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27 Feb 2015 17:28 #41 by Phoenix
Hi sangen,

My husband expressed a few concerns. About 5 years ago I bought a “natural” latex mattress from IKEA that was actually about 85% natural/15% synthetic. It was very smelly. Even though it felt decent at first, after a while it was like sleeping on a rock--we woke up with numb hips and arms. So I returned it in exchange for credit at the store. My husband wondered if this bad experience with latex might be repeated with the Landon. For starters, Lance said that his mattresses aren’t stinky. IKEA’s mattress may have been stinky due to the 15% synthetic content. In addition, the IKEA latex was rated firm. Lance said that for someone my size even a medium firm would likely be too firm.


I would agree with Lance's comments on both counts (the firmness and the smell) and based on the online description (and on your testing as well) the Landon would be a fair bit softer than the Ikea Edsele. As he mentioned you would also have options to make comfort/support changes if that turns out to be necessary.

It sounds to me like you have done some good research and testing and made a good choice ... and congratulations on your new mattress :)

I'm looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it.

Phoenix

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07 Mar 2015 18:51 - 07 Mar 2015 19:09 #42 by 1whitehorse1
Hi Phoenix,

You probably remember me from my earlier posts on the 'memory foam mattress topper made me sick'. Long story short, I threw out the topper, was refunded by the company, and I am now sleeping on the living room couch (and I am not talking a sofa bed...I am talking literally, the couch). It's downright terrible, however, not as terrible as sleeping on the godawful Sealy mattress I had bought, to replace another mattress I'd bought prior to that, prior to doing a comfort exchange, all through Sleep Country...how I hate the mere sight of their stores. (edit: btw, when I was at sleep country on one of my last trips, I actually experienced seeing and hearing the sales people, of which there were about 4 because it was a busy weekend, they literally were fighting over customers: "I was speaking to that couple first so I'm closing that sale" - that kind of deal, and then they'd quickly switch back to being fake-nice and sales-y to the people in the store. Yuck.)

Allow me to elaborate - my dissatisfaction with the Sealy stems from the fact that initially, I had owned a Sealy, which I loved, until I moved in with my boyfriend and we bought a king size Sealy. Both were soft, plush foam-topped inner springs. However, the king size innerspring Sealy had a defect - it seems as though the mattress's denser, 'inner support core' had been installed vertically, instead of horizontally, and this caused both of us to roll into our own respective little 'valleys' with no lower back support. (Compared to sleeping on the couch, this was great, in retrospect.) But at the time, this was a concern. So I called for an inspector, who said he didn't notice enough 'sag' (has to be at least something like 2 inches of visible sag). I told him if I can feel it, can't he? Well, that drove him to his default reaction of saying he'll just say that it is making 'noise', as he pushed vigorously into to the mattress to fabricate evidence for his white lie which he then submitted for my exchange.

I went back to the store with my boyfriend, not satisfied with my 'valley' mattress, and we settled on a king size Simmons innerspring with memory foam top. It was their top of the line, which they said was in a lot of hotels. My boyfriend liked it, and I liked it enough to agree. Two weeks later of sleeping on it, I was waking up with pinched shoulders and pinched hips, and it started to hurt. It seems this memory foam had lost it's memory, and didn't exactly spring back into its original shape. So I marched back to Sleep country and said I want to do a comfort exchange, but of course, that option was exhausted since that mattress had been in exchange of the previous King Sealy. So I thought I had no other choice but to start from scratch...once again at sleep country. How wrong I was to do that. So counting, I'd already bought a King Sealy, and also paid the balance for the upgraded exchange for the Simmons.

Next to defeated, I went back several times and decided to give my boyfriend the Twin XL version of his Simmons, and I would pick the updated version of the Sealy in Twin XL that I had exchanged in the first place (ironic, no?) I tried all the mattresses again, and between another 'soft' Simmons and the newer version of the Sealy, I picked the Sealy. EXCEPT this time, I was dealing with apples and oranges, but I didn't know that until I received the mattress. The sales person had mentioned in the store that the new version of the same Sealy now had no innerspring coils - it was layered foam throughout. He said this increased the durability of the product. I thought that if what I felt in the store was what I would feel at home, that I had made a good choice. Unfortunately for me, this was not the case. The Twin XL Sealy that arrived was HARD AS A ROCK. Nothing compared to the softness of the King size Sealy in the showroom. Talk about a misleading 'show room feel'!!! I went back and complained, and their only excuse was that the density was increased since it was a smaller cut of foam in the Twin XL versus the King. I call BS on that one. They suggested a foam topper. That's when I knew I was in a catch 22 situation of the largest kind. So counting, add the two new Twin XL mattresses to my bed budget. That's close to $8,000 CAD. I shudder to think about this. I am not a wealthy person by any means! I take public transit to work for goodness sakes. (edit: I also learned that Sleep Country was the only retailer who manufactured the Sealy with all-foam interior - other retailers were not, apparently. Not sure why. The foam is possibly cheaper to produce and install, and has less chance of the sagging of innerspring, I am guessing. Although I found it really does not add to the comfort. It's like saying a brick is now more comfortable than a steel scrubbing pad when you throw some plush foam over it...I feel that the quality of foam they are replacing the springs with is much less responsive to the body, and therefore, much less comfortable, and clearly, the outcome of the 'feel' cannot be predicted in their manufacturing process from the smaller to the larger sizes, and varies GREATLY from small to large).

