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Advice on mattress (Netherlands) 30 Oct 2014 09:19 #1

Hi, I´ve been struggling quite a bit over the last year or so to find a good replacement for my old mattress which started sagging after some years (Ikea Forsbacka). I have tried about six mattresses by now (pocket spring and foam), all of which could fortunately be returned, but the one I have now cannot be refunded. With each of these I encountered a different issue, although lack of support for my lower back was a recurring problem. I chose each of these mattresses after doing extensive research on the internet, and most of them received very good ratings from other people/ consumer organisations, so that I thought I must be making a good choice. Now that even my latest choice is disappointing, I am trying to get a bit desperate that I’ll ever be able to find a proper mattress that I can afford (I am a student, so more of less in the “Ikea” price range).

So, the mattress I have now (since June) is this one: www.arenascollection.com/nl/slaapkamer-c2/bed-and-matras-c230/velda-pocket-300-hr-p3027.html# (regular version). Could only find the description in Dutch (I am living in the Netherlands) so here are the specs: 300 pocket springs/ m2, 1.6 or 1.8 mm thick depending on the zone, covered with 2.5 cm of HR38 foam on both sides, and best buy according to a Belgian consumer organisation. The problem I have with this mattress is that is feels very soft around my hips and lower half of my torso, so that it is not very supportive for my waist/ lower back. On the other hand, the part under the lower part of my rib cage is relatively firm, so that I feel a lot of pressure there. It’s acceptable when I go to sleep, but I tend to wake up in the early morning with back pain in that area. I then often move to an old (stinky) mattress that I have lying around (which is also pocket sprung, non-zoned but pretty smelly/ too cold as it has only a thin polyether layer covering the springs) but I would prefer to actually throw that one away and spend the whole night on a proper mattress… ;)

I don’t know if this forum is the right place to ask for advice, also because it seems to mostly cover mattresses that are sold in the US (and, as I pointed out, I live in the Netherlands), but I’m starting to get tired (literally) of this whole mattress thing so was hoping you might give me some good recommendations. Maybe it helps to know that I am female, late 20s, 5’ 6, 150 lbs, sleeping (mostly on my side, sometimes with one leg pulled up) in a queen by myself, and have a bit of a pear shape (ie short legs, quite heavy thighs/ bum, however not particularly wide hips bones compared to the rest). I am starting to think that the problem all the mattresses I tried had in common is the zoning, cause when I sleep on a thermarest air mattress when camping or non-zoned hotel bed I have no issues. However, it seems almost impossible nowadays to find a mattress made of decent materials (not polyether) that is NOT zoned in one way or the other.

Does any of you have some good tips for me on this? Thanks in advance!

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Last edit: by pl4nt. Reason: misspelled something

Advice on mattress (Netherlands) 30 Oct 2014 12:15 #2

Hi pl4nt,

I don't have any specific knowledge about the Dutch market but the general information, steps, and guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial here would be just as relevant in any country as they are in Canada and the US (which is the market that I'm familiar with).

Some of the specs of a mattress may be listed differently in Europe than they are in the US and Canada (they will tend to use kg/m3 for their memory foam and polyfoam specs instead of lbs/ft3) so you can convert the foam density guidelines on the site from one to the other by using the density conversion calculator here . For example ... the polyfoam density of the mattress you linked is 38 kg/m3 which converts to 2.37 lbs/ft3 which is a high quality and durable material.

It’s acceptable when I go to sleep, but I tend to wake up in the early morning with back pain in that area.


Lower back pain when you wake up in the morning is a typical "symptom" from a mattress that doesn't keep you in good alignment over the course of the night. There is more about primary and secondary support and pressure relief in post #2 here and post #4 here and there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and the most common causes for them in post #2 here .

I don’t know if this forum is the right place to ask for advice, also because it seems to mostly cover mattresses that are sold in the US (and, as I pointed out, I live in the Netherlands), but I’m starting to get tired (literally) of this whole mattress thing so was hoping you might give me some good recommendations. Maybe it helps to know that I am female, late 20s, 5’ 6, 150 lbs, sleeping (mostly on my side, sometimes with one leg pulled up) in a queen by myself, and have a bit of a pear shape (ie short legs, quite heavy thighs/ bum, however not particularly wide hips bones compared to the rest).

and best buy according to a Belgian consumer organisation.


