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Brooklyn Bedding 26 Sep 2014 20:07 #1

About 2 weeks ago I purchased a 3" 4 lb gel foam topper from them, Queen size. I was told by both Jacob and Mario that the 4 lb gel was as firm as the 5 lb topper. One of them told me the IFD of this foam was 11, that was the highest among all memory foam, turns out that is not true, the IFD can go as high as 14, for a 5 lb density topper. I told them I was a heavier person but they both insisted the topper would work for me. It has been so so. Most recently I have been trying to find out what is the most weight that this topper can effectively handle. I have sent 3 messages through their chat, 2 messages through their contact link, and left two phone messages. No response, and I had a friend helping me so there were two of us inquiring. You might want to point out to them that is how it is spelled "Inquire" not "Enquire" as they have when they do respond to you. Finally today I caught Jacob in the chat box, asked him how much weight can these toppers handle, the maximum amt. He was slow to respond, then asked for a little time, he said he was on the phone. Finally after 10 minutes he said he did not know, that would be a manufacturer spec, but they advertise there products are made in USA. Yes, he said, we get the memory foam from out of the country then build what we are making. Well, I think that makes the whole Made in the USA thing misleading. Then he tells me they have never had a problem with anyone who weighed under 400 lbs. I know how much I weigh and one of said toppers would be crushed by 400 lbs.. I think he pulled that out of a hat. I don't think he knew what to say. There responses to questions can be open-ended sometimes and the fact that it took SO LONG to get an answer to a simple question, and perhaps not a true answer, makes me think you might want to rethink your relationship with them. The fact that they are on your Membership List was the deciding factor in my purchase.

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Brooklyn Bedding 26 Sep 2014 20:46 #2

Hi smmimp14,

Most recently I have been trying to find out what is the most weight that this topper can effectively handle.


In general terms ... there is no minimum or maximum weight that any topper can handle because every layer and component in a sleeping system interacts with and affects all the other layers and components in the sleeping system so whether any mattress/topper combination would be a good match for you or anyone else in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) would depend on how all the materials in your sleeping system interact with each other and with the person sleeping on them.

There are so many variables involved both in the materials and design of the mattress under the topper and in the differences between body types and sleeping positions and personal preferences that a topper that works "perfectly" for one person may not work nearly as well for someone else ... even if they have a similar body type. Memory foam especially can also be affected by temperature, humidity, and the length of time it is continuously compressed and there are also many specs that can affect the softness or firmness of a material besides just ILD (see post #4 here ). With any material, using the ILD of a single layer by itself to assess how soft or firm a material or a topper will feel for any particular person in a particular sleeping system can be misleading but with memory foam in particular it is even less meaningful than it is for other types of more resilient materials.

One of them told me the IFD of this foam was 11, that was the highest among all memory foam, turns out that is not true, the IFD can go as high as 14, for a 5 lb density topper.


I suspect that you may be misinterpreting what they told you or at the very least you may have misunderstood their answer because this certainly isn't what they would tell a customer when they know that there are memory foams that are firmer than 11 ILD. Some memory foams are even in the high teens ... although again ILD with memory foam isn't particularly meaningful in "real life".

I told them I was a heavier person but they both insisted the topper would work for me.


They may have both believed that it would would work for you based on the information you provided them but these are always "best judgement" efforts to help a customer and I think that most people would realize that nobody can guarantee that any topper will work for any particular person on any particular mattress and it's always a matter of making suggestions with the "best odds" that will usually be successful but sometimes won't. I seriously doubt that either or them would "insist" that anything would work for someone because they both know that there are no guarantees that anything will work for a particular person that may be outside of the "averages".

You might want to point out to them that is how it is spelled "Inquire" not "Enquire" as they have when they do respond to you.


Inquire and Enquire are synonyms and both are "correct" ( see here )

He was slow to respond, then asked for a little time, he said he was on the phone. Finally after 10 minutes he said he did not know, that would be a manufacturer spec, but they advertise there products are made in USA. Yes, he said, we get the memory foam from out of the country then build what we are making. Well, I think that makes the whole Made in the USA thing misleading.


