now for heavier mattresses like my 13" thick latex - UNLESS you have a bed / frame that provides support in the right locations.

So with the one wooden support running down the center only getting support at the single cross bar point in the very middle of the mattress, there seems to be a LOT of deflecting going on. So I need to do something.


I would certainly agree with the need for a suitable bedframe because anything in between the mattress and the floor and the load distribution of the system can contribute to sagging. The KD foundation itself though wouldn't likely be the issue and it's stronger than most of the foundations that are sold with other latex mattresses that in some cases are even thicker and heavier. They are made specifically to SleepEz's specifications to make sure that the gaps in between the slats are less than 3" (which is less than most competing foundations). Of course there are even stronger foundations yet that use stronger wood or constructions or smaller gaps that would be stronger yet but in most cases they wouldn't be necessary.

Depending on your weight ... I would doubt that the foundation itself is the issue or that it is contributing to a "lot" of sagging. It would be interesting to calculate the deflection of the foundation itself using the software mentioned in this thread but of course that would require more specialized knowledge and software and as you mentioned it would also depend on what was underneath it. You could also test the foundation directly on the floor to see how much of a difference it makes which would give you a better sense of how much of the deflection is the result of your bedframe or how it supports the foundation.

I would also tend to use heavy duty steel bedframes that have at least two center legs to the floor with heavier mattresses or with higher body weights. The Knickerbocker Monster is a good example of one of these but there are also some other examples mentioned in post #10 here that also have a center support that runs the length of the frame.

2) Purchase a bed frame like the Kickerbooker KB 2007. Unfortunately though I then have to bolt my headboard to it and lose my footboard (which has pros and cons to it) The "Monster" is one of the few frames that has a support running down the middle of the bed (along the long length of the bed). Unfortunately though all these "one-size-fits-all" bed frames do NOT extend the entire length of a queen bed, and the frame at the bottom and top of the bed will NOT be running along the width of the KD foundation.


Most bedframes are intentionally made shorter than the foundation for safety reasons. Some of the bedframes (with a center support that runs the length of the bed) mentioned in the last link are longer though and can be used with a footboard (one example made by Leggett & Platt is here ). Perhaps one of these will give you the best of all options (a strong frame with good center support and the ability to attach a footboard).

Phoenix

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Last edit: 05 Jan 2014 16:06 by Phoenix.

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06 Jan 2014 16:33 #3 by JackBauer

Phoenix wrote: Hi JackBauer,

Most bedframes are intentionally made shorter than the foundation for safety reasons. Some of the bedframes (with a center support that runs the length of the bed) mentioned in the last link are longer though and can be used with a footboard (one example made by Leggett & Platt is here ). Perhaps one of these will give you the best of all options (a strong frame with good center support and the ability to attach a footboard).

Phoenix


Hi Phoenix.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I guess you raise a good point that if I want more support under the KD foundation, then I need a frame that has support for a footboard. I'm really ok with losing the footboard in the end...

But it is unfortunate because the frame I'd like (The Monster, with 2" angle iron, 71" long)... Well with 4-5" of overhang, considering the construction of the KD foundation "side rails" that are NOT solid, well I just wonder how well supported the bed will be, at least at the edge of the bed.

Anyway - I tried emailing Shawn at SleepEZ to see if they have any frame advice, but the email bounced. I'll try again tomorrow.

I also will probably go visit another furniture store to look at platform beds - just the problem there is even if I find something that I could put on furniture moving "coasters", it would have to be well enough built so IT also does not sag under the weight of the mattress. (And that of course shoots the price up pretty high)

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06 Jan 2014 20:46 - 06 Jan 2014 20:48 #4 by Phoenix
Hi JackBauer,

The SleepEz foundation will support 1500 lbs so you should be fine with it as long as you have a HD frame with good support to the floor in the center.

I guess you raise a good point that if I want more support under the KD foundation, then I need a frame that has support for a footboard. I'm really ok with losing the footboard in the end...


The footboard wouldn't make that much difference as far as the load bearing capacity goes (when you are lying down most of your weight would be supported by the frame not by the footboard) although it could keep you from sitting on the end of the bed and "tipping" the foundation and mattress.

I just realized that the frame I linked in the last reply has 3 cross rails not a center rail but it does have 3 legs in the center which should be fine to support the weight under the foundation center beam evenly. SleepEz would also be very familiar with different frames under their foundation. I'm not sure why their email bounced but perhaps you could ask them if it's still correct.

There are some HD bedframes with a centerbeam that can be used with a footboard attachment here and here .

Phoenix

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Last edit: 06 Jan 2014 20:48 by Phoenix.

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30 Aug 2019 14:43 #5 by mendelnewton
Hi JAckBauer,
I am experiencing similar issues. What kind of a bed frame solution did you end up going with?

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08 Sep 2019 06:36 #6 by Sensei
Hey mendelnewton,

I just wanted to also acknowledge that many times people from 1,2 or more years removed from posting may not post back as they have many times "solved" their issues, etc.

Thanks again for posting to TMU forum.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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