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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 22 Jan 2014 08:25 #1

Hello Phoenix and M.U. Family,
I am looking for a firm innerspring mattress. I'm a side sleeper with a bad back so i need very firm support, but with enough of a comfort layer to ease pain on the shoulder. I cant stand hammocking, but with a firm mattress i expect less over time of this problem compared to one with a big comfort topping layer.

I have tried a bunch of beds and i really like the:

Beautyrest Legend Firm (Sleepys) - my favorite!
Beautyrest Black Firm (Mattress Warehouse)
Sherwood Lumina Pegasus Firm (Urban Mattress)

I know that Simmons is not that highly respected...but i really like the Legend Firm mattress - it has a unique bouncy yet solid feel and i like the topper.. And Sleepys will let me replace it within a year for $130 extra insurance. This seems like a nice benefit. I did notice that this matress was right in front of the store and is expensive. Maybe they are trying to sell it because no one is buying them?

QUESTIONS:
what are your opinions of the Beautyrest Legend Firm?
Are there any other mattresses you'd suggest in stead?
IN the end its all about comfort...i may hold my nose and buy this matress since it feels the best to me.
is this a bad idea?
thanks so much
jonah

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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 22 Jan 2014 10:21 #2

Hi jacksonjm,

The first place I would start your research is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices ... and know how to avoid the worst ones.

Outside of testing a mattress for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) ... a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality and durability of the materials inside it. Without knowing the specifics of what is inside your mattress ... there is no way for you to identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses. No matter what a mattress feels like in a showroom ... there is little value in buying a mattress that uses lower quality materials that soften or breaks down too quickly and you can't "feel" the quality of the materials inside. Lower quality materials can feel just as good as higher quality materials ... for a little while. I would never buy a mattress where I didn't know the quality of the materials inside it ... especially in the comfort layers which are generally the first to break down ... the risk is just too high. This would be particularly true with major brands.

I would also make sure that you have done some careful and objective testing on a mattress because basing your choices on subjective comfort or the "showroom feel" of a mattress can have lower odds of making a suitable choice than random chance alone (see this study )

what are your opinions of the Beautyrest Legend Firm?


It's really not possible to have an opinion of a mattress that you don't know what's inside it but the odds are very high that like most of the Simmons mattresses there are some low quality/density materials in the comfort layers that will likely soften or break down much too quickly. As you can see in the guidelines here ... I would avoid it.

I'm happy to share my thoughts about any mattress but the retailer or manufacturer would need to provide you with the type and thickness of all the materials and components from the top down (so that they add up to the thickness of the mattress), the density of any polyfoam or memory foam, and the type or blend of any latex in the mattress. Once you have this (and of course you're welcome to post it on the forum if you'd like my comments) it's possible to identify any weak links in the mattress and make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.

Are there any other mattresses you'd suggest in stead?


There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to suggest "what" mattress to choose for someone else but I'm happy to help with "how" to choose. Following the steps in the tutorial post has the highest odds of making the most suitable choice that is the best match for your personal value equation .

IN the end its all about comfort...i may hold my nose and buy this matress since it feels the best to me.
is this a bad idea?


A mattress is about PPP which is more than just comfort (which is more subjective). Durability is also an important part of the value of a mattress purchase. A mattress that will last you for 20 years that isn't a good match for you in terms of PPP and that doesn't provide you with quality sleep would have little value but on the other hand a mattress that is "amazing" and provides you with the best sleep of your life but uses low quality materials and softens or breaks down so you lose the comfort and support that was the reason you bought it in a year or two would also have little value. I think it would be a bad idea yes.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 28 Jan 2014 13:50 #3

Hi Phoenix,
thank you for your thoughtful response. I got some more information (as much as they would give) for the 2 beds i am interested in. Can you give me your thoughts on which looks better from a materials quality standpoint? Hopefully the forum can also get some use from this research. Lastly, I understand the focus on quality materials but does the 1.5" body impression warranty make you feel any better about getting a bed from Simmons? That seems pretty decent. As i said i like the feel of the bed a lot and have done extensive thoughtful testing on multiple says in the showroom. I dont want to focus too much on materials and discount the way it feels either.
Thanks!
jonah

