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19 Mar 2017 12:29 #781 by Phoenix

Hi atomheartmother,

Thank you for the photos of your bed set.

If you chose to use the foundations like the USBoxSpring you mentioned, those would work fine upon your existing set up as pictured. The main support would be from the three cross slats with the legs down to the floor that you showed in the photos, and the “sagging” that you’re getting from the thin decking would not be noticed. I would just make sure that you choose the appropriate thickness of foundation so that your mattress doesn’t sit up too high, and also be sure that your leg height is adjusted appropriately if there was a glide adjustment at the bottom of the support legs..

Phoenix


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20 Mar 2017 15:33 - 20 Mar 2017 15:35 #782 by atomheartmother

Phoenix wrote: Hi atomheartmother,

Thank you for the photos of your bed set.

If you chose to use the foundations like the USBoxSpring you mentioned, those would work fine upon your existing set up as pictured. The main support would be from the three cross slats with the legs down to the floor that you showed in the photos, and the “sagging” that you’re getting from the thin decking would not be noticed. I would just make sure that you choose the appropriate thickness of foundation so that your mattress doesn’t sit up too high, and also be sure that your leg height is adjusted appropriately if there was a glide adjustment at the bottom of the support legs..

Phoenix


Thanks for your help. I order the foundation. We'll have to check it out Friday when it arrives.

Should I leave the fiberboard deck planks on or pull them off (foundation directly on the slats)? I suppose the decking really wouldn't be adding anything.

Is there any value to replacing the slats with nice hardwood slats (the current ones are some painted plywood)? Or are they fine assuming they don't flex and don't break?

Last Edit: 20 Mar 2017 15:35 by atomheartmother.

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20 Mar 2017 16:21 #783 by Phoenix

Hi atonheartmother,

Should I leave the fiberboard deck planks on or pull them off (foundation directly on the slats)? I suppose the decking really wouldn't be adding anything.

I would leave them on, as in your bed set it seems as their primary purpose is to keep dust from getting to the contents of the items in the drawers under the bed.

Is there any value to replacing the slats with nice hardwood slats (the current ones are some painted plywood)? Or are they fine assuming they don't flex and don't break?

If they’re performing well I would see no need to replace them at this time.

Phoenix


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03 Apr 2017 15:52 #784 by azcards4ever

Here's the story: Bought Queen BBE Soft and have had it for about two weeks. Synopsis: Worst back ache and hip pain ever!!! Wake up every morning with a sore back and bad hip...side sleeper, figured I probably should have chosen the Medium firmness. Wife, who thought she loved a soft mattress...ditto but less pain.

This Friday I swapped beds with my "old reliable spring mattress" in spare room; put that on my foundation in Master (foundation was a new 5" foundation/metal frame that came with a Saatva bed I returned). I kept it since it was sturdy, new, and decent price. I put the BBE on my old box spring with old metal support frame in spare bed.

Situation occurs where son has to sleep with wife so I get booted out of the bed; have to go sleep on the BBE on the old box spring. Guess what? Beautiful sleep!!!! No aches, no pains, just great sleep. Happened again the 2nd night....no aches and pains, great rest.

Am I missing something here? Obviously the old box spring was the key, but it seems kinda reversed.
I'm thinking of moving the BBE and the old box spring into the master and run with it. Thoughts?

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03 Apr 2017 23:31 #785 by jefmoody

Being one who has a BME Soft...I use a wireframe base (Inexpensive) and I sleep so good on it. Of course, I'm a side sleeper and we need a soft mattress. How do you sleep?
I would also ask Phoenix how you sleep well on the box spring.

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04 Apr 2017 11:47 #786 by Phoenix

Hi azcards4ever,

Welcome to the forum! :)

Here's the story: Bought Queen BBE Soft and have had it for about two weeks. Synopsis: Worst back ache and hip pain ever!!! Wake up every morning with a sore back and bad hip...side sleeper, figured I probably should have chosen the Medium firmness. Wife, who thought she loved a soft mattress...ditto but less pain.

