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Casper mattress or alternatives 13 May 2014 06:38 #1

Hello,

I've looked through the thread on the Casper Mattress thread found Here

The stats on the Casper mattress according to that thread are:

1.5" of Continuous pour synthetic Latex: Density = 3.3
1.5" Memory 4.0
7" of Poly 1.8

I understand that the density of the latex is not as important, but I've been trying to decide if this is a good mattress to try or if there is something else that provides better quality materials for a bit more or even a bit less.

My wife and I are both not too heavy. I'm 5'8 and 160lb and she is...smaller and lighter by a good amount :whistle: We both sleep primarily on our sides or backs, but sometimes she will fall sleep on her stomach, thought not often.

I've looked at a ton of other mattress online based on sites recommended by Pheonix, but I'm really just overwhelmed. I'm okay with spending around $1000 for a mattress and I think I'm pretty sold on Latex for some reason. We could spend a little more if the benefit was there.

We haven't really shopped in person much, so maybe I should consider doing that, but that seems even more overwhelming to me and I hate having things "sold" to me like I experienced at the mattress store I went to. If anyone knows of a great store in the Atlanta area though I would consider going there and trusting the salesperson. I would really prefer just to order online though.

Thanks for all the great advice on this forum, especially from Pheonix. I'm rarely overwhelmed when researching a purchase, but buying a mattress is tough!

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Casper mattress or alternatives 13 May 2014 11:25 #2

Hi AndrewR,

I understand that the density of the latex is not as important, but I've been trying to decide if this is a good mattress to try or if there is something else that provides better quality materials for a bit more or even a bit less.


The choice of materials is really a personal preference so only you can decide which mattress is likely to be the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based either on your own personal testing or a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). There is no such thing as one mattress that is "ideal" for a large percentage of the population although it may be more "OK" than "ideal" for a bigger group (although still not anywhere close to the majority of people).

I think the most important question you can ask is "why" you are considering the Casper (or any mattress) and which mattresses are you comparing it to. How do you feel either "about" or "on" the specific materials that it uses. While it may not be the "best" value from a commodity point of view (the cost of the raw materials in the mattress) compared to other mattresses in the same budget range that use more costly materials ... a mattress is more than just a commodity and the value of a mattress to each person would depend on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. More than anything you may be missing the reference points from your own testing and experience that can help you decide which materials or combinations of materials you tend to prefer. Until you have some sense of what different types of materials or combinations feel like, you really won't have any way to compare mattresses or decide on which type of mattress you may prefer so you can choose between them.

I would generally suggest following the steps in the tutorial post (including some local testing so you have some familiarity with different materials) and then choosing two or three "finalists" and then making a final choice between them.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Casper mattress or alternatives 13 May 2014 12:11 #3

Phoenix wrote: Hi AndrewR,

A bunch of sage advice


Thanks Phoenix! You are correct that a mattress is more than a commodity and I have definitely read that bit of advice from you before. I did go to a Macy's and lay on every bed and also to an Ikea where I did that same thing.

From this limited experience, we definitely preferred memory foam beds over innerspring, but had trouble discerning between memory foam and latex while at IKEA, however we like the feel of both when they are firm enough to be soft, but without much of any cradling going on.

I think the problem is that, for me, it is difficult to get a good sense of a bed from laying on it for a few minutes. However, I went to these stores before reading all of the very insightful articles on this site, so I can see how another trip would be useful now that I am much more informed.

Part of the reason that I chose Casper was the generous return-policy and budget price. Most of the stores I checked into would only allow exchanges and I don't feel comfortable locking myself into one particular store when there are so many options out there. I already ordered the Casper based on the fact that we liked memory foam/latex mattresses the most and it was a simple and easy process. However, they aren't shipping until 5/23 and in the meantime I found this site and started learning a lot more.

I agree that mattresses aren't commodities, but I can't completely disregard the fact that, as an example, 100% dunlop will last longer than a synthetic latex, right?. This being true, why would I not start with, in general, the highest quality materials that I can afford? I suppose that to answer that I have to lay on a mattress with synthetic latex vs 100% Dunlop or Talalay and even further, I have to lay on mattresses with different thicknesses of each layer to decide if 1.5" of synthetic feels better than 3" of Talalay or whatever.

