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Big box base + custom topper? 20 May 2015 12:38 #1

I'm considering getting a cheaper base with a topper. Specifically, after trying many things, the most comfortable in the <1000$ price range was somehow this www.sleepworld.com/mattress/sleepworld-designs/1797777/ + a memory foam topper
It seemed to address all the PPP's, but I'm still worried given the consensus here about such distributors that it's overprice and will fail in a year....
Would it be possible to go to another place (I'm in sf), and ask for mattresses similar to that but with higher quality materials?

I'm also not quite sure what base I should get (options seem to be bunky board and box spring). and if the topper coming loose is something I should worry about (I've never had one before)

Thanks!

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Big box base + custom topper? 20 May 2015 17:18 #2

Hi arc,

I'm considering getting a cheaper base with a topper. Specifically, after trying many things, the most comfortable in the <1000$ price range was somehow this www.sleepworld.com/mattress/sleepworld-designs/1797777/ + a memory foam topper
It seemed to address all the PPP's, but I'm still worried given the consensus here about such distributors that it's overprice and will fail in a year....


You can see my comments about buying a mattress/topper combination where you can't test the combination in person in post #2 here .

At the very least I would make sure that you know the specifics of all the layers in the "base" mattress (see this article ) so you can confirm there aren't any lower quality materials or weak links in the base mattress (which would be very likely in a mattress in this budget range). In many if not most cases you would probably be able to purchase a better sleeping system in the same or a lower budget range as the mattress/topper combination by purchasing a mattress that already has the comfort layers that you are looking for inside the mattress itself (instead of on top of the mattress) and that doesn't contain the lower quality materials that are subject to early softening or breakdown that would likely be in a base mattress in this budget range.

It seemed to address all the PPP's, but I'm still worried given the consensus here about such distributors that it's overprice and will fail in a year....


Have you actually tested the specific mattress topper combination to make sure that it's a good match for you in terms of PPP? The only way that you will know with any certainty if the combination is a good "match" for you will be based on your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience.

Would it be possible to go to another place (I'm in sf), and ask for mattresses similar to that but with higher quality materials?


I would also be very cautious about using another mattress (or a mattress topper combination) as your "target" or reference point because it may not be the best possible match for you in the first place and you could end up excluding another mattress that may be different but could be a better choice in terms of PPP. The human memory for softness, firmness, and "feel" is also very unreliable and a mattress that may feel similar to what you "remember" another mattress feels like may end up being very different. I would rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria (rather than against another mattress or mattress/topper) using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and based on which one is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

There is also more about the different ways to choose the most suitable mattress (locally and online) that can help you assess and minimize the risks involved of making a choice that isn't as suitable for you as you hoped for with each of them in post #2 here .

The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the San Francisco area (subject to the quality/value guidelines here ) are listed in post #2 here .

I'm also not quite sure what base I should get (options seem to be bunky board and box spring). and if the topper coming loose is something I should worry about (I've never had one before)


There is more about the different types of support systems that would be suitable for different types of mattresses and some good sources for each of them in post #1 here but most retailers and manufacturers will have a foundation that is suitable for a mattress that you purchase from them.

Most toppers will be fine since they will be secured to the mattress with your mattress protector and your sheets and bedding.

Phoenix
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Big box base + custom topper? 20 May 2015 22:28 #3

Hmmm. All I know about the innards is what is in that link:

744 pocketed 6'' Coils
15 gauge
1 1/2'' of High Density Ultra Plush Foam
Hi Loft Fire Barrier
High Res Densified Fiber Pad
Multi-slat Center Supported Foundation

I'm guessing that doesn't help much....

I did try the mattress topper combo at the story, so I know it's a potential fit. I guess the other reason to keep them separate is that if my posture gets better, I can switch out the top pad for a firmer one...! But good to know that's it's more expensive.

Thanks for the link about SF stores - the most promising (aka only one with a mattress <= 800) was Keetsa, which has this shop.keetsa.com/collections/mattresses/products/the-keetsa-plus
I'll try it tomorrow and see if it feels good - if so I'm curious if the materials are reasonable!

Oh - the futon place also has some budget options - I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different between a futon mattress and a normal mattress though.

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Last edit: by arc.

