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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 25 Sep 2014 18:48 #1

After doing lots of reading here, I'm just about ready to buy. I think.

I've tried memory foam at stores locally and I didn't particularly like it. (Although, to be fair, I'm moving from a 10 y/o serta innerspring so even memory foam is a good step up and I'm sure that I would find it an improvement.)

So latex it is. I've narrowed my choices down a bit to 5 models from 3 brands.

My father moved in with me a couple of years ago forcing my computer and audio into the bedroom with me. I'm single so I love the idea of gaining 13" of space by downsizing from full, along with the accompanying lower prices. However, after doing some close reading that knocked a couple of companies out of contention. Arizona, a company I had shortlisted, bounced out because their twins do not have layers; just a single slab. That sorta defeats the entire idea of 'layer exchange".

I've not had the opportunity to spend time on a mattress with more than 1" of latex. Which means none essentially. So my list is narrowed to those with money back and layer exchanges just for insurance. (I have zero problem with internet purchasing; great idea and happy to see it occurring in places one wouldn't think it could.)

I'm 6", 235 with the excess mostly in the middle but I do have wide shoulders. Sleep alone. Predominantly left side sleeper but will occasionally roll over the right side. Never stomach or back.

The mattress:

(Foamorder didn't make it to the sem-finals because they sell used mattresses. I agree with the mattress to go fella who says that that should be discouraged.)

The middle 3 in price but top 3 on my list.

SleepEZ 7000. Two layers. Choice of dunllop or talalay. Cotton and wool cover. 90 day money back. Layer exchange

SleepEZ 8" natural dumlop. 2x 3" dunlop +2" Talalay + cotton zipper cover. 90 day money back and a layer exchange (maybe, it's only mentioned once and not in the 'features' list.

Flexuscomfort 7" latex. 2 layer dunlop. Cotton/wool cover. 90 day money back and layer exchange.

All 3 of those are basically the same price: 712, 750, and 750.

low outliers:

Spindle 7". 2 layers, cotton/wool. 365 day layer exchange at $150. $595 Zoned

SleepEZ roma. 9" two layer dunlop (assumed glued together since no layer exchange). $495

Brooklyn Bedding 9" plush 2x 4" dunlop + 1" polyfoam. 120 day trial and layer exchange (for $75) $595

high outliers:

Spindle 10". 3 layers. etc etc etc $899 zoned

SleepEZ 9000. 9", 3 layers, etc etc $950

Flexuscomfort 9" natural. 2x 3" dunlop + 2" talaly. $950


Price is not part of the equation per se. If I KNEW I was going to 'totally love' the thing, I'd move up. That is certainly my eventual goal if it becomes worthy. I have plenty of nephews and nieces who would snatch this one. :P

The 3 low price are ones that I could take a chance on, work through the layer exchange, or buy a raw slab for a topper or base. These are the 'pessimistic' choices.

The 3 higher price I would consider depending upon any replies to my assumption set.

My assumptions/questions etc.

1. Reading here, it seems more people who are unhappy find their latex purchase a little too firm rather than a little soft. I have every intention of trusting the customer rep who sells me the product. They know their own best. However, if this assumption is true, I'd be sure to mention it to the rep for their advice.

2. You can't compare these things qualitatively which I fully understand. However, numbers help. For example the SleepEZ 8" uses the phrase "lesser density" without description. Is there a nice little chart somewhere around here that shows densities that these companies use?

3. Since I'm heavier I should have higher density, no? Is that affected in any way by the fact that it's a twin size and sleep alone? (well, alone ~9 months of the year; December - Feb the dog tends to hop up and worm his way under the covers.)

4. Again due to my weight, 3 layers is likely to be 'better' for me as opposed to 2? More configurable to find the best match from that particular mattress.

5. Celsion. Just ran across that earlier today. It intrigues me because I have full thickness burn scarring over 40%. That's a lot of missing sweat glands, so anything that helps with that would be worth looking into.


The platform bed: Basically making one. I have an adjustable frame on casters in the shed. I dug it out, put 2x4 standing vertically lengthwise in the rails and bolted to them. I have sufficient 1x6 and 1x4 slats (cut to 39"), with screws that will becountersunk into the 2x4s at 2.5" gaps. If they bow at all once I get them on, I have 2x6 that I can run lengthwise, screw the slats to it, and put a middle leg on it, just a hair shorter than the casters. That way I can still roll it if needed, but will have the center support. To me that sounds like a bit of overkill for a twin, but that's why you ask other people....