Here is the info on those 2 beds that i like as a side sleeper who prefers a firm mattress.
I'm most interested in if the quality of the Simmons bed seem good enough as i liked this feel better.
I also attached spec sheets i got for both beds


Simmons Beautyrest Black Abriana Extra Firm:
quilt - top of mattress
1" gel touch (high grade foam blended with gel, CertiPUR)
1/2" luxury firm comfort foam (medium firm density, CertiPUR)

comfort - padding layers
1/2" air cool memory foam (open cell, CertiPUR))
1 1/2" energy foam

correct back support system
veriform advanced pocketed coil (900 coils, 24 per sq foot., 13.5 gage, Each coil made of 3 wires stranded together)
1/2" energy foam
3" ventilated foam encased edge support

manufacturers warranty
25 years
1 1/2" body indentations

Sherwood Lumina Pegasus Firm
heavyweight circular knit panel ticking
natural fire barrier
super soft quilt foam (soy based)
firm quilt foam (soy based)
HD firm support foam (soy based)
insulator pad
gel infused memory foam
natural latex
coil - 683 pocketed, electronically tempered

Sherwood Bedding uses a Higher Density grade of Soy Based Polyurethane foam & a much more sophisticated methodology of placement of those materials, all in an effort to enhance the “Modulus” ( Support factor ) when compared to other products at similar of Higher price points.

100% Chemical free *Natural Fire Barrier
Soy Based Poly foams
Specialty Quilt products produced to reduce and eliminate Body impressions
Heavy Weight ( Thicker ) Mattress ticking to enhance durability and Comfort
Tru ~ Lock foundation construction ( Higher grade of SPF / 3 Center rail and 2 x 6 Construction)
Electronically tempered Pocketed springs for added durability & resilience
Adjustable friendly & Thicker Foam Encasement for added edge support

polyfoam tested by CertiPUR-US
Attachments:

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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 28 Jan 2014 14:59 #4

Hi jacksonjm,

Lastly, I understand the focus on quality materials but does the 1.5" body impression warranty make you feel any better about getting a bed from Simmons? That seems pretty decent.


In a word no. I wouldn't buy any mattress where I wasn't able to assess the likelihood that I would have to replace it in a very few years because of thicker layers of lower quality materials in the mattress. The warranty has little or nothing to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress (see post #174 here )

Can you give me your thoughts on which looks better from a materials quality standpoint?


Unfortunately neither of the attachments or information you listed says anything about the quality of the materials in either mattress so there is no way to make any meaningful comments about either of them. Post #3 here may be of interest to give you a sense of the quality of the materials that Simmons uses and why I would normally avoid them both for quality and value reasons.

What you would need is the type and thickness of all the layers and components listed in order from the top down (or bottom up) to make sure they add up to the thickness of the mattress and that there are no layers "missing", the density of any polyfoam or memory foam in the mattress (density is the most important part of durability), and the type and blend of any latex layers in the mattress. While the innerspring is less important in terms of durability and normally isn't the "weak link" in a mattress ... I would also want to know the type of innerspring (pocket coil, bonnell coil, offset coil, continuous coil), the gauge of the coils, and the number of coils so you can make better "value" comparisons even though they will have much less to do with the durability of the mattress.

Any "good" retailer or manufacturer will understand the importance of providing you with the information you need to make an informed choice and be willing and able to provide it to you (although the majority of retailers in the mainstream industry are unfortunately not very knowledgeable or informed about the mattresses they sell and most of the forum members here that have spent more than an hour on the forum would likely know more about mattress quality than the salespeople that sell them).

