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diy mattress 17 Apr 2014 13:50 #1

Hi,
I have a few questions pertaining to the "fliptopbed" sold by MFC (see following link). I would be purchasing a double, if that makes any difference.


en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/memory-foam-mattress.html
By
1) Is this type of "construction" solid? I.e., will the sides of the bed have too much give since there is no reinforcement around the 3 layers?

2) Will the 3 layers be shifting noticeably because they are not encased? Would you recommend taking off the covers for better layer adhesion?

In general, what do you think of this model? I was told the base foam is 38 ILD. What ILD would you recommend for the latex layer?

I am a 125 pound 50 year old female (skin elasticity fading away if not long gone).I am mainly a side sleeper, and spend as much time in bed as possible. I presently sleep on a 10 year old futon, which offers me good support - spring mattresses give me lumbar pain within a week - but terrible comfort - no pressure relief to speak of.

Finally, do you think adding a 2 inch latex topper to said futon would be worth a try, in as much as I could purchase the foam and memory foam later from MFC if this rather cheap maneuver didn't cut it?

Thanks for any feedback

Dodo

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Last edit: by dodo. Reason: forgot to put my weight

diy mattress 17 Apr 2014 15:11 #2

Hi dodo,

en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/memory-foam-mattress.html
By
1) Is this type of "construction" solid? I.e., will the sides of the bed have too much give since there is no reinforcement around the 3 layers?


Yes ... all the materials are high quality and durable so there are no weak links in the mattress. Foam mattresses generally don't need edge support if the support layer is firm enough although to some degree this is also a preference. There is more about the pros and cons of edge support in post #33 here . A 38 ILD polyfoam support layer would certainly be on the firm side so it would be less likely to need any edge support.

2) Will the 3 layers be shifting noticeably because they are not encased? Would you recommend taking off the covers for better layer adhesion?


With a suitable cover (which it has) it shouldn't be an issue no and I would use the mattress as it's designed.

In general, what do you think of this model? I was told the base foam is 38 ILD. What ILD would you recommend for the latex layer?


It certainly uses very high quality materials and there are no weak links in the design. I also like the options it provides to fine tune the mattress after a purchase. They are also a member here which means I think highly of them and I believe they compete well with the best in the industry . When you can't test a mattress in person then the most effective way to choose a firmness level is a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests in mind (which they are) because they will know more about matching their specific mattresses to different people and will give you better guidance about which of their options has the best chance of success than anyone else (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Finally, do you think adding a 2 inch latex topper to said futon would be worth a try, in as much as I could purchase the foam and memory foam later from MFC if this rather cheap maneuver didn't cut it?


If your futon still has a firm and even surface and there are no soft spots or impressions in it and all you need is some additional pressure relief and comfort then a topper can be a good option to extend the comfort life of a mattress or futon. The "risk" is in choosing the most suitable material, thickness, and firmness level because a topper will feel and perform differently on different mattresses or futons. Post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to can help you choose a topper using your actual experience on your futon as a reference.

Phoenix
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diy mattress 24 Apr 2014 00:54 #3

Thanks Phoenix,

I placed an order based on your input. The seller, Mario, was very helpful as well. I'll provide feedback when I receive the foam.

Dodo

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diy mattress 24 Apr 2014 10:17 #4

Hi dodo,

Congratulations on your purchase :)

I'm looking forward to your feedback after you receive it .

Did you end up buying a topper or a new mattress?

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

diy mattress 24 Apr 2014 15:26 #5

Hi again,

I basically ordered the "fliptop bed" without the top confort layer of memory foam:

Thus: 6 inch HR foam 38 ILD + 2 inch Latex blend 30 ILD.

I was a little concerned about sleeping warm with memory foam, and I also figured I could easily add another confort layer if I found the bed too firm. I'm used to an old futon, so I doubt that will be an issue, though. I'm more concerned about the opposite.

I have one last question for you on that topic, if you don't mind.