Big box base + custom topper? 20 May 2015 23:58 #4

Hi arc,

Hmmm. All I know about the innards is what is in that link:
744 pocketed 6'' Coils
15 gauge
1 1/2'' of High Density Ultra Plush Foam
Hi Loft Fire Barrier
High Res Densified Fiber Pad
Multi-slat Center Supported Foundation
I'm guessing that doesn't help much....


At least the "base mattress" only has 1.5" of low quality foam but it's probably very low quality and I don't know the density of the memory foam topper you tried with it so that will also have a significant effect on the durability of your "sleeping system". Do you know the density of the memory foam topper you tested with the mattress?

Thanks for the link about SF stores - the most promising (aka only one with a mattress <= 800) was Keetsa, which has this shop.keetsa.com/collections/mattresses/products/the-keetsa-plus
I'll try it tomorrow and see if it feels good - if so I'm curious if the materials are reasonable!


If you can find out the specifics of any mattress you are considering (see the article here ) and post it on the forum I'd be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials and the mattress as a whole. Without this information it's not possible to make any meaningful comments about the quality or durability of a mattress.

Oh - the futon place also has some budget options - I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different between a futon mattress and a normal mattress though.


There really isn't a great deal of difference any more since many of the futons that are available today use similar components to mattresses (see post #2 here ). The main difference is that futons are generally thinner and firmer and are usually meant to double up as a sofa on a futon frame although if they are a good match for you in terms of PPP they can be just as suitable as a sleeping system as a more traditional mattress.

I'm not sure what size you are looking for since that could make a significant difference in the price of a mattress but there are certainly other options on the San Francisco list besides Keetsa that would have a good quality/value mattress for under $1000 and I would make sure you include a phone conversation with Nest Bedding in your research as well.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Big box base + custom topper? 21 May 2015 23:06 #5

Ok. Here are the options I found today that seemed to satisfy PPP,


From the futon store:
Details: www.thefutonshop.com/EcoSupport-Chemical-Free-Wool-Latex-Spring-Futon-Mattress/p/767/6850/option/Queen

~$700
Virgin Wool
Organic Dunlop Latex
- 2 Inch Core - 35 ILD - 90 Density (1 inch either side)
Innerspring with 733 3 inch individual pocket coils
- Made from long-lasting recycled steel.
Organic Cotton Case (100% Organic Cotton)

My worries here are:
- No real warranty (just 30/90 days for exchange/restocking)
- 1 in of latex on its own may degrade quickly? (it's 2 in total, 1 on each side)
- Tufting of the wool creates unevenness in the bed - I think it feels like I"m on an angle (I can have them make it without the wool/tufting...but I'm not sure what I'd replace that with, and I can't try that out)
- I really like the idea of being able to fold it into a sitting futon also, but I'm worried it will degrade it faster.

There was another mattress here that I liked but sadly I somehow didn't get a picture of it's spec sheet :/

From Keetsa, the Pillow Plus mattress may work too, or just the Plus and a topper.
They said specs were online but I can't find them, so I'll have to call tomorrow to check in on that.
One nice thing is that there is no need for box spring or bunky board.

Finally, the very low priced (279$) Zinus mattress was reasonable ( shop.bestpricemattressstore.com/collections/sets/products/8-spring-mattresses ), but I also can't find specs for that.

I now have several acceptable options on PPP grounds. The thing I'm wondering is quality / degradation, and the difference between 15 minutes in a store and one night of sleep. I'll get back to this thread as I gather more specs, but in the meanwhile, I'm curious about the worry's I mentioned about the futon if anyone has experience with that (tufting, wool alternatives, folding, etc.)

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Last edit: by arc.

Big box base + custom topper? 22 May 2015 01:01 #6

Hi arc,

From the futon store:
Details: www.thefutonshop.com/EcoSupport-Chemical...67/6850/option/Queen
~$700
Virgin Wool
Organic Dunlop Latex
- 2 Inch Core - 35 ILD - 90 Density (1 inch either side)
Innerspring with 733 3 inch individual pocket coils
- Made from long-lasting recycled steel.
Organic Cotton Case (100% Organic Cotton)
My worries here are:
- No real warranty (just 30/90 days for exchange/restocking)
- 1 in of latex on its own may degrade quickly? (it's 2 in total, 1 on each side)
- Tufting of the wool creates unevenness in the bed - I think it feels like I"m on an angle (I can have them make it without the wool/tufting...but I'm not sure what I'd replace that with, and I can't try that out)
- I really like the idea of being able to fold it into a sitting futon also, but I'm worried it will degrade it faster.