If I was "forced" to make a blind purchase (and I personally wouldn't consider this) and choose between the two based on it's quality or value (without regard to which one is a better match for you in terms of PPP) I would choose the Sherwood but not because I know it's quality or value (because without the information you need there is no way to know this for certain) but because the odds are much higher that the quality of the materials and the "value" of the mattress is better in any comparable budget range and like any "gamble" you would be "playing the odds" without knowing what may happen for certain.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 07:01 #5

thanks for the additional thoughts. Both companies told me they couldnt give out proprietary information and that was all that they would give me! it was a pain even collecting this much.

Do you have any recommendations for good local mattress places in the washington DC/metro area then?

jonah

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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 08:23 #6

You may want to start here .

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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 11:51 #7

Hi jacksonjm,

If you were looking at the Sherwood Lumina Pegasus Firm at Urban Mattress then they should be able to find out the specs you need (I know that other Urban Mattress stores can provide them).

In many cases a wholesale manufacturer like Sherwood will only provide them to their retailers and not directly to consumers so I'm not sure if you talked or emailed Sherwood directly or asked the retailer that was selling it.

The link jankdc provided has the better options and possibilities I'm aware of in the Washington DC area (thanks jankdc :))

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 14:46 #8

ok will do. Hey what is your general opinion of the royal pedic company? i have a 7-layer all latex mattress from them now.
www.royal-pedic.com/RLAT.asp

its not bad but the thing is so damn heavy and has started to sag a little after about 5 years. I havent been sleeping on it all that well. i dont have trouble falling asleep but i wake up a lot. i thought that an innerspring mattress might help me...i just love that bouncy airy feel. and pshycologically i feel that my massive royalpedic is weighing me down. For what i paid i cant believe i am shopping again...but sleep is so important.

lastly, if i do decide to sell the mattress, is Craigs List or siomething like that my best option? NOt sure about the market for a 5-year old luxury matress...

thanks for all you have told me
jonah

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Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 14:49 #9

i am also thinking about getting the Royal-Pedic all-cotton mattress instead of the latex one i have now. i know it offers very firm orthopedic support.

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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: edit for search terms

Beautyrest Legend Firm - I know its Simmons but it feels so good to me - thoughts?? 29 Jan 2014 18:09 #10

Hi jacksonjm,

ok will do. Hey what is your general opinion of the royal pedic company? i have a 7-layer all latex mattress from them now.
www.royal-pedic.com/RLAT.asp


They are well constructed and use high quality materials (latex, good quality innersprings, and natural fibers) but they are in a more premium price range than other mattresses that that use similar materials and designs that may also be available so if I was considering a Royal-Pedic purchase I would make some very careful value comparisons with other mattresses based on each person's personal value equation to make sure that the higher price was justified in terms of PPP or any other criteria that were important to each person compared to mattresses that use the same or similar quality materials in lower price ranges.

Since your mattress is such high quality ... if the issue is that it's too firm (and that's not clear from your post) it may be worth considering adding a topper as long as you are OK with how much it weighs which is just part of the properties of latex. Higher quality materials are usually heavier with any type of foam or innerspring.

i am also thinking about getting the Royal Pedic all-cotton mattress instead of the latex one i have now. i know it offers very firm orthopedic support.


These are also good quality materials but I would make sure that you are comfortable with the price range and that you have done some careful testing for PPP because they may be too firm for many people and a mattress that is too firm can lead to alignment issues just as much as a mattress that is too soft (see this diagram ) and of course a mattress that is too firm to provide good pressure relief can also be very uncomfortable regardless of whether it provides the "correct" support to provide good alignment.

Firmer is not necessarily better (and can often be worse) if a firmer mattress doesn't "allow" the lighter areas of the body to sink in enough at the same time as it "stops" the heavier parts of your body from sinking in too far so that your spine and joints are in good alignment.

lastly, if i do decide to sell the mattress, is Craigs List or siomething like that my best option? NOt sure about the market for a 5-year old luxury matress...


Craigs List or better yet someone you know may be the best way to sell a used mattress but with a premium latex mattress you will likely only recover a small percentage of your original purchase price.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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