I guess I have to find a great mattress store in the Atlanta area if I really want to get at the bottom of things.

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Casper mattress or alternatives 13 May 2014 13:01 #4

Hi AndrewR,

I agree that mattresses aren't commodities, but I can't completely disregard the fact that, as an example, 100% dunlop will last longer than a synthetic latex, right?. This being true, why would I not start with, in general, the highest quality materials that I can afford?


When you are considering latex then you are looking at a very durable material no matter what the type or blend. While it's normally true that Dunlop that has a lower amount of natural rubber would tend to be less durable than 100% natural Dunlop ... some of the testing that Mountaintop has done on their synthetic latex (which is what is used in the Casper) is promising and indicates that it's a very durable material (although it still has a different "feel" than natural Dunlop) so I will keep an open mind to see how it plays out over the coming years. 4 lb memory foam in general will also tend to be less durable and less costly than higher density memory foam but it may also have properties that some people prefer compared to higher density memory foam (see post #9 here and post #8 here about some of the differences between different types of memory foam) so this would also be a personal preference issue.

I suppose that to answer that I have to lay on a mattress with synthetic latex vs 100% Dunlop or Talalay and even further, I have to lay on mattresses with different thicknesses of each layer to decide if 1.5" of synthetic feels better than 3" of Talalay or whatever.


These are all "preference" or "best judgement" decisions that each person needs to answer for themselves based on the parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them. While you can assess the quality of different materials based on their specs ... you can't really assess how a mattress will feel or perform to you in terms of PPP based on specs (either yours or the mattress) so when you are looking at online choices (and comparing online with online instead of online vs local) then the confidence you have that a mattress is a good match for you will depend on your local testing, your general familiarity with the overall properties of different materials (even if it's not the same design of the mattress you are considering) and your conversations with each online retailer or manufacturer. The options you have to choose between a range of mattresses or customize a mattress before and after a purchase and the exchange or return policies can also play a significant role in the "value" of your purchase as well. Don't forget that the people who don't exchange or return a mattress will be paying for the ones that do (free return policies are built into the cost of a mattress) and that return rates will generally be higher with "one size fits all" mattresses than with mattresses where you have more options available.

While there are better "value" mattresses based on the cost of the raw materials inside them in the same budget range (such as mattresses that use 8" or 9" of synthetic latex vs 1.5" of synthetic latex and 1.5" of 4 lb memory foam or latex/polyfoam hybrids that use 3" of more costly types of latex or memory foam) ... the raw material cost of a mattress isn't the most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase so only you can decide which one is the best value for you. The most important part of "value" would be PPP followed by the durability of the materials followed by the other criteria that are most important to you. I would also consider whether you are comfortable with a "one size fits all" mattress where it either works or it doesn't and where logic says that the percentage of people where a mattress is "ideal" will be much lower than marketing information may suggest. Part of this would depend on how sensitive you are to different types of materials or designs and where you are in the range between "I can sleep on anything" and "princess and the pea".

At the very least I would have one or two other finalists (even if all of them are online) where each of them would make a good choice based on your "best judgement" and then make a final choice between them. For me ... a big part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is relative to what you are comparing it to and your frame of reference.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Casper mattress or alternatives 14 May 2014 07:15 #5

Phoenix wrote: Hi AndrewR,
The most important part of "value" would be PPP followed by the durability of the materials followed by the other criteria that are most important to you. I would also consider whether you are comfortable with a "one size fits all" mattress where it either works or it doesn't and where logic says that the percentage of people where a mattress is "ideal" will be much lower than marketing information may suggest. Part of this would depend on how sensitive you are to different types of materials or designs and where you are in the range between "I can sleep on anything" and "princess and the pea".

At the very least I would have one or two other finalists (even if all of them are online) where each of them would make a good choice based on your "best judgement" and then make a final choice between them. For me ... a big part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is relative to what you are comparing it to and your frame of reference.