I would also be very skeptical about "best buy" recommendations because each person is different and a mattress that is a great "match" for one person in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) may not be a good match at all for someone else and may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on.

Unfortunately nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that make each person unique for anyone to be able to make specific suggestions about which mattress may be the best "match" for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance (see ]post #2 here ).

I am starting to think that the problem all the mattresses I tried had in common is the zoning, cause when I sleep on a thermarest air mattress when camping or non-zoned hotel bed I have no issues. However, it seems almost impossible nowadays to find a mattress made of decent materials (not polyether) that is NOT zoned in one way or the other.


While some zoning configurations can certainly be helpful for many people ... they can also be detrimental depending on how well your body type and sleeping positions fit the specific zoning pattern of the mattress. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and post #2 here but your own personal testing and/or experience on a mattress will be the only way to know whether a specific mattress or zoning pattern is a good match for you.

While I can't help you with any specific suggestions because I don't know anything about your market ... I'm certainly happy to help with "how" to choose or to answer any specific questions you may have that I am able to answer or to act as a "fact check" about any of the information you are given in your research.

Phoenix
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Advice on mattress (Netherlands) 02 Nov 2014 07:08 #3

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks a lot for the extensive reply/ useful information! I just spent a few hours looking into everything, and I definitely feel that I’m making progress ;)

I probably didn’t state this clearly in my previous post, but the problem I have with the current mattress is not so much pain in my lower back as pain in my middle back (lower rib cage) where the mattress seems too firm compared to the rest and is thus creating a pressure point. I feel it would be perfect if this firmer zone would have been placed a little lower, so in my lumbar area rather than my chest area if that makes sense…

In any case, the mattress I now have is clearly not the best option for me. I’ve read some more info on your website/ some others and am now thinking that if I need zoning at all, it should include a firmer rather than less firm zone under my hips, as they are relatively heavy (at least that’s how I interpret the tips and tricks section: • If you carry a lot of weight in your hips and/or have heavy/wide hips, especially with thinner shoulders, then a zoned mattress core that is firmer under your hips may be very helpful.). Would you say that’s right? The same came out of a “calculator” I used where I put info like length, weight, posture, back problems, etc. and there the outcome was that I needed medium firmness for my hips and lumbar area and a softer zone for my shoulders.

I have also looked into some possible options and I now have the following ones (with some considerations added):

- Ikea Hesseng (firm): www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60258737/ . Seems comparable to the Heggedal sold in the US. I remember lying on this before and I sort of liked it, especially because it felt relatively supportive and because of the latex/ natural material comfort layers. My concern would be the low coil count though (187/ m2, so that should be 17.4/ft2). There was some sort of cross section through the mattress at Ikea and it looks to me as if they produce the shoulder/ hip zone by leaving quite a bit of space between the springs there. I would say this should reduce support in these areas, and since I am looking for proper support at least in the hip area this might not be ideal. People at Ikea also told me that the only difference between medium and firm versions of their pocket coil mattresses is the firmness of the insulation layer between the coils and comfort layers which feels to me like the wrong way to go about this. 599 euros

- Ikea Hesseng + Torod latex topper www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/20188478/ . Some people seem to think the Hesseng is too firm and add this for extra comfort. If this would be the perfect option I might consider it but actually it is a too pricey for me. 928 euros

- Several options of a German company 1.5h drive away ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/Matrassen-van-koudschuim-visco-traagschuim-of-latex.html ) that seem good value. They have several polyfoam and latex options. I find it hard to tell which would be best value (my initial budget was up to 400 euros but if going up a bit will greatly improve my sleeping experience I’m thinking I should maybe do so):
o HR40 mattress (2.5 lbs/ft3): 279 euros
o HR60 mattress (3.7 lbs/ft3): 379 euros
o 20% natural latex mattress, Dunlop (SG60 = 3.7 lbs/ft3, Latexco): 399 euros
o 85% natural latex mattress, Dunlop (SG75 = 4.7 lbs/ft3, Latexco): 579 euros
o 30% natural latex mattress, Talalay (three layers, middle one 4.3, others 3.7 lbs/ft3, Radium Foam): 1099 euro
All of these seem to have 7 zones with softer hip/ shoulder areas although the 20% natural latex looks like it has a firmer hip zone ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/matrassen/7-zone-latex/latex-oeko-tex.html ), as does the Talalay one ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/matrassen/7-zone-latex/origineel-talalay-latexmatras-in-hardheid-2-tot-3-en-30-tot-110kg-lichaamsgewicht.html ). I tried their HR60 mattress before, but it felt too bouncy for my liking (like a water bed) + it smelled terrible for some weeks so that I returned it, but maybe their latex ones are better options? Also, do you have any idea how H2 and H3 relate to ILD? I couldn’t find this info anywhere. It seems I need H2 as I am under 80 kg (68 kg), but was told by them to try the H3 for the HR60 mattress.

