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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 08 Jun 2015 08:53 #1

Hello,

Fantastic website!

I am looking for some assistance as I am having difficulty choosing between two options. I am here In Australia being torn between a Heveya organic latex mattress and a Chiro Supreme 200 latex mattress from Natural Sleep, both mattresses containing 100% natural latex.

www.latexmattresswarehouse.com.au/home/29-heveya-organic-latex-mattress.html
naturalsleep.com.au/naturatex.html

Being environmentally minded I'd really like to purchase the Heveya organic mattress for sustainability reasons and have spent some time lying on both the soft and medium versions trying them out but despite both being fine, they lack the 'wow' factor of the regular Natural Sleep mattress, which is very comfortable.. My concern is the relative cheapness of the Natural Sleep mattress, which at $1295AUS is over a third cheaper than the cheapest Heveya (the soft version of the Heveya mattress is available for $200 cheaper than the medium Heveya) - I am worried about the durability of the Natural Sleep mattress. FYI the Natural Sleep mattress is marketed as "Progressive Feel Technology", which I presume is marketing speak for Dunlop progressive construction. The literature given to me by the Natural Sleep salesperson is that the latex is supplied by the Malaysian company Powerfoam Industries and I was told by the salesperson that the the mattress is then constructed in a local factory here in south-east Australia for Natural Sleep.

I am also concerned that there are virtually no reviews online of the Natural Sleep company, despite it operating in Australia for some time.

Another concern is that the quilting of the display mattress in-store consists of bamboo, polyester and a thin layer of foam. Fortunately, for no extra cost this quilting can be replaced by 100% natural cotton but there are no such mattresses in the showroom with the cotton quilting to see how the "feel" of the mattress will be affected.

As I am also approximately 120kg in weight (around 265 pounds) - and predominantly a side-sleeper - I am also a bit concerned that I shouldn't be leaning towards the soft Heveya mattress at all and am being swayed by the cheaper price being offered in comparison to the medium Heveya mattress.

I am also surprised that there are no reviews of the Heveya mattress on this website - it is being marketed as the world's only certified organic latex mattress, certainly here in Australia and, it appears, many websites online.

In addition to all this, I have never slept in a Latex bed before and have now decided to do so for health reasons (I have been diagnosed as being very allergic to house dust mites). As such, I have no real idea as to how I will adjust over time to sleeping in a latex bed.

Sorry for the number of questions but any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Jleb

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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 08 Jun 2015 11:06 #2

Hi jleb,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! all the way from down under :)

Hopefully I can help to clarify some of your concerns and provide some information that can help answer your questions.

First some of the "basics" ...

Just in case you haven't read it yet ... I would make sure that you've read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choice.

When you are in higher weight ranges then it would be more likely that you will need firmer materials than average, possibly a thicker mattress (depending on the specifics of the mattress), and you would need to put a greater emphasis on more durable materials as well. Post #3 here also has more information that would be helpful for those with larger or heavier body types.

The focus of the site is on the North American market and I'm not familiar with the Australian market but the materials the manufacturers there use are the same as North America and Europe. Outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences. the most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase is its construction and the quality/durability of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label. Post #2 here also includes links to most of the forum threads from Australia (I've added your topic to the list as well) and post #7 here includes a list of many Australian manufacturers and retailers and a few comments about some of them as well that will hopefully be helpful.

I am looking for some assistance as I am having difficulty choosing between two options. I am here In Australia being torn between a Heveya organic latex mattress and a Chiro Supreme 200 latex mattress from Natural Sleep, both mattresses containing 100% natural latex.

www.latexmattresswarehouse.com.au/home/2...-latex-mattress.html
naturalsleep.com.au/naturatex.html


There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

Being environmentally minded I'd really like to purchase the Heveya organic mattress for sustainability reasons and have spent some time lying on both the soft and medium versions trying them out but despite both being fine, they lack the 'wow' factor of the regular Natural Sleep mattress, which is very comfortable.. My concern is the relative cheapness of the Natural Sleep mattress, which at $1295AUS is over a third cheaper than the cheapest Heveya (the soft version of the Heveya mattress is available for $200 cheaper than the medium Heveya) - I am worried about the durability of the Natural Sleep mattress. FYI the Natural Sleep mattress is marketed as "Progressive Feel Technology", which I presume is marketing speak for Dunlop progressive construction. The literature given to me by the Natural Sleep salesperson is that the latex is supplied by the Malaysian company Powerfoam Industries and I was told by the salesperson that the the mattress is then constructed in a local factory here in south-east Australia for Natural Sleep.