As you can see by this link,

en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/hd-hr-foam-collection.html

HD foam has higher ILD numbers than HR foam to describe the same level of firmness. Why is that? Is it because of the higher density/weight of HR foam?

Thanks again for your help and all the excellent articles on this site.

Dodo

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diy mattress 24 Apr 2014 18:12 #6

Hi dodo,

HD foam has higher ILD numbers than HR foam to describe the same level of firmness. Why is that? Is it because of the higher density/weight of HR foam?

Thanks again for your help and all the excellent articles on this site.


All polyfoam is measured in the same way for ILD but ILD (often called IFD with polyfoam) only measures the resistance of the material when a 4" layer is compressed by 25% (see post #6 here about ILD). There are also several other specs besides ILD that contribute to the perception of firmness/softness in a material which are compression modulus, and point elasticity both of which (along with the thickness of a layer) can affect the perception of firmness/softness (see post #4 here ). HR polyfoam has a higher compression modulus than HD polyfoam which means that even though it would be the same firmness if you only compressed the material by 25% ... it will become firmer faster than HD polyfoam if you compress it more than that (and would be softer if you compress it less than 25%) and since most people don't sink into a mattress by exactly 25% ... their firmness ratings would probably be based more on what people actually feel on different materials "on average" than they would on ILD alone.

Because firmness and softness depend on many variables (not the least of which is the person themselves) ... comfort or firmness ratings can vary depending on the manufacturer, the person, and by the type of material that is being described and there is no consistent standard between different manufacturers, different materials, or between different people about what a soft, medium, or firm material really is, especially if it's only based on one of several variables that can affect what people "feel".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

diy mattress 30 Apr 2014 12:10 #7

Hey Phoenix,

So here's my promised feedback on my purchase from MFC (Canada).

Short version: I'm pleased as punch.

Long version:

Shipping: bed was at my door less than two weeks after placing my order. Not bad considering the Easter holiday, and considering the fact that I live on the East coast, and that MFC ships mattresses from the West coast. The packing was very professional (no vacuum packing, two solid plastic covers for each type of foam).

Quality & comfort: I'm amazed by the quality and feel of the HR foam. Very supportive and firm, but not hard. I don't even need the latex topper to feel comfortable. ( As said, FOR ME, the latex topper adds a luxury feel, but is not indispensable for comfort. I may actually slip it under the HR foam if I can't get used to this level of plushness. BTW, would that be the best way to store it, or should I roll it back up and store it in a bag?)

Conclusion: I can't recommend MFC highly enough. The same goes for the seller I spoke to (Mario), a really honest man.

Hope this helps Canadian shoppers.

P.S. I had obviously done some local shopping and research before ordering. I would NOT recommend ordering blind on the Internet based only on quoted IFD and the like.

One last note. You were right, Phoenix, about simply adding a topper to an old mattress. I tried the latex topper on my old futon out of curiosity, and the result was horrible.

Anyway, if I have anything to add after a period of wear-in, I'll update this post.

Thanks again Phoenix,
Happy dodo

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diy mattress 30 Apr 2014 12:49 #8

Hi dodo,

Congratulations on your new mattress ... and thanks for the terrific feedback. It certainly sounds like you made a great choice :)

I may actually slip it under the HR foam if I can't get used to this level of plushness. BTW, would that be the best way to store it, or should I roll it back up and store it in a bag?


Either way would be fine as long as it's not exposed to the air or light which can degrade latex prematurely (and it's covered so that shouldn't be an issue anyway). If you don't need it at all and you can't tell the difference with or without it under the mattress and you have the room I would probably store it in a bag so that it's not subject to any wear at all and so you can use it in the top layers of your mattress when you want to or feel like you "need it" or use it for a guest without having to take it out from underneath the mattress.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

diy mattress 29 May 2014 23:56 #9

Hey Phoenix,

Just a little update on my purchase from MFC, Canada (Memoryfoamcomfort).
It's been about a month since I got my new mattress, and I'm still very happy with it.

I did tweak my configuration, though, and figured my experience might help others.