I’m sorry your current BME mattress seems to be a bit too soft for you. The good news is that you did choose a product that allows for an exchange/return should that become necessary.

This Friday I swapped beds with my "old reliable spring mattress" in spare room; put that on my foundation in Master (foundation was a new 5" foundation/metal frame that came with a Saatva bed I returned). I kept it since it was sturdy, new, and decent price. I put the BBE on my old box spring with old metal support frame in spare bed.

Situation occurs where son has to sleep with wife so I get booted out of the bed; have to go sleep on the BBE on the old box spring. Guess what? Beautiful sleep!!!! No aches, no pains, just great sleep. Happened again the 2nd night....no aches and pains, great rest.

Unfortunately your question doesn't have any specific answers and there are a few "it depends" that are part of the answers that I might be able to provide you with, but I’ll do my best to see if I can help you figure things out.

First, there is information about the many different symptoms/pains that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes behind them in post #2 here . Generally speaking, the most common reason for lower back pain is a mattress that has comfort layers that are too thick/soft or a support core that is too soft.

Starting with your BME, it is recommended that this be placed on a surface that is flat and firm. The foundation from your Saatva is a basic wood platform construction, so that generally would suffice. Your bedframe should also be fine, and you’d want to make sure that the center support for that is in place. So I’m assuming that the frame/foundation set up in your master bedroom is appropriate for the BME mattress and gives a more accurate representation of how the mattress is supposed to perform.

Moving to the guest bedroom, you describe the old bottom part of your mattress set as a "box spring". Is it actually a true coil box spring that has quit a bit of flex to it? This is not too common, even going back a few decades ago. Is it a folded torsion system that flexes a bit but not as much as a coil box spring? And does the frame in that room have a proper center reinforcement?

The reason I’m curious about the actual construction of the guest room “box spring” is that it would provide some insight into what you’re experiencing. Assuming that it is an actual coil box spring, it might be allowing your BME to sink in more than when placed upon a proper flat surface, allowing you to sink in more deeply, which could point toward you having a “learned alignment” where you prefer to have your hips sink in more deeply with an accentuated lateral curvature. As you’ve only had your current mattress for two weeks, it might not be enough time for your body to adjust to a better alignment. An “active component” under your mattress generally impacts your deep support characteristics, and not so much your perception of surface comfort. It could be that you respond best to having something under your mattress that does allow for some “give”.

Another difference is dynamic of who is sleeping in the mattress. I would test out both of you sleeping on the BME in the guest room and see if you still sleep well, as having two people in the mattress also can impact your alignment.

Besides those two thoughts and the link I provided above, these are just my best guesses and “theory at a distance” as to the “why” of what is happening, and without more specific information I wouldn’t have a much better idea than those thoughts.

I’m curious to learn the actual configuration of your “box spring”.

Phoenix


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07 Apr 2017 20:27 #787 by Dr.Ake

Ugh. I wish I didn't have to say this, but our (Soft) BME will be going back (or donated, or whatever.) My wife, the impetus behind the search for a new mattress, has not been able to adjust to the BME. While I am very happy with the mattress, it's too firm for her and she has decided that it has to go. The motion transfer quality of the mattress is also a big problem for her. That bouncy feeling of latex is not what she wants.

We would like to stay with a 10" thickness so we don't have to replace all of our great sheets and we already have the bed frame up on risers for storage underneath, so if we had to go with a 14 inch mattress, we'd have to jump up to get on the bed. We're now looking at the Helix in the softest configuration. Any other suggestions?

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08 Apr 2017 11:54 #788 by Phoenix

Hi Dr.Ake

Ugh. I wish I didn't have to say this, but our (Soft) BME will be going back (or donated, or whatever.) My wife, the impetus behind the search for a new mattress, has not been able to adjust to the BME. While I am very happy with the mattress, it's too firm for her and she has decided that it has to go. The motion transfer quality of the mattress is also a big problem for her. That bouncy feeling of latex is not what she wants.