- Another chain that is quite popular but receives mixed consumer reports especially with respect to service is this one ( www.beterbed.nl/products/pocketveringMatrassen.do ). The mattresses they have that I might consider are (all prices are for 2 x 70 cm, for which you get the second for free. I hope you can get one of 140 cm for the same price):
o Pocket silver deluxe: 310 coils/ m2, HR40 cover layer. 369 euros.
o Pocket gold: 398 coils/ m2, HR50 cover layer, profiled. 459 euros.
o Pocket gold superieur: 398 coils/ m2, latex SG65 cover layer, profiled. 659 euros.

- The most famous quality mattress brand in the Netherlands is this one ( www.auping.nl/web/matras/beste-matrassen/CompareProductsDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10151&catentryId=20320&catentryId=20567&catentryId=82615 ). I looked at some of their options just to compare. In terms of materials used they are not particularly clear, although they usually score quite good in tests. Would you say that there is any justification for the higher prices they ask? It is definitely above my budget (pocket + HR foam starts from 1300 euros), but I’m still curious whether paying so much more might actually mean that the products really are higher quality.

Just for comparison: the mattress I had before and liked was Ikea Forsbacka (latex on foam, firm), the stinky mattress that I do like for its comfort/ support is Ikea Norrsken (firm, pockets springs + polyether, no zoning as far as I can see, from a sticker on the coils I’d say coil count is 200 - 250/ m2), and the one I have now is Velda 300HR (medium version, 300 coils/ m2, HR38 cover layer. Supportive, but placement of zones seems wrong for me).

Thanks a lot in advance!

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Advice on mattress (Netherlands) 02 Nov 2014 11:25 #4

Hi pl4nt,

Many of your questions are about PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) so your own careful testing will be the only way to find out reliable answers about which mattress is the most suitable choice because each person is different.

If you carry a lot of weight in your hips and/or have heavy/wide hips, especially with thinner shoulders, then a zoned mattress core that is firmer under your hips may be very helpful.). Would you say that’s right? The same came out of a “calculator” I used where I put info like length, weight, posture, back problems, etc. and there the outcome was that I needed medium firmness for my hips and lumbar area and a softer zone for my shoulders.


While each person can be very different in many ways (body weight, physiology, weight distribution, variations in sleeping position, sensitivity, flexibility, health conditions, what they have become used to sleeping on, and many others) and there is no way to predict how anyone will do on a specific mattress with any certainty based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ) ... in very general terms this would have higher odds of success yes.

- Ikea Hesseng (firm): www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60258737/ . Seems comparable to the Heggedal sold in the US. I remember lying on this before and I sort of liked it, especially because it felt relatively supportive and because of the latex/ natural material comfort layers. My concern would be the low coil count though (187/ m2, so that should be 17.4/ft2). There was some sort of cross section through the mattress at Ikea and it looks to me as if they produce the shoulder/ hip zone by leaving quite a bit of space between the springs there. I would say this should reduce support in these areas, and since I am looking for proper support at least in the hip area this might not be ideal. People at Ikea also told me that the only difference between medium and firm versions of their pocket coil mattresses is the firmness of the insulation layer between the coils and comfort layers which feels to me like the wrong way to go about this. 599 euros


Changing the firmness of the insulator can make a significant difference in the feel and performance of a mattress and the ability of the innerspring to contour to the shape of your body and this is one part of how innerspring mattresses are made firmer or softer. In general though ... the weakest link of a mattress is in the layers over the innerspring and not in the innerspring itself. In most cases ... the innerspring will have a bigger effect on performance than it will on durability. Again ... the key is what your body is telling you when you test the mattress. If you are uncertain about whether your testing will "translate" into your actual sleeping experience then the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or to exchange or return the mattress would become a more important part of your personal value equation. Getting overly involved in coil count as a primary way to choose a mattress can be more misleading than helpful ( see here and post #10 here ).