Side panels. Not planning on using any. However, I understand that these mattresses have no edge support so if needed, I can install some. That's the reason for the 2x4 sitting on the iron rails; gives me something to bite into if I do decide to put sides on at a later date.

Thanks, I know this meets the TL:DNR criteria. All comments and adjustments to my assumptions are welcomed.

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Last edit: by gnaw. Reason: spelling error in title

Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 25 Sep 2014 19:56 #2

Hi gnaw,

Arizona, a company I had shortlisted, bounced out because their twins do not have layers; just a single slab. That sorta defeats the entire idea of 'layer exchange".


I'm not clear on what you mean here but if you mean Arizona Premium Mattress' Adjustable Ultra Plush their twin size mattresses have the same multiple layers as their larger sizes see here and they also do custom layering. The layering of all their mattresses would be the same for twin sizes as they would for the larger sizes.

The middle 3 in price but top 3 on my list.

SleepEZ 7000. Two layers. Choice of dunllop or talalay. Cotton and wool cover. 90 day money back. Layer exchange

SleepEZ 8" natural dumlop. 2x 3" dunlop +2" Talalay + cotton zipper cover. 90 day money back and a layer exchange (maybe, it's only mentioned once and not in the 'features' list.

Flexuscomfort 7" latex. 2 layer dunlop. Cotton/wool cover. 90 day money back and layer exchange.

All 3 of those are basically the same price: 712, 750, and 750.


These are all great quality/value choices and assuming that the one you choose would be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then there are no weak links in any of them in terms of quality and durability. Of course if you can't test a mattress in person then I would make sure that you have a more detailed conversation with any online manufacturer you are considering so that they can "talk you through" the options they have available so you have some confidence that your initial choices would be "in the range" of a mattress that would be suitable for you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). The SleepEZ 8" special does allow for layer exchanges.

Spindle 7". 2 layers, cotton/wool. 365 day layer exchange at $150. $595 Zoned

SleepEZ roma. 9" two layer dunlop (assumed glued together since no layer exchange). $495

Brooklyn Bedding 9" plush 2x 4" dunlop + 1" polyfoam. 120 day trial and layer exchange (for $75) $595

high outliers:

Spindle 10". 3 layers. etc etc etc $899 zoned

SleepEZ 9000. 9", 3 layers, etc etc $950

Flexuscomfort 9" natural. 2x 3" dunlop + 2" talaly. $950


Again ... I would make sure that you have a more detailed conversation with any of these that you are seriously considering so that you are comfortable that they will also be "in the range" of a mattress that is suitable for you but all of these also use high quality materials and none of them have any weak links in their design either.

When you are considering many options I would start by narrowing down your options to only one with each manufacturer or retailer you are considering based on more detailed conversations with each of them and then you can compare all the pros and cons of your finalists to each other after that. Post #13 here also includes more information about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between your final choices .

1. Reading here, it seems more people who are unhappy find their latex purchase a little too firm rather than a little soft. I have every intention of trusting the customer rep who sells me the product. They know their own best. However, if this assumption is true, I'd be sure to mention it to the rep for their advice.


I would think that this is probably true "on average" for those that didn't make the most suitable choice with their initial layers (which in itself would be a minority) but it certainly isn't the rule because there are also some who choose a latex mattress that is too soft. This would be less likely with an online purchase where the softest versions of latex aren't as common because most online manufacturers are aware of the risks of making a choice that is too soft. Latex is different from other types of foam materials and has an unusual combination of softness and contouring when it's initially compressed and support as you sink into it more deeply so there are certainly people where this can "translate" into a mattress that feels firmer initially than they expected (if they are used to polyfoam) at least until they adjust to a different type of mattress.

2. You can't compare these things qualitatively which I fully understand. However, numbers help. For example the SleepEZ 8" uses the phrase "lesser density" without description. Is there a nice little chart somewhere around here that shows densities that these companies use?


I would suggest avoiding using specs to compare mattresses or different types of latex unless you have specific reference points that you have tested locally with similar mattresses that use the same type of latex as you are considering because they can mislead you more than help you. For example different types of latex (that use a different method of production or have a different blend of synthetic and natural rubber) will have a different density for the same firmness level. Another example is that ILD is not a good way to compare the firmness of different types of latex because ILD ratings can vary between different types and blends of latex and a layer that has a certain ILD may feel softer or firmer than another layer of the same thickness that is a different type of latex and has the same ILD (see post #6 here ). There are also several specs that can affect how soft or firm a mattress or a layer feels for any particular person (see post #4 here ). Trying to use specs such as ILD alone to choose a mattress can be very misleading and trying to piece together all the possible variables without having personal experience with how they actually "feel" in real life can be very confusing and lead to "information overwhelm" or "paralysis by analysis".