Short version:
For better pressure point relief, I replaced my original 2 inch latex topper with 2 inches of 5 lb Aerus memory foam. For me, this a perfect combination. The support layer, six inches of HR foam, gives resilience, the comfort layer gives pressure point relief.


Long version:
Latex - or at least 2 inches of latex - just did not work for this bony, middle aged lady. I had sore hips getting out of bed in the morning (but my partner did not, which just goes to show you that not all hips are created equal.)
So I phoned the seller again (poor guy, he now knows as much about my aches and pains as my partner - I never imagined the mattress trade could get so personal). Anyways, he recommended using Aerus memory foam, without the latex, for pressure point relief, and he was right. I'm so impressed with this foam I'm afraid I'm about to go into excruciating detail about its merits.

I had hesitated to buy memory foam because of all the negatives I had read about it, i.e. heat issues, off gassing, etc.

Apart from off gassing, I've experienced none of these problems with Aerus foam. It is quick response (you don't get that sinking into wet clay feeling, you can roll over normally in bed). I don't get hot sleeping on it (in fact, sleeping on HR foam is way hotter than sleeping on Aerus foam, presumably because the latter is open celled and the former is not). Granted, I haven't slept on it during a heat wave, but at about 25 Celsius, even at 85% humidity, it's fine. And, being an over-fifty female, I'm very sensitive to heat.

All I use to wick away moisture (my own perspiration, presumably) is one or two cotton fitted sheets (I also use a plain-vanilla "breathable" waterproof polyurethane mattress protector placed directly over the topper - not a plus as regards moisture issues). The topper comes with a terry cloth cover (70% cotton), so that must help too, humidity wise. What's neat about memory foam is that you can "tweak it", for lack of a better word. By that I mean you can isolate it from body heat (and sweat) by adding layers of bedding - cotton, wool, flannel work well for heat issues. This in turn affects the firmness and contouring qualities of the foam. One note: since this type of foam does not seem to be highly heat sensitive, it MAY offer less pressure relief than "traditional" MF. I simply don't know. Maybe Phoenix could share his expertise here.

As said, there is off gassing - a sweet chemical smell, not a toxic waste smell, and not very strong. I aired out the MF about 5 days before putting it on the bed, although the smell was hardly noticeable after 3 days. That said, people who are very odor-sensitive might be put off by this. I now have to unzip the topper cover and bury my nose in the foam to find any odor at all (and I haven't bothered airing the thing out on my bed).

Conclusion: a slab of HR foam and a high quality memory foam topper such as this one makes for a supportive, comfortable, and inexpensive bed. Plus you can flip over the base and topper individually. I cannot recommend piling two two-inch toppers on a foam base, though. It might work if all the layers were glued together, but if they aren't, it will feel like a marshmallow.

So there you go. Never thought I would one day wax lyrical about memory foam, HR foam, or any other kind of foam. That's the pursuit of comfort for you...

Sybarites of the world unite!

- dodo

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diy mattress 30 May 2014 11:17 #10

Hi dodo,

Thanks for taking the time to share such detailed comments and feedback ... I appreciate it.

It sounds like you ended up with the perfect combination for you and 5 lb Aerus is certainly a very good quality memory foam.

One note: since this type of foam does not seem to be highly heat sensitive, it MAY offer less pressure relief than "traditional" MF. I simply don't know. Maybe Phoenix could share his expertise here.


There are a lot of variables involved with pressure relief including the softness/firmness, compression modulus (the rate that a foam gets firmer as you compress it), point elasticity (ability to contour to the body shape), and thickness of the foam layers as well as environmental conditions in the case of memory foam and all of these would vary on a "foam by foam" basis. It can also vary with each person's body type and sleeping positions and the other layers of the sleeping system so it's not really possible to generalize. Having said that ... memory foam and latex and even HR polyfoam all contour well to different body shapes and in suitable designs, thickness, and firmness levels can provide great pressure relief but with a different "feel". The most important thing though is that the combination you are using provides great pressure relief for you. :)

Phoenix
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