With this comment and some of the others you are making that don't sound reasonable or accurate to me I am beginning to suspect that you are misrepresenting what they are saying to you or making up some reasons to criticize them because this (and some of your other comments) just don't "ring true" to me. Your post has the "tone" of someone that has a hidden agenda for making the comments you are making or is scraping the bottom of the barrel to find reasons to criticize them ... and quite frankly I don't believe that what you are saying really happened the way you are representing it did.

It also doesn't help that you are asking questions that don't have any real answers because as I mentioned foam doesn't have weight ratings and would depend on the specifics of the application.

Then he tells me they have never had a problem with anyone who weighed under 400 lbs. I know how much I weigh and one of said toppers would be crushed by 400 lbs..


Any two or three inch topper by itself would be "crushed" by 400 lbs which is why it's used in combination with a mattress where the other layers in the mattress can absorb some of the compression forces.

There responses to questions can be open-ended sometimes and the fact that it took SO LONG to get an answer to a simple question, and perhaps not a true answer, makes me think you might want to rethink your relationship with them. The fact that they are on your Membership List was the deciding factor in my purchase.


Almost all questions about mattresses have an "it depends" in the answer and there are very few black and white answers to anything when it comes to mattress design theory. I would be much more likely to question your agenda and the reasons you are making some somewhat bizarre comments that are clearly meant to "influence" or that are trying to imply more than what you are disclosing ... and that clearly show that you have little knowledge about mattresses or mattress materials ... than I would be likely to rethink my recommendation of them based on the questionable comments of a single person.

If you don't like the topper or it isn't working out the way you hoped it would ... just return it.

If you had used the information in post #2 here and the topper guidelines that it links to (or read most of the guidelines on this site such as mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ) then you would have already realized before you made your purchase that it's impossible for anyone to provide answers with the degree of specificity you seem to be looking for.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Brooklyn Bedding 26 Sep 2014 22:10 #3

I am not scraping the bottom of any barrel, what I wrote is true and I am absolutely positive about the importing of the foam and then they make their products. When I see MADE IN THE USA I assume it was, as I assumed their foam was made in the USA and I do believe the statement to be misleading. I won't bother you anymore and won't rely on your website and will steer whoever I can away from it. You are condescending and arrogant and I am sure you lack the standing to be such a person.

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Brooklyn Bedding 27 Sep 2014 00:33 #4

Hi smmimp14,

I am not scraping the bottom of any barrel,


If your comments about "Inquire" vs "Enquire" when both are correct aren't scraping the bottom of the barrel then I don't know what is.

what I wrote is true and I am absolutely positive about the importing of the foam and then they make their products. When I see MADE IN THE USA I assume it was, as I assumed their foam was made in the USA and I do believe the statement to be misleading.


I believe that one of the benefits of living in a free society is that everyone is free to come to their own conclusions and choose the course of action that they believe is best without the undue "influence" of others. Some people also tend to be more responsible for the choices that they make and are more focused on solving any issues that they encounter along the way while others tend to focus more on "blaming others" for the outcome of some of their choices or don't deal well with mistakes or disappointment and are more focused on assigning blame or demonizing the people that they are "blaming" and much less focused on actually solving any issues they may have.

Part of that same free society is that there will always be those who believe that influencing others and "recruiting an army" of people that agree with them regardless of what the evidence ... or lack of it ... may point to is more important than providing them with the information that can help or encourage them to come to their own conclusions as well ... regardless of whether it may be the same as theirs or not. For some reason having others agree with them seems to provide them with some type of emotional satisfaction that in their own mind justifies their opinions and absolves them from having to look at any facts that they may not be willing to acknowledge or that contradicts what they believe.

I won't bother you anymore and won't rely on your website and will steer whoever I can away from it. You are condescending and arrogant and I am sure you lack the standing to be such a person.


