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Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 23 Jan 2014 19:20 #1

First off, this site/forum is tremendous, what a resource!

Second, quick specs on me:
Physical: 5'9", 170lbs (wife 5'6" 120lbs). Both side/back sleepers (sometimes on my stomach...shhh don't tell, horrible I know...)
Budget: Up to $4k is fine w/ me
Current bed: 14 yr old 1-800-mattress kind with big lump in middle given depressions on each side. I don't think I have a clue as to what I may be missing out on....but my wife is DONE with it! Nuf said.

I have spent MANY hours combing through the tutorials, posts, and main site pages. From just the readings alone, I was determined to get a well-made coil mattress, surgically remove the top, and replace with my own latex over the springs. On the way back from a vacation, I made a brief detour to Gardner mattress as I read on this forum that they had well-built offset coil mattresses (which I thought I wanted because of the firm support).

I tried out several and they definitely felt solid. I got a few price quotes for a queen w/ a talalay topper, just under $2k, seemed reasonable.

However before I took the plunge I wanted to check out a few stores in NYC. I tried 3 per one of Phoenix's posts of NYC retailers. Room & Board, Essentia (found on my own), and the Clean Bedroom. Unfortunately there are none near where I live so I am/was limited to those near where I work.

1. Essentia:
-Tried them all. Classic 8 felt best. I never liked Tempurpedic because I don't like sinking into my mattress. Right now I'm typing on my laptop on my bed and the last thing I want is to feel like I'm sitting on quicksand where every move takes effort. However the Classic 8 felt like the right mix. Nice firm dunlop core and the slight slow response on the top to cradle my body, but not to the extent where I felt like I was knee deep in muck. I was impressed and also surprised at how a non-innerspring mattress could feel so supportive & good...I started having doubts about my inner(spring) desires.

2. Clean Bedroom:
-Tried all of them (NYC location). OMI, Savvyrest, Oyasumi II (aka Sleeptek I believe Euro 2), and I think Greensleep but I can't recall. Need to go back one more time...so many!...

-Savvyrest: Was all Dunlop, firm, then medium, then soft. It was ok, but felt a bit firm and didn't feel like anything "special" (too bad they didn't have Talalay at all - they had a topper which I tried on it but the sales rep said it's not really the same thing as if I tried Dunlop firm/medium and then Talalay top layer. Although he said he's tried that and doesn't think it would feel ALL that different than the Dunlop soft on top).

-OMI - at least the configurations they had in the store, none passed my personal preference test here as well. Nothing stood out or felt like something I wanted to try over & over.

-Oyasumi II - was almost like love at first lie. It was firm, then medium, then soft, the 8" version (I believe 2, 4, 2 - all Dunlop - Sleeptek.ca Euro 2 has the specs). It had that nice comfortable cushioning feel on the top and then felt plenty supportive for me underneath. Rep showed how each layer is individually wrapped so can always replace down the road and also how it won't rip/tear over time like some unwrapped latex layers can sometimes do.

3. RoomandBoard:
-Only one all latex mattress was there and it wasn't even close to the comfort/support/feel that the above stores had. I left after 15 minutes of trying to make it work (given the long subway ride to get to the store on a frigid day) to no avail.

So what did I learn?
-->I immediately ruled out anything with an innerspring, I knew I wanted all-latex (which completely surprised me, never even considered it). I do not want any petro (so memory foam is out, plus I never liked Tempurpedic so the desire to go that route wasn't there either) in my mattress and the latex just felt a lot more comfortable than any spring mattress I have tried out.
-->Based on what I tried, it was either Essentia Classic 8 (hold your memory foam comments for a minute) or Oyasumi II

So I went back to each store again, tried them both out again, this time using the lessons in the tutorials about support, feel, and then the scientific analysis of spinal alignment (side, back, etc.). I actually had the sales reps take pictures of me on my back & sides otherwise I wasn't sure how I could visually see my spinal alignment otherwise... Unfortunately, I can't really tell from the pics if I'm aligned or not...really tough to tell, maybe there's a trick to this? I can privately sent the pics to an admin here that has expertise in the area...I know "feeling good" on the mattress doesn't necessarily equate to proper alignment so I just want to be sure. I "felt" aligned (no spaces when running hand under body either), and I think I "look" aligned in the pics, but I'm just not sure how if I'm doing it right...