The price of a mattress isn't necessarily indicative of the quality or durability of the materials and components inside it. You will often find a broad range of prices for mattresses between manufacturers and retailers that use very similar materials

Both of these mattresses use 100% natural Dunlop latex so in terms of the quality and durability of the materials they would be closely comparable. I would also keep in mind that first and foremost a mattress is a utilitarian purchase that has two main functions which is to keep your joints and back in good alignment and to relieve pressure in all your sleeping positions. Everything else is primarily a preference.

You can also read about some of the properties of "your perfect mattress" in post #2 here . A mattress is not supposed to "wow" you but to "disappear" underneath you so that you can sleep in good alignment, without pressure points, with good temperature and moisture regulation, and without restricting movement when you change position along with other preferences that are important to you. These are what lead to healthy sleep because when you are asleep you can't feel the "wow" ... and what your body needs to for deeper more healthy sleep is what is most important.

Comfort or "showroom feel" is very subjective and relative to the person and choosing the most suitable mattress based on comfort alone has less than even odds of choosing a suitable mattress (hopefully you read the study I linked earlier). This would be much like choosing foods based on taste alone regardless of their nutritional content so I would make sure that you test a mattress using the testing guidelines in the tutorial.

There is more about organic latex in post #6 here and more about organic certifications in post #2 here and the posts it links to but from a performance and durability perspective there is little to no difference between 100% natural Dunlop latex that is certified organic and 100% natural Dunlop latex that isn't outside of the certification itself and the additional costs that it adds to the material. Of course choosing certified organic materials can still be a personal preference or a lifestyle choice that can be important for some people and there are some "non performance" benefits that are part of the organic certification process as well (see post #3 here ).

"Progressive feel technology" just means that the layers of latex become progressively softer from the bottom to the top of the mattress.

Powerfoam Industries manufactures "finished sleep systems" and don't manufacture the actual latex itself although it's possible that they may also be a distributor for latex made by a different company.

I am also concerned that there are virtually no reviews online of the Natural Sleep company, despite it operating in Australia for some time.


Most of the focus on this site is on North American manufacturers so there isn't nearly as much mention about manufacturers that are outside of North America but a forum search on naturatex (you can just click the link) will bring up some comments and feedback about them.

I would be very cautious about using other people's experiences or reviews on a mattress though (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here ).

Another concern is that the quilting of the display mattress in-store consists of bamboo, polyester and a thin layer of foam. Fortunately, for no extra cost this quilting can be replaced by 100% natural cotton but there are no such mattresses in the showroom with the cotton quilting to see how the "feel" of the mattress will be affected.


A different mattress cover or quilting layers can certainly affect the feel and performance of a mattress so it would certainly be a valid concern if you decide to choose a mattress that is different from the one you tested. There is more about quilted vs unquilted mattress covers in post #12 here and the posts it links to.

There is also more information in post #2 here about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them and when you are considering a mattress that you haven't tested in person then the return/exchange policy would generally become a more important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase.

As I am also approximately 120kg in weight (around 265 pounds) - and predominantly a side-sleeper - I am also a bit concerned that I shouldn't be leaning towards the soft Heveya mattress at all and am being swayed by the cheaper price being offered in comparison to the medium Heveya mattress.


I would be very cautious about choosing a mattress that is too soft for your higher weight range as well because it can certainly be more risky in terms of alignment issues and I would make sure that you did some very careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that you aren't being unduly influenced by how "luxurious" a mattress feels or the "wow" factor and that the mattress really is a good "match" for you in terms of PPP.

I am also surprised that there are no reviews of the Heveya mattress on this website - it is being marketed as the world's only certified organic latex mattress, certainly here in Australia and, it appears, many websites online.


Again it's not unusual that a manufacturer outside of North America isn't mentioned on the site although a forum search on latexmattresswarehouse or an exact term site search on latex mattress warehouse (you can just click both links) will also bring up some comments and feedback about them as well.