Anyways, completely traumatized by this, I thought, well heck, I need to stop throwing money at this mattress situation, because my boyfriend will label me insane. So I bought a foam mattress topper on amazon.com based on a recommendation from a friend. Well, I bought the 3 inch and then the 2 inch. Neither ameliorated the situation. I was waking up stiff, sore, and contorted. After 4 months of that, I decided, this is not working. I tossed these mattress toppers and decided, I'm sleeping on the couch, dammit. So that is where I have been for 5 months now, and I have developed chronic lower back/hip/leg pain as a result. It is present from morning till night. It hurts to sit now as I type. I don't think it is wise to damage my body for the sake of avoiding another mattress shenanigan, but this is where I am now.

I visited Soma mattresses twice. I thought one of the plusher Green Sleep mattresses were lovely (the one with the dunlop core, and the softer talalay 'pillow top'), and then I tried the Acadia 4.0 from Obasan...and I nearly barfed when I saw the price for a King, lol. So here I am, knowing full well that I can only sleep on the best of the best, the softest of the softest latex foam mattresses. Add to the fact that I have been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism / Grave's disease (doctor is still hoping that this is a glitch from taking too many ill-prescribed iodine supplements and that my levels will go back to normal) which is a type of autoimmune reaction, meaning I am probably sensitive to chemicals and bad stuff in mattresses at this point.

I briefly considered going to Essentia because I know that their mattresses are super comfortable, but then I re-read all your mattress forum threads on this company and I quickly remembered why I didn't check them out the first time. I hate being 'taken' for my money by marketing, so I would hesitate to consider them, especially when I want a product that will not harm my spine/hips, AND will not harm my autoimmune system.

@Phoenix - I haven't visited Dormio yet, and I am wondering, could you suggest any mattresses from Dormio that are the equivalent or similar to the Acadia 4.0 by Obasan? I know that Obasan is high quality organic latex foam. And the Acadia 4.0 seemed, if I remember correctly, that I would find it comfortable and supportive, given my side-sleeping, and my current hip/lower back chronic pain issues from the couch sleeping.

I think I will have to bite the bullet on the price, once again, but I suspect that i will be happier with my purchase, health wise and comfort wise if I choose correctly between Dormio or Soma (Obasan / Green Sleep).

Thanks for reading.
Last edit: 07 Mar 2015 19:09 by 1whitehorse1.

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07 Mar 2015 20:36 - 07 Mar 2015 20:47 #43 by Phoenix
Hi 1whithorse1,

You probably remember me from my earlier posts on the 'memory foam mattress topper made me sick'.


I remember ... and you've certainly had your share of difficult experiences.

You may have read this already but just in case Post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to have more information about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how safe is safe enough for me" so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable with having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, and lifestyle choices. Latex can certainly be a good choice for people that are very sensitive.

I would also make sure that you've read the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices ... and most importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones that you purchased.

Two of the more important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to buy a suitable mattress that is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability, durability, and value.

@Phoenix - I haven't visited Dormio yet, and I am wondering, could you suggest any mattresses from Dormio that are the equivalent or similar to the Acadia 4.0 by Obasan? I know that Obasan is high quality organic latex foam. And the Acadia 4.0 seemed, if I remember correctly, that I would find it comfortable and supportive, given my side-sleeping, and my current hip/lower back chronic pain issues from the couch sleeping.


There is more about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one in post #9 here but unless the type and blend of latex and all the layer thicknesses and firmness levels are the same in both mattresses and they both have a very similar cover then the only reliable way to know how one mattress would compare to another one would be based on your own side by side testing (with either no or very little time in between because our memories for something as subjective as firmness or the "feel" of a mattress isn't very long lasting). Even smaller differences between two mattresses can make a surprisingly big difference for some people and when you have two mattresses that use different materials or designs (or the types and blends of latex are different) it's really not possible to know how they will compare for you unless you compare them in person.