There are all good quality materials and there are no obvious weak links in this futon. Latex is the most durable foam material in the industry so it certainly wouldn't be a durability issue.

They don't say how much wool is in the quilting but thicker layers of wool can be prone to some initial impressions but the tufting will help prevent the wool from shifting or bunching and will pre compress the wool to reduce impressions and if you sleep on different areas of the futon and flip the futon on a regular basis the impressions will tend to even out over time. While the wool can become firmer as it compresses ... it will have little effect on the support/alignment of the mattress because wool gets firmer as it compresses unlike foam which gets softer over time as it breaks down.

Constant bending of any mattress or futon can certainly either weaken or speed up the breakdown of the materials and components in the area of the bend over time.

If the tufting is clearly uncomfortable for you then I would certainly take this into account in any purchase decision.

From Keetsa, the Pillow Plus mattress may work too, or just the Plus and a topper.
They said specs were online but I can't find them, so I'll have to call tomorrow to check in on that.
One nice thing is that there is no need for box spring or bunky board.


I would be very cautious here and I would make sure that you find out the quality/density of all the layers in the mattress before you consider purchasing it (see this article ). There are over 3" of polyfoam in this mattress and some additional polyester fiber as well which are likely to be lower quality and less durable materials that would very likely be a weak link in this mattress (see the foam quality/density guidelines here ).

Finally, the very low priced (279$) Zinus mattress was reasonable ( shop.bestpricemattressstore.com/collecti.../8-spring-mattresses ), but I also can't find specs for that.


Like the Keetsa (which is also made by Zinus) this would also use lower quality foam and fiber and I would be very cautious here as well unless durability isn't an issue for you. This is the budget range where you will normally find mattresses that would only be suitable for a guest bedroom or temporary use.

I would also read post #6 here before you consider purchasing any mattress manufactured in China (such as any Zinus mattress) so you can factor in the additional uncertainty involved if you are buying a mattress that is compressed for longer periods of time during shipping and storage.

Out of these three the only one that I would realistically consider would be the futon although there may be better options available to you than any of these.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Last edit: by phoenix.

Big box base + custom topper? 02 Jun 2015 22:59 #7

So I've been stumped on this for a while. I think my ideal mattress is a spring bed with, 1 or 2 in of latex + wool (or some similar material; untufted or with shallow tufts- perhaps like www.amazon.com/Sleep-Beyond-80-Inch-Organic-Mattress/dp/B004DC1S2K).

I think a queen or full with those specs should (in theory) not be hard to find, even with a decent warranty / comfort exchange, under $1000...but I've had no luck so far. (thefutonshop doesn't have any chance to return or exchange their futon mattresses :/)

Any recommendation of how to get unstumped? Or is what I'm looking for unreasonable?

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Big box base + custom topper? 02 Jun 2015 23:44 #8

Hi arc,

I think a queen or full with those specs should (in theory) not be hard to find, even with a decent warranty / comfort exchange, under $1000...but I've had no luck so far. (thefutonshop doesn't have any chance to return or exchange their futon mattresses :/)

Any recommendation of how to get unstumped? Or is what I'm looking for unreasonable?


There are many latex innerspring mattresses that would meet your very general criteria that would be very different from each other but outside of making sure that the materials in a mattress are good quality and that there are no weak links in a mattress ... I would avoid choosing a mattress based on specs because it's unlikely that you would have the many years of experience and knowledge that would be required to be able to "translate" complex specs and layering combinations into what a mattress will feel like for you in your "real life" sleeping experience.

There is also more information in post #2 here about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them.

There are some latex innerspring hybrids listed in post #2 here but many of them would be outside your budget range.

There is also more about choosing a wool topper in post #8 here and the posts it links to including a link to some of the better sources for wool toppers I'm aware of.

Some of the better lower budget online options I'm aware of are also listed in post #4 here but only a few of these are innerspring/latex hybrids.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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