- Ikea Hesseng + Torod latex topper www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/20188478/ . Some people seem to think the Hesseng is too firm and add this for extra comfort. If this would be the perfect option I might consider it but actually it is a too pricey for me. 928 euros


Again this would depend on the results of your personal testing on the Hesseng and the Hesseng/Torod combination. What works "perfectly" for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on.

- Several options of a German company 1.5h drive away ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/Matrassen-...schuim-of-latex.html ) that seem good value. They have several polyfoam and latex options. I find it hard to tell which would be best value (my initial budget was up to 400 euros but if going up a bit will greatly improve my sleeping experience I’m thinking I should maybe do so):
o HR40 mattress (2.5 lbs/ft3): 279 euros
o HR60 mattress (3.7 lbs/ft3): 379 euros
o 20% natural latex mattress, Dunlop (SG60 = 3.7 lbs/ft3, Latexco): 399 euros
o 85% natural latex mattress, Dunlop (SG75 = 4.7 lbs/ft3, Latexco): 579 euros
o 30% natural latex mattress, Talalay (three layers, middle one 4.3, others 3.7 lbs/ft3, Radium Foam): 1099 euro
All of these seem to have 7 zones with softer hip/ shoulder areas although the 20% natural latex looks like it has a firmer hip zone ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/matrassen/.../latex-oeko-tex.html ), as does the Talalay one ( www.ravensberger-matrassen.nl/matrassen/...lichaamsgewicht.html ). I tried their HR60 mattress before, but it felt too bouncy for my liking (like a water bed) + it smelled terrible for some weeks so that I returned it, but maybe their latex ones are better options? Also, do you have any idea how H2 and H3 relate to ILD? I couldn’t find this info anywhere. It seems I need H2 as I am under 80 kg (68 kg), but was told by them to try the H3 for the HR60 mattress.


There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here and the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP and how well you are likely to sleep on it is always the most important consideration. Next is the durability of the materials (how long you will sleep well before the materials in a mattress soften and break down too much) and finally is how a mattress compares to your other finalists based on the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. The first step is always to narrow down your choices at each store to a single mattress based on your testing and preferences. All the materials that you listed here are good quality materials but you didn't list all the layers of each mattress you are considering.

I don't know the firmness ratings of the latex you are considering but ILD is only one part of what makes one material feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here ) and the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex aren't directly comparable to each other anyway (see post #6 here ) so putting too much focus on ILD alone can be more misleading than helpful.

- Another chain that is quite popular but receives mixed consumer reports especially with respect to service is this one ( www.beterbed.nl/products/pocketveringMatrassen.do ). The mattresses they have that I might consider are (all prices are for 2 x 70 cm, for which you get the second for free. I hope you can get one of 140 cm for the same price):
o Pocket silver deluxe: 310 coils/ m2, HR40 cover layer. 369 euros.
o Pocket gold: 398 coils/ m2, HR50 cover layer, profiled. 459 euros.
o Pocket gold superieur: 398 coils/ m2, latex SG65 cover layer, profiled. 659 euros.


Again ... only you can decide how a mattress feels and performs in terms of PPP. If you can list the specifics of the layers and components in a mattress I'd be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials or help you identify any weak links but the "PPP" part of choosing a mattress needs to be based on your own personal experience.

- The most famous quality mattress brand in the Netherlands is this one ( www.auping.nl/web/matras/beste-matrassen...567&catentryId=82615 ). I looked at some of their options just to compare. In terms of materials used they are not particularly clear, although they usually score quite good in tests. Would you say that there is any justification for the higher prices they ask? It is definitely above my budget (pocket + HR foam starts from 1300 euros), but I’m still curious whether paying so much more might actually mean that the products really are higher quality.


I would avoid any mattress where you aren't able to find out the specifics of the materials inside it ... it's just too risky and the odds of buyers remorse is too high ... and it doesn't allow you to make any meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Last edit: by Phoenix.
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