Anyway, after trying the Essentia & Oyasumi, the Oyasumi once again just felt so "right" to me. This was before I spent about 5 hours the past 2 nights reading all the Essentia posts here (re: memory foam, mktg tactics, lack of disclosure, etc.)....which basically helped me feel more comfortable in my decision to not go with them (but isn't the specific reason why I decided against them). Still good to have tried them out, gave me more basis for comparison, more knowledge to make an informed decision based on personal preference.

So this leads me to a few questions before I go for it:
1. Should I spend a weekend going to any other latex-focused stores within a 1-2 hour drive of me? If the Oyasumi feels fine, is it because I don't know what may feel even better? Should I not make a decision until I try out an all-Talalay mattress or at least something with a Dunlop/Talalay mix configuration? (I know there is a Latex Bliss store in CT, I saw all the links Phoenix posted of stores in the CT/NJ/Long Island area (just none in Rockland County or northern NJ it seems!)...)

2. Oyasumi II w/ foundation is $3629 (+ $200 for "white glove" delivery)...reasonable given quality (from posts here it sounds like quality of Sleeptek is pretty solid)? Overpaying by $1k? $500? Maybe worth that premium to me since I need a retailer to try the beds and don't feel comfortable buying online just based on configurations since, as my tests have shown me, lying on the mattress gives me an instant decision typically...last thing I want is to buy online and lie on it and ask myself why I didn't buy the "sure thing" that I tried and instead bought the "unknown" based on what I thought would feel good...

3. Should I PM my spinal alignment pics or is there an easier way to figure out if I'm aligned properly other than visual pics, running hand under my body, etc.?

4. Oyasumi foundation is $730....how much of a premium is that (as I'm sure it is...) vs. looking online for a foundation instead?

Thanks in advance, I'll keep you posted on whatever I end up doing (and I will TRY and convince my wife to make the trek to actually try the bed herself....although she keeps saying she trusts my judgment....yikes!)

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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: edited for search terms

Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 23 Jan 2014 20:03 #2

Hi spup345,

1. Essentia:
-Tried them all. Classic 8 felt best. I never liked Tempurpedic because I don't like sinking into my mattress. Right now I'm typing on my laptop on my bed and the last thing I want is to feel like I'm sitting on quicksand where every move takes effort. However the Classic 8 felt like the right mix. Nice firm dunlop core and the slight slow response on the top to cradle my body, but not to the extent where I felt like I was knee deep in muck. I was impressed and also surprised at how a non-innerspring mattress could feel so supportive & good...I started having doubts about my inner(spring) desires.


You can read some of my thoughts about Essentia and some discussions with them in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here . The information and claims on their website are misleading IMO and they are a manufacturer that I would be very cautious about considering ... especially if you don't want memory foam in your mattress (I see later in your post you've read at least some of these).

1. Should I spend a weekend going to any other latex-focused stores within a 1-2 hour drive of me? If the Oyasumi feels fine, is it because I don't know what may feel even better? Should I not make a decision until I try out an all-Talalay mattress or at least something with a Dunlop/Talalay mix configuration? (I know there is a Latex Bliss store in CT, I saw all the links Phoenix posted of stores in the CT/NJ/Long Island area (just none in Rockland County or northern NJ it seems!)...)


This is something that only you can decide based on how you feel about purchasing the Oyasumi, how much more research and testing you are comfortable with, how well it matches your personal value equation compared to any other options you have available, and whether it's in a budget range you are comfortable with. There are certainly no weak links in the mattress and it uses all high quality materials so from a quality/durability perspective it would make a good choice.

2. Oyasumi II w/ foundation is $3629 (+ $200 for "white glove" delivery)...reasonable given quality (from posts here it sounds like quality of Sleeptek is pretty solid)? Overpaying by $1k? $500? Maybe worth that premium to me since I need a retailer to try the beds and don't feel comfortable buying online just based on configurations since, as my tests have shown me, lying on the mattress gives me an instant decision typically...last thing I want is to buy online and lie on it and ask myself why I didn't buy the "sure thing" that I tried and instead bought the "unknown" based on what I thought would feel good...