I’m sorry to hear the your BME Soft isn’t working out for your wife as well as you had hoped :( , but at least you did have the foresight to choose a product that allows for a return, so that’s good news.

We're now looking at the Helix in the softest configuration. Any other suggestions?

If I remember correctly you had an older Tempurpedic that was causing you some issues in comfort that seemed to be relived with the new mattress. It seems as that your wife prefers the point elasticity of memory foam but not the higher resiliency that the latex in the BME provided, at least from your descriptions in your previous posts. The Helix uses an advanced algorithm where they mix the firmness of the top two layers of polyfoam and the top three layers of comfort materials in order to provide as close of a match as possible to what they think you might like. The higher quality polyfoam, microcoil unit and the high performance polyfoam used in the upper comfort layers will be more resilient than your old memory foam mattress, but probably not as much as the BME was. My best suggestion would be a detailed conversation with Helix on the phone and explain to them your complete history, from the older memory foam bed and your personal need for a bit better surface support, and your wife’s desire for a softer surface comfort (related your experience with the BME soft) and see what recommendations they come up with. There wouldn’t be any contraindications for either of your BMI ranges for this mattress.

I’ll look forward to learning what you decide to do as you move forward.

Phoenix


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08 Apr 2017 12:12 #789 by Dr.Ake

Hit the nail on the head! Thanks, Phoenix. I'll post when things are moving in a new direction in a couple of weeks.

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08 Apr 2017 13:47 #790 by Phoenix

Hi Dr.Ake,

Looking forward to learning about your results!

Phoenix


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10 Apr 2017 05:45 #791 by DarkJojo

Well, I'm seriously debating on returning.

I bought this in Feb and not had a good night since.

I've even moved the mattress to the floor. but, that's not made my situation any better.

Would putting it on a bedframe make it work better or should I go ahead and do a return? I'm getting so frustrated. I can not find a bed that wont hurt my back and I don't have the money for a super expensive one. I have not had a good night sleep it's affecting my health now.

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10 Apr 2017 10:58 #792 by Phoenix

Hi DarkJojo,

Well, I'm seriously debating on returning.
I bought this in Feb and not had a good night since.
I've even moved the mattress to the floor. but, that's not made my situation any better.

I’m not sure how much of what you’re experiencing is due to your past poor set up underneath your mattress and how much might be due to your specific needs. In past posts, you stated you were placing your new mattresses on a 30+ year old box spring, then upon a 30+ year old box spring plus a coil mattress with springs poking through it, and now on the floor. I’m unsure if the mattress is directly upon the floor (which I’ve recommended in your situation) and if that is indeed the case how long you’ve been using that set up, as of February 13 you had stated that you were still using the old box spring and old mattress underneath your new mattress, which wouldn’t have given you too much time to properly test out your new mattress.

I’m also unsure which actual mattress you currently have. I know you had returned a Casper mattress but all you’ve mentioned is that you now have a Brooklyn Bedding product, but I don’t know which model, so I can’t offer any guidance without that information.

Would putting it on a bedframe make it work better or should I go ahead and do a return? I'm getting so frustrated. I can not find a bed that wont hurt my back and I don't have the money for a super expensive one. I have not had a good night sleep it's affecting my health now.

Using a bedframe would have no impact versus having the mattress directly upon the floor, and if your budget is limited you’d be better off putting your resources into any mattress you might be considering versus any sort of bedframe, and of course making sure that you are not using your old box spring or old mattress in any manner in combination with your new mattress, as these old components certainly would be contributing to the poor performance of any new mattress you have had, currently have, or may wish to consider.