As you've read they are certainly not the only supplier of mattresses that use certified organic latex.

In addition to all this, I have never slept in a Latex bed before and have now decided to do so for health reasons (I have been diagnosed as being very allergic to house dust mites). As such, I have no real idea as to how I will adjust over time to sleeping in a latex bed.


Unfortunately this is something that only you can answer based on your own sleeping experience but if you've done some careful testing on latex mattresses and you like how they feel and perform in a showroom then the odds are much higher high that you will do well with it when you sleep on it as well. There is also more information about dust mites and allergies in post #2 here that may also be useful.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 09 Jun 2015 02:40 #3

Hi Phoenix

I am absolutely blown away by the thoroughness and speed of your response - you provide an astonishing service and I am truly grateful. Thank you.

I had read through your mattress shopping tutorial and many of the linked posts and must apologise for the imprecision of my language in my hasty post. The 'wow' factor I described when lying on the Natural Sleep mattress did primarily refer to the comfort I felt but I ought to have added that there also seemed to be good alignment without pressure points and with no movement restriction. You've allayed some of my fears by stating that as it and the Heveya mattress are both 100% Dunlop latex there would be little difference between the two in terms of quality and durability (FYI this goes against the advice of the Heveya salesperson, who, unsurprisingly, repeatedly stated that the Belgian LatexCo, which is the parent company behind Heveya, provide a far superior product to Malaysian latex companies). I have to admit that the soft Heveya mattress was comfortable but did not provide much underlying support, which is, as you state, a concern for someone of my size, while the medium Heveya, although providing much greater support, also produced what I thought was a bit of a "pinching" sensation between my shoulders which I felt for a short while after leaving the store and spending a couple of hours alternating between the soft and medium Heveya mattresses. This is obviously not a good sign - my preference for the "greener" organic Heveya latex is, it appears, clouding my judgement when it comes to the actual point of a good mattress.

I will try the Natural Sleep company mattress again to be sure that it is the mattress for me. As you confirmed it is a concern that I won't be able to try the 100% cotton quilting but I really don't want to proceed with the 'bamboo" (if that is what it is), polyester and foam quilting, which I would have thought would affect the breathability of the mattress and hence its heat regulation. This is important for me as I suffer from eczema (which is why I want a latex mattress in order to avoid house dust mites) and don't wish it to be aggravated by excessive heat. I was shown a cross-section of the quilting by the salesperson (which reminds me of another concern, that the mattress is fully contained with no zipping so the latex and quilting cannot be accessed), which revealed a very thin 'bamboo' top layer (the ticking?), quite a bit of polyester filling (maybe 2 inches?) and then a layer of foam of less than half an inch. When the whole quilting is compressed by pinching it is comes to less than half an inch. The other alternative offered for the quilting is Thermoplast Outlast, which seems to be mostly marketing hype as evidenced by mixed reviews online. There are some mattresses in-store with the Outlast quilting but unfortunately not on the one I am thinking of purchasing. Again, because of my skin condition I prefer natural fibres for the quilting.

Thank you also for pointing out the references to Naturatex elsewhere. However, my original concern remains that there are simply no reviews by Australian customers of their experiences dealing with Natural Sleep. As it is a company that has been established in Australia since 2005 I find this very odd.

Also, you state that "progressive technology" means that the layers of latex become progressively softer from the top to the bottom of the mattress. It doesn't become firmer?

Again, I am simply astounded by your the quality and speed of your advice - if only every other consumer area provided a service like yours!

Once more, many thanks, and I greatly look foreword to any further advice you could supply.

Kind regards,'
Jleb

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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 09 Jun 2015 10:40 #4

Hi jleb,

You've allayed some of my fears by stating that as it and the Heveya mattress are both 100% Dunlop latex there would be little difference between the two in terms of quality and durability (FYI this goes against the advice of the Heveya salesperson, who, unsurprisingly, repeatedly stated that the Belgian LatexCo, which is the parent company behind Heveya, provide a far superior product to Malaysian latex companies).


If they are both the same type and blend of latex then they would be closely comparable in terms of durability and both of them would be durable choices. Outside of the durability of the material itself ... firmness also plays a secondary role in durability and firmer latex would be more durable than softer latex although I certainly wouldn't choose a firmer mattress that wasn't a good "match" for you in terms of PPP just for the sake of any additional durability since you would end up with a durable mattress that you wouldn't sleep well on for many years. Of course it's not surprising that a manufacturer says that their latex is the "best" but this is also coming from the same source of information that told you they were the only latex in the world that was certified organic which also isn't accurate.