I agree with you that this may be in a higher budget range compared to other mattresses that use the same "raw materials" but once again the "value" of a mattress purchase depends on what you are comparing it to, what else is available to you either in your area or online (for those who are comfortable with an online purchase) and on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you. Value is always relative to what you are comparing it to and the parts of "value" that are most important to you.

3. Should I PM my spinal alignment pics or is there an easier way to figure out if I'm aligned properly other than visual pics, running hand under my body, etc.?


Unfortunately this isn't a service I provide and would lead to me being overwhelmed with requests that I wouldn't have the time to deal with and that others are in a better position to help with anyway. Pictures (for those who take and use them) are also only one part of deciding whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP along with the other testing guidelines that are linked in the tutorial post (including the most important which is your own perceptions on the mattress). There are three links there that can help with testing for alignment. Pictures also don't have a reference point for comparison or the ability to look from multiple angles or when you move. While they can certainly be a help ... by themselves they are something I would use as an aid but not as the only way to decide if a mattress is a good choice for you.

4. Oyasumi foundation is $730....how much of a premium is that (as I'm sure it is...) vs. looking online for a foundation instead?


The foundation post here includes a wide range of foundations and pricing that you can use for comparison.

I'm happy to help with the "first half" of each person's research which is "how" to make the best choices, eliminate the worse ones, provide some good sources and options I'm aware of, provide information that can be used as a general guideline, help you fact check information you come across, help identify any areas of concern or weak links in a mattress, and of course to provide general guidance as much as possible along the way, but beyond this the final choice is really up to each person's best judgement and individual circumstances and preferences.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 24 Jan 2014 18:10 #3

Thanks for the response. I hear you on most of the points. I guess what you could help me with is let's assume I want to go ahead & try out a few more all latex mattresses to compare & contrast with the Sleeptek for peace of mind. So far I've only tried Dunlop configurations. I tried a talalay topper but I don't think that really does much for me for sake of comparison...

Are there any stores near me (see my profile zip, let me know if you need it), or within an hour driving distance I guess, where I can try more of a selection or range of all latex configurations that would round out my personal preference "map"? If there is no way I can try Talalay or a Talalay/Dunlop mix or any other concoction you can think of within a reasonable driving distance, then I'll end up with the Oyasumi just by default (not that I'd necessarily be disappointed because I may not know what I am "missing").

And what links were you referring to when speaking of the alignment test: "There are three links there that can help with testing for alignment."

Thanks again.

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Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 24 Jan 2014 19:06 #4

Hi spup345,

Are there any stores near me (see my profile zip, let me know if you need it), or within an hour driving distance I guess, where I can try more of a selection or range of all latex configurations that would round out my personal preference "map"? If there is no way I can try Talalay or a Talalay/Dunlop mix or any other concoction you can think of within a reasonable driving distance, then I'll end up with the Oyasumi just by default (not that I'd necessarily be disappointed because I may not know what I am "missing").


Post #4 here includes links to the forum lists that are closest to you and there are a number of retailers or manufacturers in them that seem to be an hour or less away from you that use Talalay latex in either the whole mattress or in the comfort layer of their mattresses that may be worth a visit. A few phone calls will identify which of them have a selection of Talalay latex that you would be interested in trying.

I added a link to the Pure Latex Bliss retail store finder to the Northern New Jersey list because they make a range of Talalay latex mattresses and you can use your zip code to find the stores closest to you.

And what links were you referring to when speaking of the alignment test: "There are three links there that can help with testing for alignment."


They are three of the links in step 4 of the tutorial post ...

Some suggestions for testing for pressure relief are in this article and for testing for alignment (which is a little more difficult) are in this article and in post #11 here . There are also some great suggestions in Post #1 here . I would also remember that testing for more subjective perceptions of "comfort" alone has less than a 50/50 chance of making the most suitable choice (see this study ) so more careful and objective testing is one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.


Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 30 Jan 2014 20:01 #5

Interim update with a few questions. I'm piece-mealing my research unfortunately since I don't live in NYC so I need to gradually try beds over a few weeks. Today was Scott Jordan's BE (Berkeley Ergo) beds. A few things to note:

1. Aaron the sales rep was VERY helpful. He was the first sales rep so far that was able to specifically point out my body positioning, how to properly align, showed me on his iPad what I looked like while lying on each bed, and indicated which beds I was best aligned. He read the Ergonomics of Sleeping or something along those lines and what he pointed out looked right to me and made sense and helped me with that part of the "equation"

2. Tried the All Latex, the Oslo, and the Stockholm. My first time on Talalay (only Dunlop before this).
-They were all nice overall, the soft Talalay side of each mattress was too soft for my liking, the firm side was better on both overall comfort and also for overall proper body alignment.
-Definitely agree that Talalay has that more "lively" feel relative to Dunlop (at least the Dunlop I tried in the Oyasumi at Clean Bedroom.)
-I wasn't a Stockholm fan (thinner Talalay on top, microcoils & large coils base), too firm.
-Oslo firm side was great, as was the All Latex firm side. It was VERY difficult to figure out which I preferred. As sales rep notes, my wife may need to be the tie breaker...they can make do a split mattress (one side soft, one side firm) which is nice.

Questions:
-Radium Talalay -- Is it good (high quality, durable, etc.)?

-Their latex base was, he believed, from Latex International in the US because he said it would be too $$ to get the quality of the Radium to serve as the full thick base. Latex International he said was the most cost effective way to have a firm Talalay base upon which they can put the higher quality Radium. Is this all accurate? Should I have concerns about the base?

-He said that Dunlop typically has clay in it and it will wear down over time (clay will settle to the bottom, end up on the floor over time, that Talalay doesn't have this issue). Is this accurate? If yes, does it apply to all Dunlops (specifically, the Sleeptek Sri Lanka Dunlop in the Oyasumi @ Clean Bedroom)? If yes, is Talalay the more durable/longer lasting purchase then?

-He said that the All Latex may be wiser for a longevity pt. of view vs. the Oslo (tall/short coils with Talalay on top) because as we get older, people tend to prefer the plushness of the latex core instead of a coil core....any truth to this?

-He said that if I went All Latex instead of the Oslo coil, my body may take a month or so to get used to (or "learn") sleeping on a non-coil mattress since I've been on coils all my life....this make sense? Is there any reason why this should concern me if I don't care about the training period?

-Their mattresses are 10-yr warranty....does that mean I'll need a new mattress or topper or coils after 10-years to due gradual wear/tear? Would the all-latex mattress get me more longevity than the Oslo w/ the coil base? (The good thing is their cover zips open so I can change out the base or topper whenever I want he said instead of buying a whole new mattress...)

-Total cost w/ foundation & delivery was about 1/2 that of the Oyasumi at Clean Bedroom. Isn't Talalay more generally more $$ than Dunlop? Is there any fundamental reason why the Oyasumi (Sleeptek Euro II) would or should cost 2x the BE All Talalay latex bed (i.e. ~$3500 vs. ~1800)? He seemed to indicate they use similar quality materials to something like a Duxiana but some folks like paying through the nose because they think it speaks to quality...

Not entirely relevant, but I'm curious about this:
-He said that athletes/etc. tend to like the Stockholm for its firmness because if you are very muscular/strong/heavy, firm body on firm base (lots of coils in Stockholm) gives you less of a "bruising feeling" than firm body on a softer base because the softer materials can feel like they are pushing against your body (I guess like the princess & the pea concept in reverse)....is this accurate in general?

Overall though, a great experience, highly recommend a visit to the store for those shopping in NYC (nice furniture there too...). Didn't realize it's the only store (not a chain) and been there for 33 years he said.

White Lotus (@ Futonland) & Dixie Foam next up...then I will have tried Dunlop combo's, Talalay combo's, and coil & micro-coil/latex combo's. Should be enough of a sampling to figure out my favorite along with the help with the answers here!

Thanks as always!!!

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Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 30 Jan 2014 22:07 #6

Hi spup345,

He read the Ergonomics of Sleeping or something along those lines


This is probably the book he meant and it's one of the best on the topic and is really in depth and informative :)

-Radium Talalay -- Is it good (high quality, durable, etc.)?


Yes ... you can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here but Radium makes great quality Talalay and they have also told me that the softer versions of their 100% natural uses a special curing paste so that it has the equivalent durability to their blended Talalay.

-Their latex base was, he believed, from Latex International in the US because he said it would be too $$ to get the quality of the Radium to serve as the full thick base. Latex International he said was the most cost effective way to have a firm Talalay base upon which they can put the higher quality Radium. Is this all accurate? Should I have concerns about the base?