3. Since I'm heavier I should have higher density, no? Is that affected in any way by the fact that it's a twin size and sleep alone? (well, alone ~9 months of the year; December - Feb the dog tends to hop up and worm his way under the covers.)

4. Again due to my weight, 3 layers is likely to be 'better' for me as opposed to 2? More configurable to find the best match from that particular mattress.


Whether you need higher density in any particular layer would depend on which type of latex you are considering and on the overall configuration and design of the mattress. I would keep in mind that density is a "comfort spec" with latex and not a "quality spec". I would avoid trying to design your mattress ahead of time and work with each manufacturer so they can "talk you through" the options they have available and help you decide which of their options would have the best chance of being a good match for you in terms that will make much more sense to you than overly technical information that can have little practical benefit.

Post #3 here has more information that may be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges and who may benefit from thicker mattresses or more layers but you are not in a particularly heavy weight range. In general terms though I would tend to work with those that already know what you would otherwise need to learn because "finding an expert" is much easier than going through the time and the learning curve that it would take to become one :)

5. Celsion. Just ran across that earlier today. It intrigues me because I have full thickness burn scarring over 40%. That's a lot of missing sweat glands, so anything that helps with that would be worth looking into.


Celsion is now called Talalay GL but it's the same material. It can have a "slight" effect on temperature regulation compared to "regular" Talalay latex which is already among the most breathable of all the foam materials (see post #5 here ). There is also more about all the variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress in post #2 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 13:37 #3

"information overwhelm" or "paralysis by analysis"

I definitely have symptoms of both of those. Thanks for the lengthy reply. And for puncturing my assumptions. Being too wary I guess

Ref: Arizona plush - "Each king, queen or full mattress consists of 2 pieces of latex. The 2" Talalay latex topper is super soft (#22 ILD) and lays over the 6 inch Talalay core of your choice (soft, medium or firm). Twin and Twin XL are one piece only."
www.mattresses.net/twin-adjustable-ultra-plush-latex-sleep-system.html

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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 13:44 #4

gnaw wrote: The platform bed: Basically making one. I have an adjustable frame on casters in the shed. I dug it out, put 2x4 standing vertically lengthwise in the rails and bolted to them. I have sufficient 1x6 and 1x4 slats (cut to 39"), with screws that will becountersunk into the 2x4s at 2.5" gaps. If they bow at all once I get them on, I have 2x6 that I can run lengthwise, screw the slats to it, and put a middle leg on it, just a hair shorter than the casters. That way I can still roll it if needed, but will have the center support. To me that sounds like a bit of overkill for a twin, but that's why you ask other people....

Side panels. Not planning on using any. However, I understand that these mattresses have no edge support so if needed, I can install some. That's the reason for the 2x4 sitting on the iron rails; gives me something to bite into if I do decide to put sides on at a later date.


Forgot the questions for that:

Is it okay to have 1x6 and 1x4 both? I had 5 of each 42" long left over from a previous project. If is is not ok, I can go to the lumber yard.

I'm countersinking the screwheads and slightly rounded the edges of the slats. Is that enough to not damage the mattress cover?

With a twin, do I really need the center joist? I've got it, but it seems a bit overkill to me.

Is there a functional use for side panels? I have some cedar logs that I could rip and attach. They'd look gorgeous, but that's a fair bit of work when I'm not certain I even want them.

Thanks again folks.

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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 14:20 #5

Hi gnaw,

Ref: Arizona plush - "Each king, queen or full mattress consists of 2 pieces of latex. The 2" Talalay latex topper is super soft (#22 ILD) and lays over the 6 inch Talalay core of your choice (soft, medium or firm). Twin and Twin XL are one piece only."
www.mattresses.net/twin-adjustable-ultra...ex-sleep-system.html


I think you may be misunderstanding what they mean. What this means is that the 6" support core (the bottom layer) in a twin size is a single piece of latex while the larger sizes are two pieces of 6" latex that sit side by side in the mattress (and can be chosen in different firmness levels for those that wish to have a different firmness levels on each side of their mattress). All of them have the same separate latex comfort layer on top of them. There would be no point in having a side to side split in the support core for a twin size mattress because it's too small.

Phoenix
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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 16:04 #6

Well, just got off the phone with Flexus. They told me to come here and ask your opinion. :D

He says that with my weight (220) I'm going to bottom out on the 9" and is telling me I need the 10".

They put their mattresses on sale about an hour ago, so the 9" is $850 and $950 for 10".