I will try the Natural Sleep company mattress again to be sure that it is the mattress for me. As you confirmed it is a concern that I won't be able to try the 100% cotton quilting but I really don't want to proceed with the 'bamboo" (if that is what it is), polyester and foam quilting, which I would have thought would affect the breathability of the mattress and hence its heat regulation.


While it's certainly not a natural or organic product ... polyfoam that is used for quilting is generally quite breathable and for most people it wouldn't be an issue in terms of airflow and temperature regulation. Wool quilting in a cover would be more temperature regulating yet of course but would also be more costly. Rayon made from bamboo is a "semi synthetic" fiber and is also very breathable and moisture absorbent and has good temperature regulation as well.

This is important for me as I suffer from eczema (which is why I want a latex mattress in order to avoid house dust mites) and don't wish it to be aggravated by excessive heat.


The most effective dust mite control strategy is a "multi pronged" approach that includes an allergy encasement for your mattress, pillows, and foundation, and a mattress protector that can easily be removed and washed in water hot enough to kill dust mites, in combination with other dust mite control methods that can help as well (such as humidity control in the home, regular vacuuming of surfaces that can provide a home for dust mites including any carpets, air filtration etc. Dust mites feed on skin flakes and take their moisture from the air and an allergy encasement prevents the food they require from reaching the mattress cover where they tend to live and lowering humidity deprives them of the moisture that they require from the air.

I was shown a cross-section of the quilting by the salesperson (which reminds me of another concern, that the mattress is fully contained with no zipping so the latex and quilting cannot be accessed), which revealed a very thin 'bamboo' top layer (the ticking?), quite a bit of polyester filling (maybe 2 inches?) and then a layer of foam of less than half an inch.


If a mattress contains more than "about an inch or so" of polyester fiber and/or polyfoam on top of the latex in the quilting or in the comfort layers then it can be subject to premature breakdown and impressions which can be a weak link in the mattress (see the quality/durability guidelines here ). While "some" quilting can add to the comfort or "feel" of a mattress for those who prefer it (and many do) ... if there is too much it can be a durability issue.

The other alternative offered for the quilting is Thermoplast Outlast, which seems to be mostly marketing hype as evidenced by mixed reviews online. There are some mattresses in-store with the Outlast quilting but unfortunately not on the one I am thinking of purchasing. Again, because of my skin condition I prefer natural fibres for the quilting.


If this is still a thick layer of synthetic fiber in combination with polyfoam then it could still be a weak link in the mattress. Outlast phase change materials either in synthetic fibers or in fabrics does have phase change properties so it would have "some effect" on temperature regulation but this tends to be more temporary rather than over the entire course of the night. The most reliable and long lasting method of temperature regulation is ventilation and moisture management In a mattress. Temperature regulation comes from the combined effect of all the layers and components that are closest to your skin which would include the mattress cover/quilting, any mattress encasement and mattress protector you are using, your sheets and bedding, and your bedclothes. There is more about the many variables that can effect temperature regulation in post #2 here .

Having said all that ... if I was in your shoes though I would probably also be leaning towards natural fibers in the cover and quilting materials (as well as in my sheets). Wool quilting in particular is among the most effective temperature regulators.

Thank you also for pointing out the references to Naturatex elsewhere. However, my original concern remains that there are simply no reviews by Australian customers of their experiences dealing with Natural Sleep. As it is a company that has been established in Australia since 2005 I find this very odd.


In my North American research I often come across smaller local companies (usually that don't sell online and don't have online customers) have been in business for decades and don't have any online reviews either and sell their mattresses mainly by local word of mouth although I agree that in the internet age this is rather uncommon.

Also, you state that "progressive technology" means that the layers of latex become progressively softer from the top to the bottom of the mattress. It doesn't become firmer?


Oops ... this was a typo and should have said "progressively softer from the bottom to the top of the mattress". I've corrected it and thanks for catching my mistake :)

Once more, many thanks, and I greatly look foreword to any further advice you could supply.


The "best" advice I can provide is to ...

