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I have another question this time regarding the Novosbed firm. The mattress layers and densities are:
2" - 2.5lb / 22 IFD - 5th generation open-cell pneumatic memory foam
1" - 2.5lb / 22 IFD - 5th generation open-cell pneumatic memory foam
1" - 4 lb / 11 IFD - 5th-Generation high-density visco-elastic memory foam
7" - 1.75 lb / 38 IFD - Premium support foam
Am I missing something or are the two top layers significantly under the recommended foam density for durability for average and heavy BMIs?
I know Novosbed is a trusted member on this site so I'm curious why that is if they offer this particular model of mattress that uses low quality foam densities.
You are correct the 3" of 2.5lb memory foam is lower than our durability guidelines. So we at TMU would be cautious about the long term durability of these memory foam components, assuming all you quoted information is correct.
Here's the thing, I have felt many samples over the years of some great 2.5 and 3.0lb memory foam, and I know some of these mfgrs. make these beds and they feel great to a lot of people, but long term durability is sometimes sacrificed when trying to hit a certain cost and feel. It's not a bad bed, but for high BMI's TMU advises caution.
Novosbed is not listed as one of our trusted members.
I was looking at the Novaform Serafina Pearl Firm mattress sold by Costco. The breakdown of the layers are:
2'' Gel memory foam - 3lbs density
3'' Air channel foam - 5lbs density
9'' Support foam - 2lb density
The bottom two layers seem to be of high quality but I'm wondering about the first. I know TMU guidelines recommends against 3lbs or lower density for an inch or so of memory foam, so I'm wondering if the memory foam layer in this mattress would be low quality for someone with an average BMI/weight?
I'd also like to ask about this Springwall mattress:
The layers listed are:
12.7 cm (5 in.) high-density bio support foam
7.6 cm (3 in.) high-density trizone bio plush comfort foam
5.1 cm (2 in.) natural gel latex (Talalay Latex)
2.5 cm (1 in.) MDI CocoBreeze Foam
Unfortunately the densities aren't available. When I asked Springwall directly they told me, "the foam densities are high because this product is roll packed and it needs high density foam to bounce back". I thought that was odd because there's a lot of roll packed mattresses that use low foam density so that's not necessarily true, and I thought Springwall had a reputation for being transparent about their mattresses. I also asked whether the mattress is firm or medium-firm because the product page I linked states both (description sates med-firm while the image states med).
They told me to ask the retailer if I wanted more info. Again, I found that odd since as the manufacturer they should be able to clarify that for me and indicate foam densities.
Anyways, would you or phoenix be able to speak to this mattress? I know in the past Phoenix has had contact with some managers from Springwall, so I thought maybe he would have some insight into this mattress.
Thank you for the question. Regarding the Novaform Serafina mattress at Costco, it's great to see that you are referencing the mattress durability guidelines . Well done on your knowledge and understanding of these guidelines. I took a look at the Costco Novaform Serafina Memory Foam mattress and the specifications listed on the website are as follows:
“Top layer: 5.1 cm (2 in.) layer of new ComfortLuxe® Gel-Pearl for cooling comfort and support
Middle layer: 7.6 cm (3 in.) layer of LURAcor™ foam which cradles less and pushes back more, for individualized weight distribution and support, and a firm feel
Bottom layer: 22.9 cm (9 in) layer of support foam offers durability and deep support”
Were you able to confirm from Novaform / Costco that the densities you mention as the exact densities? Generally speaking, the densities listed in your post for average BMI would be right on the border. Depending on the type of sleeper one is, very active sleepers tend to wear out mattresses faster than ones that move around less. The other factor for the “product” you listed would be the ILD/IFD’s of the 5lb and 3lb comfort layers. Of course, one’s budget comes into play here also, for some people they are ok with
Regarding the Springwall product, all of the Costco links for this product are no longer listed. Also the same issue for the Springwall website . Neither site lists Natural Luxury 11 inch product anymore, so it’s difficult to make any specific judgments.
You are correct that many lower density foams do bounce back, but I can’t fault Springwall for touting the use of high-density foam for durability. Maybe they are trying too hard to link this to roll packing mattresses, but it seems like it’s one of those things people would say over the phone, almost like they have an answer to questions they think people are worried about.
Regarding the picture saying medium and the description saying medium - firm, it can be a little tricky as Costco does sign off on the photos, as it is the manufacturer that usually provides the marketing materials, but this could be an administrative error, unfortunate yes and unlikely in this case that they are trying to “pull one over” on consumers.
Thank you again and let us know if you have any updated information on the specs.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Avocado natural cotton covers actually contain polyester? Michael of Design Sleep told me that, but I have not been able to confirm it. Why would he tell me that if it's not true?
I do not have any first-hand knowledge regarding this particular cover. . It will say what the construction of the fabric is on their law tag. Avocado does have la lot ofl inks to certifications on their site.
Regarding the GOTS certification, textile products only need to have a minimum of 70%, quote below from the webiste - www.global-standard.org/the-standard.html , so its makes perfect sense that it may have some polyester, it's really hard to get the "stretch" needed on knitted fabric with just cotton.
Only textile products that contain a minimum of 70% organic fibres can become GOTS certified. All chemical inputs such as dyestuffs and auxiliaries used must meet certain environmental and toxicological criteria. The choice of accessories is limited in accordance with ecological aspects as well. A functional waste water treatment plant is mandatory for any wet-processing unit involved and all processors must comply with social criteria. The key criteria of GOTS, its quality assurance system and the principles of the review and revision procedure are summarised in this section.
Looking for a queen mattress for two, and it's looking like Brooklyn Bedding as they have a pretty good sale going on right now.
What's the biggest difference between the "Signature" and "Bowery Hybrid"? The price gap is about $100, and it seems like the only difference is the top layer material?
We are both mostly side and some front sleepers, so I'm wondering if there's any reason to get the Signature over the Bowery Hybrid.
Welcome to the forum .
Thanks for the post. What did Brooklyn Bedding tell you the difference is? There as been some discussion of these new mattresses since Q4 2018.
Below are my cut and paste from their website. The signature has the 2" Titanflex, which is one of the newer memory/poly foams. You can read more about the newer generation of new generations of polyfoams here.
The signature has the 2" Titanflex and 2" Energex foam, and the Bowery hybrid just has the 2" comfort foam (whatever that is) and also foam in the quilt package. Signature also markets some temperature regulating qualities. Clearly, there is a fairly big difference between these two products. I have not slept on them side by side. Which one is better for you is an entirely different question. Have you tried these mattresses?
Offered in three levels of firmness to let you decide the level of support you need
Features a 2" top layer of patented TitanFlex™ foam, combining all the contouring properties of memory foam with the responsiveness of latex
Designed with a 2" layer of firmer transitional Energex™ foam for deeper compression support
Engineered with a 6" base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer
Infused with cooling TitaniumGel™ to moderate your body temperature throughout the sleep experience
Finished with a 1" high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils
Offered in a universal, medium firmness that balances just the right amount of pressure point relief with optimal support
Features a 1” layer of quilted, gel memory foam that resists body impressions and provides optimal cooling comfort while you sleep.
Designed with a 2” layer of comfort foam to create a gentler transition to the mattress core.
Features open cell technology for increased airflow and breathability.
Engineered with a 6” base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer.
Finished with a 1” high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils.
Thanks let us know if you have other questions.
Thanks for the response!
I have not tried them as there's not a showroom for them near me, however, in contacting support, they pointed me towards the Bowery Hybrid as they claim it's more suitable to combo sleepers, which my partner and I would likely qualify as.
We are coming from a 6ish year old Tempurpedic with gel top that has starting to feel too firm, causing shoulder and hip pain. So a softer hybrid mattress made sense after I stayed at a relatives house and slept on a more traditional innerspring and slept great.
Ultimately, the price would come out to about $150 cheaper for the Bowery Hybrid which has me about ready to pull the trigger on it. I've heard good things about Brooklyn Bedding and had no such luck finding a similarly priced, quality, hybrid mattress.
Thanks for the response and the additional info, re; Tempurpedic. It is so hard to comment on soft plush and firm, as everyone's definition is relative to each individual. