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Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 06:17 #1

Another new direct-to-consumer mattress start-up has popped up: Casper

Looks like they have a latex top layer but are more expensive than Tuft & Needle. I had made up my mind to buy the new thicker T&N but now I'll have to wait for the reviews on this one.




EDIT: BTW, This is my first post but I've been lurking here, on and off, for a few months. Thanks to all the regulars for your advice.

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Last edit: by adrian.

Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 06:47 #2

Interesting FAQs especially the "sack factor" It's hard enough to get ILDs and density specs...now we have the "sack factor" to consider. I considered a DIY with latex over foam so I am curious to hear any reviews. Casper appears to have only one model that is "to the right of medium/firm."

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Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 13:28 #3

Hi adrian,

Looks like they have a latex top layer but are more expensive than Tuft & Needle. I had made up my mind to buy the new thicker T&N but now I'll have to wait for the reviews on this one.


They are certainly an interesting new entry into the market (and thanks for mentioning them :)) but there is also a fair bit of "marketing speak" on their site and some inaccurate or misleading information.

They are also a completely different type and design of mattress from the Tuft & Needle and use synthetic latex and 4 lb memory foam in the comfort layers which are more costly materials than the polyfoam in the Tuft & Needle (although synthetic latex is the lowest cost type of latex and 4 lb memory foam is in a medium density/quality range for memory foam) so of course more costly materials leads to a mattress that has a higher price.

Reviews are also among the worst ways to choose a mattress because they can't tell you what you really need to know to make an informed mattress choice (see post #13 here ).

The most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is making sure that it's a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Each person is unique based on their body type, sleeping positions, individual preferences, and physiology so what is "perfect" for one or even many people in terms of PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on. When you can't test a mattress in person ... then you are completely dependent on the knowledge and experience of an online manufacturer or retailer along with the information you provide them and the results of your own personal testing on similar mattresses to help them help you choose a mattress that would likely be the best "match" for you and if there is only one option then it's an "all or nothing" choice (see post #2 here ). With an online purchase that you can't test in person ... then the options you have after a purchase to fine tune, exchange, or return the mattress may also become a more important part of your personal value equation . In their case ... they do have a good 40 day return policy but your own testing or sleeping experience experience will tell you more about how suitable a mattress is for you than any reviews that only tell you how other people feel on the mattress which may be very different from your own experience.

The next most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is the durability of the materials. No matter how well a mattress matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP, if it uses lower quality materials they will soften, compress, or break down more quickly than higher quality and more durable materials. This can lead to the premature loss of comfort and support and the need to replace a mattress more quickly than you would otherwise hope (and the loss of comfort and support isn't a defect that is covered by a warranty). Once again ... reviews won't tell you about how durable a mattress will be for you. The only way to be able to assess the durability of a mattress is by knowing the type and quality of all the materials so you can identify any weak links in the design and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses. There is more about the variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here and the posts it links to. There is also more in post #4 here about the guidelines I would suggest to assess the quality and suitability of the materials in terms of durability. I would want to know the density of the base foam in the mattress (note added: ... it's 1.8 lb density) but for most people of average weights there wouldn't be any obvious weak links in the mattress.

While reviews will tell you very little about whether a mattress would be a good choice for you ... they can tell you more about the knowledge and service of the business itself. It's easy to get a flood of good reviews initially because reviews are relatively easy for marketers to manipulate at first (and marketing people are well aware that even though they aren't particularly useful that reviews can highly influence people's purchase choices for a mattress) ... over the course of time they can give you some insights into how they tend to deal with some of the issues that can arise after a purchase but but this also takes some time for patterns and trends to become clear after the initial "buzz" dies down.

Interesting FAQs especially the "sack factor" It's hard enough to get ILDs and density specs...now we have the "sack factor" to consider.


This is one of several examples of incorrect or somewhat misleading information on their site and it seems that the marketing people had more to do with some of the information there than "mattress people". Compression modulus is a foam specification that tells how quickly a material becomes firmer as you compress it more deeply and it has several other names including "sag factor" which is what they probably mean. Of course it's also possible that "sack factor" is mentioned in humor but it's unlikely because only someone who knows about compression modulus would "get it" which is a small percentage of the population so it's more likely that this and some of the other information on their site was the result of marketing people not completely understanding what they were putting on the site.

Overall it's an interesting option and on a personal level I do like the "feel" of a thin layer of latex over memory foam (although there are other designs I prefer more) but this is also just a personal preference of mine and would also have nothing to do with what any other people may prefer.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 17:53 #4

This is great information. Phoenix, do you think that having 1-1/2 of synthetic latex and 1-1/2 inch of 4lb foam is worth the price? I"m kind of curious about that. It seems like from reading your materials page that the Casper mattress seems to be hitting all the minimum points which makes it better in my book than T&N since they only use 2lb foam. I'm asking about the weight of their base layer and it does seem like their website is all talk.

Their return policy is fair and actually shocking since they let you return it within 40 days versus other companies requiring you to keep it for 30-60 days

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Last edit: by frozendarkness.

Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 19:03 #5

Hi frozendarkness,

Phoenix, do you think that having 1-1/2 of synthetic latex and 1-1/2 inch of 4lb foam is worth the price?


That would depend entirely on how well you sleep on it. If it's a good match for you then it would be. If it isn't ... then it wouldn't. The price of the mattress as a whole seems reasonable to me although there are also mattresses available from the members here that use 8" or 9" of synthetic latex in the same approximate price range and they have the ability to customize the layers both before and after a purchase. There are also latex hybrid mattresses available that use 3" of blended Talalay latex (which is a more costly material than either 4 lb memory foam or synthetic Dunlop latex) with a polyfoam base layer that are in a lower budget range than the Casper. The most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is how well it matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP and the quality/durability of the materials and there are certainly other options available in this price range that use the same or better quality materials overall.

A mattress isn't a commodity where you can use a formula to determine value based on the cost per inch or pound of materials and the "value" of a mattress purchase needs to include all the other factors that your "best judgement" tells you is "best for you" regardless of whether it may be best for someone else. Choosing a mattress based on the price per inch or price per pound of the raw materials would be similar to choosing between two suits of clothing that used similar materials based on their cost per pound of material rather than on how well they fit, how they look, how they feel when you wear them, and if you hadn't tried them out in person what your options are if they don't fit as well as you hoped (much of which would be subjective and based on preference).

It seems like from reading your materials page that the Casper mattress seems to be hitting all the minimum points which makes it better in my book than T&N since they only use 2lb foam.


You can't really compare the density of polyfoam and memory foam because they are made in different density ranges. 4 lb memory foam is a medium quality/density material that would be fine for most people of average weight but I would be cautious using it in thicker layers with higher weights. 2 lb polyfoam on the other hand is a high quality/density material that I would be comfortable using with higher weights. Having said that ... polyfoam is a lower cost material than either memory foam or latex and it has a different "feel" than either. Only 3" of the Casper mattress is specialty foam and the remaining 7" is also polyfoam (1.8 lb density). Which one is "better" would depend entirely on your individual preferences and which one of your finalists was a better match for you in terms of PPP and the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Their return policy is fair and actually shocking since they let you return it within 40 days versus other companies requiring you to keep it for 30-60 days


The return policy is good but it's not as long as Tuft & Needle (at least for the members of the forum) or some of the other better online manufacturers or retailers that are included in the lists that are linked in the tutorial post (some of which are 120 days) but in almost all cases a purchaser would know whether a mattress was a suitable choice in terms of PPP within the first 30 days.

It's always important to make sure you are making apples to apples comparisons and not to pay too much attention to marketing information.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 20:27 #6

Just FYI for people here but the bottom 7" polyfoam is 1.5lbs density which seems also just borderline acceptable. I'm a heavyset guy so it seems like this entire thing is not for heavy people like me? I'll probably try it out for the PPP

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Casper mattress 22 Apr 2014 21:49 #7

Hi froendarkness,

Thanks for posting the density of their polyfoam base layer.

I agree that if you are in higher weight ranges with a 3" comfort layer that you could sink into the mattress more deeply and the density/quality of the baser layer would be more important and it may be a good idea to look at higher quality/density base layers.

You may decide to try it anyway but even if it's a good match for you in terms of PPP then the durability of the mattress could still become an issue after your trial period was over and if it was a good match for you and decided to return it anyway it wouldn't be particularly helpful with your next choice unless the combination of materials in the comfort layers were the same.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Casper mattress 23 Apr 2014 05:03 #8

Wow... thanks for all the information.

The more I look into this product, the less interested I am in it. Of course, that still leaves me dumbfounded as to what mattress I will buy... but at least I think I've eliminated Casper. Tuft & Needle is still on my list, along with a few others. I also like the idea of a natural latex mattress, but those are above my price range.

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Casper mattress 23 Apr 2014 11:01 #9

Just to add more to the topic, I actually got one of the founders through e-mail who told me that the actual densities are:

Latex 3.3
Memory 4.0
Poly 1.8

I feel like they had to do some creative mathematics or the cloth wrap is actually fairly thick. Anyhow 1.8lbs of Poly seems like it's better.

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Casper mattress 23 Apr 2014 13:54 #10

Hi frozendarkness,

Thanks for the updated specs.

Latex 3.3
Memory 4.0
Poly 1.8


The density of the synthetic latex isn't important (density is a comfort spec with latex that varies with ILD) but the 1.8 lb polyfoam is a little higher quality for the base foam which could make some difference with higher weights that will compress the base layers more deeply.

Phoenix
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