1. Make sure you do some very careful testing so that you are confident that any mattress you are considering is a good match for you in terms of PPP. This is about how well you will likely sleep on the mattress.

2. Make sure you know the specifics of every layer in a mattress and that the information you are given about all the layers and components adds up to the thickness of the mattress so you can confirm that there are no lower quality materials or "weak links" in the mattress in terms of durability. This is about long you are likely to sleep well on a mattress.

3. If in spite of your testing you aren't confident that the mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of PPP then I would pay particular attention to the exchange/return options that are available to you although I would also keep in mind that the cost of return/exchange policies are built into the cost of the mattress so the people that don't return a mattress are the ones who pay for the ones that do.

4. When you are down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and you have confirmed that they are suitable for you in terms of PPP none of them have any weak links or lower quality materials in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that either of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, their prices, the options you have after a purchase to change the firmness or exchange or return the mattress, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

5. I would also put significant "value" on the experience and knowledge of the store you are buying from and the guidance they are able to provide you. Some stores focus more on "educating" their customers and others focus more on "selling" their customers and who you purchase from can often be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 11 Jun 2015 02:46 #5

Hi Phoenix

Once again, thank you for all your invaluable information.

The bamboo/polyester/foam quilting is certainly more than an inch and as you state this could mean a weakness in the mattress. When I enquired with the salesperson that I was considering the 100% natural cotton quilting she actually advised me against getting the bamboo quilting as she has said she has had customers call back after 3 or 4 years asking why their mattress has now a body indentation! A sample of the Outlast quilting I was shown consists of the thin Outlast material with a further thin backing material of only a quarter of an inch or so of synthetic mesh. I think I will, though, take a punt with the 100% natural cotton quilting - the salesperson told me that this quite a common request. She showed me what the quilting will be made of by presenting a similar item from the supplier, a local company called Rosy Bedding. I think this is similar to what I was shown:
www.rosybedding.com.au/products_detail/&productId=bb07c1ce-ccab-47d5-9315-3bc4c241b15f.html

It will be quite plain and thin and will of course provide a different "feel" to what I have been lying on in-store. However, as the salesperson suggested this will provide a more unmediated access to the properties of the latex (?).

Also, FYI, the wool quilting you suggest as a good alternative is not on offer. Besides, wool aggravates eczema so I don't believe it would be ideal having this near my skin.

As you may surmise, I did go back to Natural Sleep and try out the mattress once more, this time for about 30 minutes, both on my side and on my back. I'm again satisfied that there are no pressure points and my spine is well supported. For contrast I tried the next model up which has 24cms of latex instead of the 20cms I have in mind, and felt the same with my previously tries, namely that I feel that with this mattress I am lying "on top" of the mattress.

It appears that the 20cm Natural Sleep mattress might then be the mattress for me. This is despite the fact that Natural Sleep are having a "40% off sale", which is the kind of thing that I have read you rail against, to which I concur. However, the salesperson at no time pressured me to buy immediately because of this "sale" - she in fact stated that the "sale" had only just begun so there was no issue with time. I was open with her that I was now down to the Natural Sleep mattress and the Heveya organic mattress from a competitor, to which she responded by outlining the benefits of the mattress she had an offer but that she could not compete with a much more expensive organic mattress from Europe if that was the route I wished to go down. Natural Sleep is also very customisable regarding any changes to the mattress and base I would like to make as the factory is actually located behind the store! I was informed that the large latex sheets come from Epoh in Malaysia and they then cut the latex to size in the factory and assemble the mattress according to the customer's order. The salesperson added that I was free to watch my mattress being assembled in the factory, with hard hat and fluoro vest on, so I could be satisfied that the mattress was being made in accordance with my wishes! In line with my values, making a purchase supporting a "local" business in this way would go some way in offsetting my concerns with not buying organic.

Both Natural Sleep and the Latex Mattress Warehouse have been very knowledgeable and forthcoming with information on their mattresses, in stark contrast with many of the chain stores I had quickly dropped into for comparison. However, I must add that both have been largely silent when it comes to which mattress would be best for me (apart from, when prompted, the one comment stating that as firm a mattress as possible would be best) leaving it to myself when it comes to trying out the mattresses. Your comments/posts on this website as what to look for have then been of great importance, although as I am shopping by myself it's of course difficult to be certain about spinal alignment without someone else there to apply the tests you have outlined.

Finally, it's worth adding that Natural Sleep do not allow exchanges or returns after purchase but this has been the case with all the stores I have made enquiries with. I should note that I'm very uneasy about buying mattresses online without having tried them first.

Thanks again for your great advice, Phoenix, it really is greatly appreciated. I look forward to any further comments you might have and I'll let you know how I proceed.

Regards,
jleb

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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 11 Jun 2015 08:42 #6

Hi jleb,

The bamboo/polyester/foam quilting is certainly more than an inch and as you state this could mean a weakness in the mattress. When I enquired with the salesperson that I was considering the 100% natural cotton quilting she actually advised me against getting the bamboo quilting as she has said she has had customers call back after 3 or 4 years asking why their mattress has now a body indentation! A sample of the Outlast quilting I was shown consists of the thin Outlast material with a further thin backing material of only a quarter of an inch or so of synthetic mesh. I think I will, though, take a punt with the 100% natural cotton quilting - the salesperson told me that this quite a common request. She showed me what the quilting will be made of by presenting a similar item from the supplier, a local company called Rosy Bedding. I think this is similar to what I was shown:
www.rosybedding.com.au/products_detail/&...15-3bc4c241b15f.html

It will be quite plain and thin and will of course provide a different "feel" to what I have been lying on in-store. However, as the salesperson suggested this will provide a more unmediated access to the properties of the latex (?).


The quilting material is most likely the polyester fiber and the "bamboo" is probably the fabric that they use for the mattress cover which would be rayon made from bamboo although it's possible that bamboo fibers are also used in the quilting material. Either way though if a quilting layer is too thick it can certainly lead to premature impressions in a mattress.

A thinner quilting material that isn't thick enough to lead to significant impressions (about an inch or so or less) wouldn't be a weak link in a mattress and can provide a surface feel that many people like compared to to sleeping more directly on a resilient material like latex. This is always a personal preference and some people prefer quilted covers and some prefer thinner covers and being closer to the latex.

Also, FYI, the wool quilting you suggest as a good alternative is not on offer. Besides, wool aggravates eczema so I don't believe it would be ideal having this near my skin.


While it would be a moot point if it's not available ... "rough wool" can aggravate eczema if it's against the skin but softer wool that is less "prickly" and that isn't directly against the skin (in a quilting layer with the mattress cover, a mattress protector, and your sheets on top of it) would be very unlikely to causes issues.

It appears that the 20cm Natural Sleep mattress might then be the mattress for me. This is despite the fact that Natural Sleep are having a "40% off sale", which is the kind of thing that I have read you rail against, to which I concur. However, the salesperson at no time pressured me to buy immediately because of this "sale" - she in fact stated that the "sale" had only just begun so there was no issue with time.


I would guess that this sale is probably a "permanent" form of advertising that never really ends but only changes its name from time to time.

Natural Sleep is also very customisable regarding any changes to the mattress and base I would like to make as the factory is actually located behind the store!


I'm not sure if you are referring to the mattress being customizable before a purchase or after it as well but if they can make some "fine tuning" adjustments after a purchase by changing a layer in the mattress if your sleeping experience indicates that this is necessary then this can be just as effective as an exchange policy and because they are only replacing a single layer it would also add less to the cost of a mattress than exchanging a whole mattress.

Both Natural Sleep and the Latex Mattress Warehouse have been very knowledgeable and forthcoming with information on their mattresses, in stark contrast with many of the chain stores I had quickly dropped into for comparison. However, I must add that both have been largely silent when it comes to which mattress would be best for me (apart from, when prompted, the one comment stating that as firm a mattress as possible would be best) leaving it to myself when it comes to trying out the mattresses.


This means that they are being honest and most experienced manufacturers are well aware that you are also the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal testing or sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). A knowledgeable and experienced retailer/manufacturer can certainly provide good guidance but in the end you are the only one that can really know whether any mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of PPP.

Finally, it's worth adding that Natural Sleep do not allow exchanges or returns after purchase but this has been the case with all the stores I have made enquiries with. I should note that I'm very uneasy about buying mattresses online without having tried them first.


A return or exchange policy is less important with a local manufacturer where you can test a mattress in person before you purchase it but an online purchase can be much more risky than a local purchase without having good options after a purchase just in case in spite of "best efforts" your mattress doesn't turn out to be as suitable a "match" for you in terms of PPP as you hoped for. If your previous comments meant that they can exchange a layer if you need it then this would be similar to having an exchange policy and it would add much less to the cost of the mattress. If this isn't a possibility then the only caution I would suggest is to err on the side of firmness because you can always make a mattress that is too firm softer by adding a topper but it's much more difficult to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer without removing and replacing the layers that are too soft.

Thanks again for your great advice, Phoenix, it really is greatly appreciated. I look forward to any further comments you might have and I'll let you know how I proceed.


I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding :)

Phoenix
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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 11 Jun 2015 09:58 #7

Hi Phoenix

Thanks again for your wonderful advice.

I should have been more precise in my language concerning how customisable Natural Sleep are with their mattresses - I was intending to state that they appear to be very accommodating with my order before purchase. However, based on your comments I might just ask them what can be done after the mattress has been assembled!

At the risk of backtracking on my comments about not shopping online ... I was hoping to quickly get your opinion on this offer I have stumbled across by Latex Bedding Co, which appears too good to be true for the price-conscious shopper. The Revor Euro bed mattress is 100% LatexCo latex and is the same price as the Natural Sleep mattress; they provide an organic cotton cover that is zip-off washable (is being able to remove a mattress cover to wash an important selling point?); they throw in a free base, free bamboo linen and free latex pillow; they appear to have solid reviews online concerning customer service and, although it's not entirely clear to me, they have a 6 month trial policy which appears to suggest that for a fee of $200 plus delivery and pick-up the mattress can be returned (I will chase this up to clarify):

www.latexbeddingco.com.au/product/euro-king-single-bargain-package
www.latexbeddingco.com.au/product/euro
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QLd7pjNnaM

The answer, though, may be fairly straightforward - as discovered by one of the contributors to this forum the Euro would not be 100% natural latex, as only one of the mattresses Latex Bedding Co stock, the Synchroline III, meets this criteria:. www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/11692-full-latex-mattress-in-sydney.html?start=15

I will also ask the store what percentage the Euro consists of.

The Latex Australia Warehouse where I tried the Heveya organic mattress also had another mattress that I tried that is 85% natural latex and 15% synthetic - is there an "acceptable" level of synthetic latex that a mattress can harbour before its performance is greatly affected?

Thanks again,
jleb

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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 11 Jun 2015 11:17 #8

Hi jleb,

At the risk of backtracking on my comments about not shopping online ... I was hoping to quickly get your opinion on this offer I have stumbled across by Latex Bedding Co, which appears too good to be true for the price-conscious shopper. The Revor Euro bed mattress is 100% LatexCo latex and is the same price as the Natural Sleep mattress; they provide an organic cotton cover that is zip-off washable (is being able to remove a mattress cover to wash an important selling point?); they throw in a free base, free bamboo linen and free latex pillow; they appear to have solid reviews online concerning customer service and, although it's not entirely clear to me, they have a 6 month trial policy which appears to suggest that for a fee of $200 plus delivery and pick-up the mattress can be returned (I will chase this up to clarify):


There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses.

There is also more information in post #2 here about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them.

The "risk" of a mattress purchase and your confidence that it's a good "match" for you in terms of PPP can be a significant part of its "value" and a local purchase that you have tested in person but is say 20% to 25% more than a very similar mattress that is sold online for many people may be equivalent "value" depending on all the parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them.

I would also make sure that you know all the specifics of all the layers and components in any mattress you purchase so that you can make more meaningful "apples to apples" comparisons between mattresses (see this article ).

The main benefits of a zip cover are that it can give you access to the individual layers inside a mattress and if they are loose layers that can be easily removed (which is the case with many component latex mattresses) then you would have the ability to replace individual layers instead of the complete mattress if one of the layers softens or breaks down before the others (usually the softer top layer) or if your individual needs and preferences change over time. Of course if the internal layers are glued and they can't be replaced individually then this benefit of a zip cover wouldn't be important.

Secondary benefits include the ability to wash the cover (although with a suitable mattress protector this isn't really necessary and vacuuming and spot cleaning when necessary is normally fine) and the ability to replace the cover if it wears out before the layers and components in the mattress.

There is more about the pros and cons of zip covers and loose layers vs a non zip or tape edged cover with glued layers in post #2 here and the more detailed posts it links to.

The Latex Australia Warehouse where I tried the Heveya organic mattress also had another mattress that I tried that is 85% natural latex and 15% synthetic - is there an "acceptable" level of synthetic latex that a mattress can harbour before its performance is greatly affected?


There is more about the different types and blends of latex and some of the pros and cons of each of them in post #6 here and there is more about the properties of natural vs synthetic rubber in post #2 here . All latex (Dunlop or Talalay made with natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) is a good quality, durable, and "safe" material relative to other types of foam materials but they each have different properties and a different "feel" so some people tend to prefer different types and blends over others either for "feel and performance" reasons of because of budget limitations (latex with higher percentages of synthetic rubber are generally less costly than latex with higher percentages of natural rubber).

Once you are down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and you are confident that they would all be a suitable choice in terms of PPP and none of them have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, their prices, the options you have after a purchase to change the firmness or exchange or return the mattress, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 29 Jul 2015 06:01 #9

Hi again Phoenix,

It's been a little while, almost a couple of months, now, since I last communicated with you. You mentioned in one of your last replies that you'd like to know which mattress I decided upon and after much, much deliberation (and for complicated reasons I won't go into here) I purchased the soft Heveya organic latex mattress. This was almost a month ago..

I would like to say that it turned out to be a successful choice but unfortunately, despite falling asleep with no problems, I wake up with sore shoulders and upper back, with a tight, tense chest, which lasts all day. My lower back is for the most part fine. I have spoken to the retailer, who has been puzzled by my predicament, and after thinking about the issue he has offered to replace the 15cm medium Heveya base with another of his range, the 15cm medium Eurozone ( www.latexmattresswarehouse.com.au/home/28-eurozone-premium-medium.html ), with the soft Heveya 5cm upper layer remaining, to see if that will improve matters - unfortunately he does not have in stock a medium Heveya in my bed size to replace the soft upper layer with (which he tells me would take 6-8 weeks to order in).

In the meantime I had spoken to a friend of mine who is a chiropractor - discussing the matter with her (over the phone, not in person) she believes the issue could be my pillow. Before speaking with her I had experimented with different pillows in my household (all of the soft variety) without any improvement and she has prompted me to get a contoured pillow, which I had never tried before. The first night using the higher side (14.5cms) of the High Contour foam pillow I had purchased, designed for side sleepers - which I don't find to be particularly comfortable as it is a much firmer pillow than I am used to - resulted in even worse sore shoulders, upper back and chest. The following night, sleeping on the lower side of the contoured pillow (13 cms) has improved matters slightly but I still wake up with the same symptoms. In the meantime, I have informed the retailer that I am currently trying a new pillow to see if that will help and will call him back this week to let him know if I would like to proceed with replacing the Heveya base as outlined above, for a trial period.

My chiropractor friend has echoed the many comments I have heard and read elsewhere that it can take anywhere from 6-8 weeks to adjust to a new bed and, for that matter, to a new pillow. As it has now been 4 weeks since I purchased the mattress this could just mean it is simply a matter of time for my body to adjust. The retailer thus far has been very helpful and accommodating. It might instead require some experimentation with different latex layers to see what will work but I was hoping to get get your opinion on these matters - as always, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
jleb

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Australian dilemma - Heveya vs Natural Sleep latex mattress 29 Jul 2015 11:04 #10

Hi jleb,

I'm sorry to hear that your mattress purchase hasn't turned out as well as you hoped for (at least so far).

There is more detailed information about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here .

There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel".

These posts are the "tools" that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body's language and "translate" what your body is trying to tell you so you can make the types of changes or additions to your mattress that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any "symptoms" you are experiencing or decide whether to replace or exchange your mattress.

Your Chiropractor friend is right that one of the most common causes of upper body "symptoms" is a pillow issue.

They are also right that there is a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress as well and for some people or some mattresses it can be a little longer than for others (see post #3 here ).

If your symptoms don't resolve themselves over the course of the next week or two with changing pillows then it would certainly be worthwhile testing the zoned support core to see how your sleeping experience changes.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.
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