I don't know the detailed specifics of the mattresses that Dormio carries but if you know all the specs of the Acadia 4.0 that you tested (including the ILD of the layers and zones that you tested) then Dormio would be your best source of guidance about which of their mattresses would be the closest approximation based on specs because they will be much more familiar with their mattresses than I am.

I would also be very cautious though about using another mattress as your "target" because it may not be the best possible match for you in the first place (and you could end up excluding another mattress that may be different but could be a better choice in terms of PPP) and because human memory for softness, firmness, and "feel" is very unreliable and a mattress that may feel similar to what you "remember" another mattress feels like may end up being very different. I would rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria (rather than against another mattress) using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and based on which one is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 07 Mar 2015 20:47 by Phoenix.

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19 May 2015 06:43 #44 by sangen
Hi Phoenix,

My new mattress, the Landon from Dormio, was delivered three weeks ago. It has 3" of medium, 3" of soft and 2" of extra soft latex, topped by 1" of wool. It is quite pleasing in several ways. It supports me well so I feel less stiff in the morning. It smells nice! No weird odors, no unpleasant VOCs. It does have an odor, but it is natural. It has a very good kushy feel to it. I like the way the latex has a "lively" sort of surface. I have only one complaint, which I will call Dormio about today. After lying down a while I develop a mild pressure point on my hips and bum. I sleep on my sides and back. I get the pressure point more often when I sleep on my back. This puzzles me, since the mattress seems so soft to the touch. Could it be that it is too soft and my bum is sinking too far? I don't know, but hopefully we can make some adjustments. Any suggestions or thoughts?

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19 May 2015 11:26 - 19 May 2015 11:28 #45 by Phoenix
Hi sangen,

I sleep on my sides and back. I get the pressure point more often when I sleep on my back. This puzzles me, since the mattress seems so soft to the touch. Could it be that it is too soft and my bum is sinking too far? I don't know, but hopefully we can make some adjustments. Any suggestions or thoughts?


Unfortunately I can't feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress and I don't have enough information or reference points to make any specific suggestions but post #2 here has more information about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the more likely reasons for them that may help you identify the most likely cause of the pain you are experiencing and whether it may be coming from a mattress that is too soft (which would generally indicate an alignment issue) or a mattress that is too firm (which generally indicates a pressure issue but can also cause some alignment issues as well).

While I'm not familiar with your mattress ... based on the description it appears to be in a fairly soft range which may "point to" a mattress that is too soft for you which in turn would point to an alignment issue in either your spine or joints that could be causing your pain.

Once you have familiarized yourself with the possible cause or causes of your pain ... your best source of guidance about any changes that may be worth considering or that are available to you would be a more detailed conversation with Dormio who are very knowledgeable and will know more about their mattresses and the options they have available to fine tune the support or comfort of the mattress than anyone else and they also have the benefit of their experience and feedback from many other customers that have purchased the same mattress that may have had similar issues to you that they can draw from as well to make some suggestions that may be helpful.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 19 May 2015 11:28 by Phoenix.

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10 Sep 2015 07:26 #46 by DHC
Hello all,

So I thought I'd post here given all the expert advice. It's quite amazing really. For the first in my life in my mid 30 I'm trying to locate and purchase the right bed for me. This is because I just learned that I have multiple herniations and/or bulges in my spine, lumbar, thoracic and cervical. I've never had anything but lo grade futons and coil mattresses. But this past summer I slept on a non-coil, organic mattress that cost at least two to three times any mattress I've ever purchased. It was a sublet and I'm trying to locate the precise mattress, to try it again and see how much it costs. I believe it was an Ottawa based company, and I believe it was Obasan. The other day I went to Sleep Country in Etobicoke and tried this bed: www.sleepcountry.ca/products/tabid/131/p...e/en-us/default.aspx . It was excellent too. I'm heavier and taller, larger basically, and am looking for a firm bed. Apparently they have two, with one having a cushion top and being softer, not the one I tried. I need it quite firm. I weigh almost 200 lbs, and am almost 6 ft. The deal I got from the Sleep Country salesman was down a few hundred to around $1500 or 1600, and with a box and frame and taxes in for just over $2000. I really don't know how the long term life of this bed would be, but it's significantly more than I'm used to spending on a bed. I just want something good that would last, and I don't mind paying what's needed, if I can manage to find it. I have no idea about the Obasan beds and how much they'd cost. I'm thinking of trying out a few more places.

It goes without saying that I'd be grateful for any and all advice. I put a refundable hold on the Natura bed for that price for 3 weeks, and I plan to check out some more in the next few days.