I can do my best to provide some guidance, but I would need specific answers to:
- Your current exact mattress model?
- Is the mattress directly upon the floor?
- If so, how long have you been sleeping on the mattress with it being directly upon the floor?

Thanks!

Phoenix


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10 Apr 2017 14:28 #793 by DarkJojo

- Your current exact mattress model? The Full sized Medium.
- Is the mattress directly upon the floor? Yes, I've long since moved it to the floor.
- If so, how long have you been sleeping on the mattress with it being directly upon the floor? A week.

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11 Apr 2017 09:58 #794 by Phoenix

Hi DarkJojo,

- Your current exact mattress model? The Full sized Medium.
- Is the mattress directly upon the floor? Yes, I've long since moved it to the floor.
- If so, how long have you been sleeping on the mattress with it being directly upon the floor? A week.

Thank you for your updates. So you have a Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever in the Medium and you’ve been sleeping on it for a week on the floor (meaning the mattress is directly upon the floor with nothing underneath it).

As you’ve only had the mattress for a week on a “proper” flat surface that won’t impact the feel and cause it to give more than it should (which could exacerbate any back issues/pains that you may have), I would recommend that you try and test it out in this configuration for a few more weeks. The time you spent previously with the Casper mattress and the BME with the box spring and/or old mattress underneath them can’t be used as a reliable indicator of performance or comfort, as those underlying surfaces weren’t appropriate and wouldn’t have allowed you to gain a good analysis of how the products performed.

If you could, I would suggest sleeping upon the mattress for a few more weeks in this manner and see if you become more comfortable. You may have a bit of “learned alignment” for your older sleep system, which can take a few weeks to adjust when your body is presented with a product that provides the chance for a better or more neutral alignment.

There is some information about the many different symptoms/pains that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes behind them in post #2 here that may be helpful, but as you’re only one week into using the mattress on the floor I wouldn’t think that you’ve had a long enough time to truly acquire a good analysis to evaluate your current mattress, or have come up with enough good details to help point you in a new direction.

Hopefully you can use the mattress on the floor for a few more weeks and see if things get better for you, or if not then make a decision to move on to something else, but at least be armed with some better information to help you choose again.

Phoenix


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12 Apr 2017 21:05 - 12 Apr 2017 21:08 #795 by atomheartmother

Phoenix wrote: Hi atonheartmother,

<p class="tm-quote">Should I leave the fiberboard deck planks on or pull them off (foundation directly on the slats)? I suppose the decking really wouldn't be adding anything.</p>
I would leave them on, as in your bed set it seems as their primary purpose is to keep dust from getting to the contents of the items in the drawers under the bed.

<p class="tm-quote">Is there any value to replacing the slats with nice hardwood slats (the current ones are some painted plywood)? Or are they fine assuming they don't flex and don't break?</p>
If they’re performing well I would see no need to replace them at this time.

Phoenix


Thanks for the help. We've been using the US Box Spring with the mattress for a few weeks now. It's definitely an improvement and seems much more consistent and stable.

How much indentation/body impression should you expect to develop on the mattress? By morning (and probably earlier than that), there is a definitely noticeable body impression where I've been laying. If I slide to the middle of the bed (where just our 22 pound dog lays), there is a noticeable upslope.

The impression is still there even an hour later and seems to gradually go away over the day. By night, he impression is mostly gone. Maybe it's there slightly relative to the mostly unused middle.

Is this normal? It's not a huge issue unless the impression becomes more permanent or deeper.

The mattress does seem to firm over the course of the night as my body sinks in. Not much but it seems barely noticeable. Still, the mattress is already a bit firm for me, so it doesn't help. Is this normal?

Finally, are there recommendations for mattress toppers/pads or whatever their called? It doesn't look like BB makes them; though, I thought I read about people mentioning them. More softness in the comfort layers would make it more comfortable (kind of wishing we went with the BBE Soft).

Thanks!

Last Edit: 12 Apr 2017 21:08 by atomheartmother.

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