While I am really hoping to stay under 800 for a first time purchase, I'm very aware from buying tools that the most expensive choice is the the one that's just good enough for now. Their sale price put the 9" into serious consideration anyway. And I said I was going to trust the reps to know their products limitations.

Now if SleepEZ would just answer their gd phones. If I'm going to give serious thought to the Flexus 10, that puts SleepEZ's 9000 firmly on the table at 902.50 with their 10000 at 997.50 the high outlier.

I've eliminated BB, Spindle, and Arizona simply because SleepEZ and Flexus seem to have the best layer exchange and return policies.

Thoughts?

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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 16:28 #7

Jeremy from SleepEZ returned my call. Talked to him for 15 minutes or so and pulled the trigger on the 8" latex.

Medium talalay
medium dunlop
extra firm dunlop

Theoretically it ships on Monday.

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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 16:54 #8

Hi gnaw,

With a twin, do I really need the center joist? I've got it, but it seems a bit overkill to me.


You won't need center support for a twin size because the span is narrow enough to prevent significant flexing. I would use center support for queen and king sizes and with full size for heavier weights or more flexible wood.

Is it okay to have 1x6 and 1x4 both? I had 5 of each 42" long left over from a previous project. If is is not ok, I can go to the lumber yard.


No ... it will be fine. I would tend to use the 1x6's in the center under the heavier part of your body.

I'm countersinking the screwheads and slightly rounded the edges of the slats. Is that enough to not damage the mattress cover?


I would think so yes.

Is there a functional use for side panels? I have some cedar logs that I could rip and attach. They'd look gorgeous, but that's a fair bit of work when I'm not certain I even want them.


I'm understanding you correctly and you mean putting side panels on the vertical 2x4's then they would only be cosmetic and since they would be under the mattress and the foundation would already be "stiff" and non flexing they wouldn't have any effect on the edge support of your mattress.

Well, just got off the phone with Flexus. They told me to come here and ask your opinion. :D

He says that with my weight (220) I'm going to bottom out on the 9" and is telling me I need the 10".

They put their mattresses on sale about an hour ago, so the 9" is $850 and $950 for 10".


I don't think that he meant that you would bottom out on the whole mattress (it would be unlikely that 8" of latex would be close to its maximum compression with your weight) but that the 2" comfort layer may not be thick enough to isolate you from the firmness of the layers below it and may feel too firm for you and that you may need some additional thickness in the top layer ... particularly for side sleeping.

In any case ... they would know much more about their own mattresses than I do and which of their options would have the best chance of success for different body types and sleeping styles based on the "averages" of their customers and a more detailed conversation so if you can't test a mattress in person I would tend to follow the guidance of the manufacturer themselves.

Thoughts?


Both mattresses are very similar and both use high quality materials so there would be no "weak links" in either of them in terms of durability. When you are down to finalists that fit all your criteria and are choices between "good and good", you are confident that either one will be a good match for you in terms of PPP (or you are happy with the options you have to rearrange or exchange layers if they aren't) and there are no clear winners between them, then a final choice will be a matter of "best judgement" based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (see post #2 here ). I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from either of them.

Phoenix
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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 17:26 #9

Phoenix wrote: Hi gnaw,

Is there a functional use for side panels? I have some cedar logs that I could rip and attach. They'd look gorgeous, but that's a fair bit of work when I'm not certain I even want them.


I'm understanding you correctly and you mean putting side panels on the vertical 2x4's then they would only be cosmetic and since they would be under the mattress and the foundation would already be "stiff" and non flexing they wouldn't have any effect on the edge support of your mattress.


No, I mean something like this:



or

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Checking my assumptions before purchase. TWIN Latex mattress, slat platform bed, and pad/cover 26 Sep 2014 17:52 #10

Hi gnaw,

OK ... I understand what you meant now.

The main benefits would be to prevent any sliding of the mattress (which probably wouldn't be an issue anyway).

Depending on the depth of the recess it may have some minimal effect on edge support while you are sleeping (it could prevent any bulging of the sides) but this probably also wouldn't make much difference in real life unless the sides came up closer to the top of the mattress which would have its own issues.

If the recess was deep enough or the sides are thick enough (such as in the first picture) it would also give you a firmer edge to sit on but if it's too deep then it could also be uncomfortable if you roll out of bed or sleep close to the edge and compress the mattress enough to make contact with the wooden edge.

If it's too deep and there isn't any space between the mattress and the sides then it could also be a little more difficult to make the bed because you would need to slide your hand down the side and lift the mattress up to tuck your sheets underneath the mattress.

Phoenix
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