It always strikes me as somewhat ironic that some people who have the freedom to come to some rather bizarre conclusions or who pursue a course of action that is more interested in pursuing a vendetta than solving problems, aren't happy until they can convince others to come to the same conclusions or pursue the same course of action as they "believe is best" and do their best to discourage others from coming to their own conclusions based on the evidence at hand. This sounds more like Schadenfreude than a genuine desire to help.

Just to make clear as well ... I have no "standing" outside of the information on this site ... and I would prefer that it always stays that way ... because I would much rather that people learn to rely on information that they can verify for themselves than rely on the so called "standing" of a person that provides it. That way they can come to their own conclusions about what the "preponderance of the evidence" points to and make their own "best judgement choices" free of the influences of others that are more focused on emotional gratification than on providing accurate or meaningful information. This is what real research and due diligence is all about.

Finally ... I still don't understand why you don't (or didn't) just return your topper instead of spending all this energy in trying to demonize a company that has worked very hard to build a great reputation with many thousands of satisfied customers over many years. It makes little sense to me.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Brooklyn Bedding 27 Sep 2014 07:48 #5

Hello smmimp14,

I am not sure what the issue is completely but it seems simply that you are not satisfied with your memory foam topper that you purchased from us. I have been in contact with you by phone as well as email, and I am always happy to resolve any issue that you might be having.

We have spoken on numerous occasions about the same topper and I have answered the same questions repeatedly. I explained that I cannot offer information on how to remedy the issues you are having with the mattress you have purchased from another company, that would be between you and them on how they can repair it I cannot offer advise to a setup I am not familiar with I apologize. It was also explained to you by me and a couple colleagues from many our original conversations (before you purchased the topper) that if the mattress you have was damaged or faulty that this topper would only be a temporary solution if a solutions at all. A mattress with body impressions cannot simply be remedied by putting a topper on it Information on replacing a mattress was also offered to you in our first conversation.

I generally post back to our customers hoping to be informative helpful to make the buying experience much easier but I can admit that I do not have all the answers that would help you cure all your ailments. The mattresses and toppers can definitely be extremely helpful but if you have major existing medical issues I would advise that you consult with your doctor.

I personally have been in the mattress industry for over 11 years and I am very educated in the products we offer and many mattresses that are available in this market. There are also very many mattress models available so I am sure I would not know every detail about every single type and style. I do my very best to offer as much of my knowledge to our customers as possible.

I will explain again that I am happy to help you but I cannot spend so much time conversing with you about what we have already spoken about in so many past conversations that I am missing phone calls and delaying emails to other customers. I can assure you that it is the faulty mattress you are currently sleeping on and if you repair/replace the mattress, the topper would feel better to you. I also explained if you are not completely satisfied with the topper you are welcome to return it.

Based on our last conversation as well I have already provided you with the information to our memory foam manufacturer as proof that our merchandise is all made in the U.S, I would be happy to provide any additional information if it is necessary for you to see that all of our merchandise is made in the United States.

Please feel free to contact me to discuss and I would be happy to spend a few minutes with you to resolve any issue I am able to.

Kind Regards,
Mario
Brooklyn Bedding
480.323.8831

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Last edit: by Mario.

Brooklyn Bedding 27 Sep 2014 13:44 #6

I apologize for my rant. I do not usually do things like that, had a lot of things going on and vented at the wrong people. I am sorry. Brooklyn Bedding has provided very good customer service and has been very patient with me. I have been ripped off one to many times by mattress or topper companies and so that probably was a contributing factor. I do like the topper, the mattress will be altered on Wednesday and hopefully all will go well from there, I expect it to. Again, I am sorry and do hope you will accept my apology. To anyone reading this, I do recommend Brooklyn Bedding if you are looking to purchase a good quality topper and I can't help but think that their mattresses are of very good quality as well. Either way you will receive excellent customer service at Brooklyn Bedding.

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