They would know more than I would about which type of Talalay they use in their base layers.

-He said that Dunlop typically has clay in it and it will wear down over time (clay will settle to the bottom, end up on the floor over time, that Talalay doesn't have this issue). Is this accurate? If yes, does it apply to all Dunlops (specifically, the Sleeptek Sri Lanka Dunlop in the Oyasumi @ Clean Bedroom)? If yes, is Talalay the more durable/longer lasting purchase then?


I treat 100% natural Dunlop (which typically doesn't include clay which is a filler) and blended Talalay as being equivalent in terms of durability. 100% natural Talalay would be a little less durable although Radium have told me they compensate for this with a different curing past. None of the better quality 100% Dunlop manufacturers use clay fillers as far as I know (including the better known manufacturers like Arpico or Latex Green or CoCo latex).

-Their mattresses are 10-yr warranty....does that mean I'll need a new mattress or topper or coils after 10-years to due gradual wear/tear? Would the all-latex mattress get me more longevity than the Oslo w/ the coil base? (The good thing is their cover zips open so I can change out the base or topper whenever I want he said instead of buying a whole new mattress...)


Warranties have nothing to do with how long a mattress will last any specific person or when they may need to be replaced (see post #174 here ). You can read more about the factors that affect the relative durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here . With a component mattress then yes you can just replace the layers which have softened or broken down without replacing the whole mattress.

Not entirely relevant, but I'm curious about this:
-He said that athletes/etc. tend to like the Stockholm for its firmness because if you are very muscular/strong/heavy, firm body on firm base (lots of coils in Stockholm) gives you less of a "bruising feeling" than firm body on a softer base because the softer materials can feel like they are pushing against your body (I guess like the princess & the pea concept in reverse)....is this accurate in general?


They would know more about the body types that their mattresses "fit" on average than I would but what they are saying makes sense to me because athletes tend to be more "finely tuned" and sensitive to sleeping out of alignment.

-Total cost w/ foundation & delivery was about 1/2 that of the Oyasumi at Clean Bedroom. Isn't Talalay more generally more $$ than Dunlop? Is there any fundamental reason why the Oyasumi (Sleeptek Euro II) would or should cost 2x the BE All Talalay latex bed (i.e. ~$3500 vs. ~1800)? He seemed to indicate they use similar quality materials to something like a Duxiana but some folks like paying through the nose because they think it speaks to quality...


100% natural Talalay is generally a more costly material than 100% natural Dunlop yes although the cover and quilting and the other parts of a mattress' construction and materials can also have a significant effect on the price of a mattress and like any industry there are many other differences between the pricing policies and costs, and margins of different retailers and manufacturers that are included in the cost of a mattress. These kind of differences are not uncommon in the industry (which is why it's always a good idea to make some careful comparisons) but which one is the "best value" for you would depend on all the criteria of your personal value equation that were most important to you ... including the price of course.

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 31 Jan 2014 04:30 #7

Thanks as always for the quick reply. A few follow-ups to help clarify the intent of my questions:
-I read the links on durability you posted above. In one of those links you wrote: ""Innersprings that are good quality will also be very durable (often 15 + years) and can last longer than the foams above them."" -->

Questions:
-Do you know if the pocketed coils used in the BE beds are of this "good quality"?

-Assuming the base of the BE bed is indeed Latex International USA Talalay, are they all the same quality/durability? Or is it possible to buy a very cheap version from Latex Int. that wouldn't last as long as a more $$ version? (this will hopefully lead me to the right questions to ask the store sales rep to possibly find out what quality the base is)


Excerpt from your reply to me:
"one of the better quality 100% Dunlop manufacturers use clay fillers as far as I know (including the better known manufacturers like Arpico or Latex Green or CoCo latex)."

Questions:
-Do you happen to know which Dunlop manufacturer the Sleeptek Euro II uses for its Dunlop layers? Their description indicates: "All natural Dunlop latex comes from Sri Lanka - harvested from rubber trees, processed near the plantation, eliminating need to add stabilizers to keep the milk from hardening in transit to factory (in Canada)" .....or do I need to flat out ask them?

Separate, additional question I just thought of:
-Does individually wrapping latex layers in cotton gauze impact any variables of a mattress (quality, durability, feel, ease of future replacement)? The Oslo has latex unwrapped & on top of the coils. The All Latex has the upper layer wrapped (sales rep said helps prevent rubbing against the support layer & wearing down). The Sleeptek Euro II has all 3 Dunlop layers individually wrapped.

