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Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 20 Feb 2014 13:42 #1

Hi Phoenix,

I visited a local store in my area called Sleep Craft and I found a mattress that I think might work.

There are a couple things that I wanted to run by you. They had an innerspring/latex hybrid mattress that is double sided. Here is the break down of materials:

Blended cotton batting 45%
Latex foam 20%
Polyurethane Foam 15%
Enduralator Pad 15%
Poly-Rayon Fiber 5%

They don't actually let you choose your layers, nor do they have an option of down substitute. But you can choose the softness or ILD of the latex. Does the breakdown of materials sound good?

The talalay latex is 4" thick, 2" on each side since it's double sided. Is that enough thickness of latex to actually feel a difference in the ILD rating? I wanted softer like 25-28. But it doesn't seem like enough latex to feel a difference.

The polyurethane foam is quilted to the fabric, 2", 1" on each side. Does this sound reasonable? I know it's better to stay away from polyurethane if possible but that seems fairly minor.

And the coils in the mattress are 13 and 1/2" thick which I think is fairly heavy which is good i think.

The final question that I had was about the box spring. I really like the feel of an actual box spring with springs but he was saying that it does cause a lot of movement in the mattress. Any thoughts on an actual box spring with springs? He did say that true spring box springs do prolong the life of the mattress but I wasn't sure. The one I have now is like a modular grid (limited deflection), no springs.

Thank you very much for your help,

JS

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Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 20 Feb 2014 14:12 #2

Hi js715,

They don't actually let you choose your layers, nor do they have an option of down substitute. But you can choose the softness or ILD of the latex. Does the breakdown of materials sound good?


There is some missing information and I'm not sure if the layers and components are listed in order from top to bottom (or bottom to top) but if the polyfoam layers are an inch or less on each side then there would be no obvious weak links in the mattress (although I would still want to know the type and blend of the latex and the more specific details of the design along the lines of post #4 here ).

The talalay latex is 4" thick, 2" on each side since it's double sided. Is that enough thickness of latex to actually feel a difference in the ILD rating? I wanted softer like 25-28. But it doesn't seem like enough latex to feel a difference.


Yes you would most likely feel a difference between different ILD's. Both the thickness and firmness of the latex and the type and firmness of the innerspring underneath it will affect the pressure relief of the mattress.

And the coils in the mattress are 13 and 1/2" thick which I think is fairly heavy which is good i think.


You probably mean 13.5 gauge wire which is on the thicker/firmer side but the innerspring won't normally be the weak link of the mattress anyway so I would evaluate it based on your testing for PPP (including motion separation with both of you on the mattress if you sleep with a partner) rather than on the specs of the spring.

The final question that I had was about the box spring. I really like the feel of an actual box spring with springs but he was saying that it does cause a lot of movement in the mattress. Any thoughts on an actual box spring with springs?


A box spring that is designed to work with an innerspring mattress is generally a good choice and can have a positive effect both on PPP and on the durability of the mattress (it adds some "give" under the mattress and cushions any "shocks" on the springs, border wire, and helicals which can affect their durability) but as he mentioned it can affect motion separation and movement on the mattress. Whether you choose a solid foundation (or a modular grid such as you have) vs a box spring would really be a matter of preference (and can change the feel and performance of the mattress) but it's important that the manufacturer confirms that your foundation would meet their warranty criteria. The "best" choice for a foundation/box spring with a new mattress is generally the one that the manufacturer recommends, especially if it's designed to be part of and affect the performance of the "sleeping system".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 27 Feb 2014 15:08 #3

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your response! I wanted to be sure that I read everything that you referenced in your response before responding back. I was able to get additional information from them.

1. The type and thickness of all the layers or components in a mattress listed in order from the top down (or the bottom up) to make sure they add up to the thickness of the mattress.

It is double-sided. Here are the layers of the mattress:

Top - 100% cotton
1" polyurethane quilted to cotton top
2" talalay latex
1" 100% cotton layers (it's 3" out of the box but condenses down)
1/2" endurater pads (cotton felt)
thin nylon netting
6" of springs
thin nylon netting
1/2" endurater pads (cotton felt)
1" 100% cotton layers
2" talalay latex
1" polyurethane quilted to cotton top

Corners of mattress are stuffed with cotton and edge clips attached to the springs. No glue is used between the layers but hog rings or steel staples are used to attach all the layers together.


2. The density of any polyfoam or memory foam layers (in lbs per cu. ft.).

He didn't know the density. They only use 1" on each side. What they use is manufactured by Allied Foam.


3. The type (Dunlop or Talalay) and blend (the percentage of natural rubber and synthetic rubber) of any latex layers.

It is Talalay latex and he said that it is 100% natural latex, not blended. They use latex from Latex Int'l.