Thank you in advance,
David

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10 Sep 2015 14:09 - 05 Oct 2015 18:20 #47 by Phoenix
Hi DHC,

It goes without saying that I'd be grateful for any and all advice. I put a refundable hold on the Natura bed for that price for 3 weeks, and I plan to check out some more in the next few days.


I'm assuming that you've read the mattress shopping tutorial here (which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice) but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for when you sleep on it in "real life" and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability and PPP (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

Outside of PPP ... the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would affect the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If you can find out and list the specifications of the mattress on the forum I'd certainly be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials in the mattress and the mattress "as a whole".

The Natura Circadian is a latex polyfoam hybrid but they don't specify the type and blend of the latex or the thickness of the latex layers or the thickness and density of the polyfoam support core in the mattress description. There is also more about the pros and cons of a latex/polyfoam hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here . Natura in general uses good quality materials in their mattresses and in most cases don't have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design but once you find out about the specifics of the layers I would make some careful value comparisons with other similar mattresses that are available either locally in Toronto or online because they may be in a higher budget range than other similar mattresses.

You've probably seen this but the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Greater Toronto area (subject to making sure that any mattresses you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier in this reply) are listed in post #1 here (which is the first post in the topic we are posting in).

While it's not a complete list ... some of the better online options I'm aware of that ship across Canada are also listed in post #21 here as well.

I believe it was an Ottawa based company, and I believe it was Obasan.


Obasan is a brand name for SleepTek (you can see their website here ) and they also make some very high quality "all latex" mattresses although they are in a higher budget range than the latex/polyfoam hybrid you are looking at. They also have a dealer list here if you are interested in testing some of their mattresses locally.

I really don't know how the long term life of this bed would be, but it's significantly more than I'm used to spending on a bed. I just want something good that would last, and I don't mind paying what's needed, if I can manage to find it.


Outside of the quality/durability guidelines I linked earlier ... there is more detailed information about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here .

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding ... and of course any other comments or questions you may have along the way.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 05 Oct 2015 18:20 by Phoenix.

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14 Sep 2015 20:10 #48 by DHC
Hi Phoenix,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write and for all this helpful information. I hadn't read your tutorial, being new here and only seeing this thread to which I responded. Basically, we just moved back to Toronto, so busy with the move, family, new job, etc., and so I have little time for much, including sleep. But I need a good bed given my health issues. I did manage to get another $100 off the Natura mattress, down to something like $1450. I'm also trying to find out the specifics of the Natura Circadian Sleep Country is selling, and will post that as soon as I have it. I've starting reading through the tutorial. With everything going on, absorbing new information or even finding to read outside of work is proving difficult, but I'll make the time. Anyway, as soon as I know more about the Natura specs, I'll post that. I also found out that the bed I slept on in the summer at the sublet location (for 3 months) that was quite good was specifically this sleeptek.ca/products/classic-2000 . But the price I was quoted by an organic store in Toronto was quite a bit higher than the Natura one, the latter being about $1950 everything in (mattress, base, frame and taxes) and the Classic 2000 being $3000 for the foundation and mattress. Not sure what you think of those two aside by side, but I'll post the specs asap. The $1k difference is substantial though.

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14 Sep 2015 20:51 #49 by DHC
I should add that I'm a side sleeper searching for a firm bed, which is apparently strange? I used to sleep on my side toward my stomach more so really, but the herniations require that I sleep in a fetal position basically. I'm been told all this is relevant for purchasing a mattress, though you would know this better.

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14 Sep 2015 23:37 #50 by Phoenix
Hi DHC,

I also found out that the bed I slept on in the summer at the sublet location (for 3 months) that was quite good was specifically this sleeptek.ca/products/classic-2000. But the price I was quoted by an organic store in Toronto was quite a bit higher than the Natura one, the latter being about $1950 everything in (mattress, base, frame and taxes) and the Classic 2000 being $3000 for the foundation and mattress. Not sure what you think of those two aside by side, but I'll post the specs asap. The $1k difference is substantial though.


When you are comparing mattresses I would make mattress only to mattress only comparisons so that any difference in the price of the foundation doesn't affect your comparisons because you can use any suitable foundation under a mattress.

The Classic 200o is also an all latex mattress and uses more costly materials than a latex/polyfoam hybrid that only uses latex in the comfort layers (latex is much more costly than polyfoam). It also uses certified organic latex which is also more costly than many other types and blends of latex. There is more about latex/polyfoam hybrid mattresses vs all latex mattresses in post #2 here and there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here .

I used to sleep on my side toward my stomach more so really, but the herniations require that I sleep in a fetal position basically. I'm been told all this is relevant for purchasing a mattress, though you would know this better.


The first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can't test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

Phoenix

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