I'll see if my local library has that book on sleeping (which he said may actually help put me to sleep :-) ).

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Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 31 Jan 2014 08:59 #8

Hi spup345,

-Do you know if the pocketed coils used in the BE beds are of this "good quality"?


Yes ... they are. In general the weak link of a mattress isn't the springs anyway (it's the materials above the spring) and springs that are much less costly than theirs would still be in a "good quality" range. The most important "spec" of a spring itself is the amount of steel inside it which isn't a spec which is disclosed by any manufacturer but beyond this the suitability of a spring for a particular type of construction and for the needs and preferences of a specific person is more important than most of the specs that most people use to try and evaluate springs which are incomplete at best (see this article and post #10 here ). Having said all that ... they pay particular attention to the quality and performance of the springs they use in their mattresses.

-Assuming the base of the BE bed is indeed Latex International USA Talalay, are they all the same quality/durability?


I would treat them as equivalent quality/durability yes (see post #6 here ). LI doesn't make any "bad latex" and there is no "bad" Talalay latex. If it's Talalay latex I would treat is as being a good quality material no matter who makes it.

-Do you happen to know which Dunlop manufacturer the Sleeptek Euro II uses for its Dunlop layers?


I would focus more on the type and blend of the latex rather than asking any manufacturer who their suppliers are which is often proprietary information which they won't disclose. While I believe they use Arpico ... that could also change as mattress manufacturers will often change suppliers for many reasons. Its more important to know the type and blend of the latex than who makes it and I personally wouldn't be worried about "clay" additives in any of the 100% natural Dunlop latex used by a reputable manufacturer (which Sleeptek is). It may also be worth mentioning that in some cases there are some types of "fillers" used in latex that can actually improve its performance so I would be cautious about taking single "pieces" of generic information and reading too much into them without the context that is necessary to "translate" them into something that is meaningful or useful in practical terms.

-Does individually wrapping latex layers in cotton gauze impact any variables of a mattress (quality, durability, feel, ease of future replacement)?


See post #2 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 31 Jan 2014 14:30 #9

Just ran to Futonland (and I mean ran...had to squeeze it in between end of work day & catching train home!).

Luckily (or unluckily), there was really only 1 bed to try out. The sales rep was assisting another individual and was unable to offer any assistance for the 20 minutes I was there, outside of confirming that the 1 bed I tried was indeed the only White Lotus latex option they offered.

Twin Bed (small store - mostly futons - so floorspace required small bed):
-3" latex topper: 2" latex (unsure if Talalay or Dunlop) wrapped in wool & encased in cotton to make 3" total = $981
-On top of a 7" latex mattress: 6" latex (unsure Tal or Dun) wrapped in wool & encased in cotton to make 7" total = $2209

My observations (never a substitute for your own of course):
-Immediately could sense pressure points on my buttocks, shoulders....was definitely easier to feel a slight gap under the curve of my lower back which I didn't feel in any other latex mattresses. Definitely felt firmer & less comfortable than others I've tried.
-2 separate components as opposed to the other latex mattresses I've tried where all the latex was fully encased to make a single unit. Negative is that it could move around a bit when making the bed, moving around, getting on & off, etc... The positive is super easy replacement, but I prefer 1 unit...

Overall, the pressure points combined with the, what I felt, to be a very high price point ($3200 and that didn't include a foundation) relative to other options I tried, made this a short trip & easy decision to rule it out.

At this point, I'll just be trying Dixie Foam. Unless they have some great option, my guess is either the Scott Jordan (Oslo or All Latex) or the Oyasumi...curious to try the Oyasumi again after haven't felt the Talalay.

I have once again learned that empowering yourself with knowledge and then doing real world testing, the decision becomes apparent fairly quickly.

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Almost ready to buy! All-latex...some final advice requested 31 Jan 2014 16:15 #10

Hi spup345,

I have once again learned that empowering yourself with knowledge and then doing real world testing, the decision becomes apparent fairly quickly.


I couldn't agree more ... and both are an important part of making the best possible choice.

I'm looking forward to more of your feedback and of course finding out what you end up choosing.

Phoenix
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