Phoenix


I hear what you are saying about PPP and that being more important than the durability of the materials. I guess my problem is that I have not found a mattress store in my area that has the abundance of materials in different configurations to allow me to actually try the different combinations. I am actively searching though so hopefully I will find a place sometime soon. I know that Casper mattresses are assembled in Atlanta so I would think I could find some mattress store that does local sourcing on non-major brands.

In terms of other options, I have looked at all the major online retailers that you listed in another post and narrowed down my search based on latex options, cost and return policy. There were some really compelling matrresses, but in the end I think I have to go with a hybrid based on my budget. This left me with looking at the following:

Casper - 100% refund and easy, free returns
Casper Mattress: 1.5" of Continuous pour synthetic Latex: Density = 3.3; 1.5" Memory 4.0; 7" of Poly 1.8

Brooklyn Bedding - Both mattresses have a $200 flat fee for returns
1. Cotton Camilla: 1" Soft Reflex Foam, 3" of Talalay Latex, and a 6" 1.5 LB HD Foam Core
OR
2. Tri Comfort Latex: Cotton Knitted Cover, 1" BreathCool Poly Foam, (2) 4" layers of Tri-Zone Convoluted Dunlop

Dream Foam - No returns as far as I can tell
Ultimate Dreams Natural Latex Mattress - These specs are pretty well known here and I do believe that started using a 1.5lb base foam

Ikea latex mattresses - These were so broken in at the store that even the firmest models felt ridiculously soft so I have no idea. I'm not sure of their makeup either, but I imagine they are some of the lower quality materials.

These are the three I'm looking at most closely and it really comes down toCasper or Brooklyn Bedding since I think DreamFoam is owned by them or something?? Are there any other companies I should look at offering latex or hybrid latex mattresses in the $800-1000 range that have great return policies? I've gone through a ton of links that you offered up on this site so I feel like I'm checked out most options.

I know that none of my choices have any obvious weak points so that it will all come down to feel, but until I find a store that will allow me to actually feel each material for myself (I don't know if I will be able to) I have to make a decision sort of in the blind and I know that is never ideal.

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Last edit: by AndrewR.

Casper mattress or alternatives 14 May 2014 09:33 #6

Hi AndrewR,

I hear what you are saying about PPP and that being more important than the durability of the materials. I guess my problem is that I have not found a mattress store in my area that has the abundance of materials in different configurations to allow me to actually try the different combinations. I am actively searching though so hopefully I will find a place sometime soon. I know that Casper mattresses are assembled in Atlanta so I would think I could find some mattress store that does local sourcing on non-major brands.


It's unlikely that you will find the same combination of materials locally with the same layer thickness and firmness levels so you would probably need to try the materials individually and then try and "imagine" what they would feel like together. The Ikea Myrbacka mattress uses a thicker layer (from the picture here it looks like it's over 5") of the same synthetic latex over a thinner polyfoam base (although it has a quilted cover which will have some affect on the "feel" of the latex) and there are many memory foam mattresses that use 4 lb memory foam in relatively thin layers.

These are the three I'm looking at most closely and it really comes down toCasper or Brooklyn Bedding since I think DreamFoam is owned by them or something??


Yes ... Dreamfoam and Brooklyn Bedding are sister companies with common ownership (see post #3 here ).

The Dreamfoam Eurotop may also be worth considering and is in the same budget range. It has a 3" Talalay latex comfort layer with a quilted cover and an 8" 1.5 lb polyfoam base layer. It allows you to choose the firmness/softness of the Talalay latex comfort layer when you purchase it and for a small cost you can exchange it for a different firmness level after a purchase as well. Talalay latex is a more costly material than either 4 lb memory foam or synthetic latex but of course a Talalay latex comfort layer will have a different feel than a combination of 4 lb memory foam and synthetic latex so this would be a preference choice.


Some of the other lower budget latex or latex hybrid options are in posts #3 and #4 here but none of these include memory foam if that is important to you and you would also need to decide on the importance of being able to customize a purchase vs a local purchase that you can test in person vs an exchange policy vs a return policy and the costs involved in all of these.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Phoenix.
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