4. The type of innerspring, the gauge of the coils, the number of the coils, and the density of any polyfoam edge support.

Their coils are tempered steel and it is open ended off-set coils. Helical wire on top and bottom of coils. They get their coils from Leggett and Platt. He said that the gauge is between 13-14.


5. The type of fabric and any quilting materials used in the cover. If the quilting material is polyfoam or memory foam and is in the range of "around an inch or so" or less then it's not essential to know the density.

The type of fabric is 100% cotton and the polyurethane is quilted in with it.

Okay, so does this information ring true for a pretty nice quality mattress? Are there any structural weak links that you can see? Any red flags? Is this all of the information that I would need to make an informed decision?

Thanks!

JS

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Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 27 Feb 2014 15:55 #4

Hi js715,

Okay, so does this information ring true for a pretty nice quality mattress? Are there any structural weak links that you can see? Any red flags? Is this all of the information that I would need to make an informed decision?


All the materials are good quality and the "unknown" foam in the quilting layer is less than around an inch or so (which is the guidelines that I use) so there are no obvious weak links or "red flags" in the design so the only thing to make sure of is that you have tested it carefully to make sure that it's a good match for you in terms of PPP (along with the other parts of your personal value equation that may be important to you).

From a quality/durability perspective it certainly looks good :)

Phoenix
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Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 05 Mar 2014 16:08 #5

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you so much for your help so far. It has been invaluable.

I'm really close to deciding on the final specs and one of them is deciding between 2" and 3" of the talalay latex layer. Which in reference to my post above is the second layer. Does an extra inch of latex really change the feel and comfort?

I also have to decide on the ILD of the latex. The owner of the store said that I wouldn't really feel a difference between the ILDs unless it's between like 19 and 27. I don't want to go above 27 or 28 because I don't do well on firmer mattresses. I know it's such a personal decision but does my height/weight factor in? 5'7" at around 140 lbs. I was thinking that a 24 or 25 would be reasonable because even though that is fairly soft, it would be counteracted by the coils in the structure of the mattress. I'm having trouble remembering the breakdown of ILD ratings from soft to firm.

Another question I had was about the hog rings or steel staples that are used to attach the layers together. Is that a fairly common practice? I wasn't sure what the benefit of that was aside from keeping the layers together and not shifting. The staples are heavy gauge steel. Is that an okay material?

Can you recommend a good place to buy pillows? I desperately need good quality pillows and I've heard that latex pillows are good.

Thanks again!

JS

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Advice for Hybrid Latex/Coil Mattress 05 Mar 2014 18:42 #6

Hi js715,

I'm really close to deciding on the final specs and one of them is deciding between 2" and 3" of the talalay latex layer. Which in reference to my post above is the second layer. Does an extra inch of latex really change the feel and comfort?


It can certainly make a difference yes but some people may notice it much more than others and some may not notice the difference at all. It will also depend on the person and what is above and below the latex.

I also have to decide on the ILD of the latex. The owner of the store said that I wouldn't really feel a difference between the ILDs unless it's between like 19 and 27. I don't want to go above 27 or 28 because I don't do well on firmer mattresses.


Once again ... how much of a difference someone will feel with different ILD's depends on all the other layers that are above and below it and on the individual person and their body type, sleeping style, and individual sensitivities. While most people wouldn't notice much difference between smaller differences in ILD (in the range of 4 or less or sometimes more) if the rest of the mattress was exactly the same, some people are much more sensitive than others to smaller differences in a mattress. Your own personal testing and experience on both is the most reliable way to know. If you are dealing with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer (such as Sleep Craft in Lewisville if that's who you are dealing with) then I would also put a lot of weight on their suggestions and guidance about the differences between what you are testing and another design you are considering that you haven't tested in person (which would be a little more risky than a mattress you've tested that is the same as you end up buying). Your careful and accurate testing will tell you much more than ILD and other mattress specs or any "theory at a distance" about which mattress is the best match for you in terms of PPP. Nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress. You need the quality specs of a mattress to make sure there are no weak links in the mattress and to make more meaningful comparisons but your testing for PPP is much more important than any "comfort specs" or "theory".

Another question I had was about the hog rings or steel staples that are used to attach the layers together. Is that a fairly common practice?


In better innerspring mattresses this is common yes ... in lower quality mattresses then not as much (and the layers would shift more and the mattress would have a higher risk of losing its shape).

Can you recommend a good place to buy pillows? I desperately need good quality pillows and I've heard that latex pillows are good.


Pillow preferences are even more individual than mattresses so I don't think it's possible for anyone to recommend a specific pillow that someone else may like but the pillow thread here may be helpful and has some good basic information about choosing a pillow and some feedback from the members here.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.
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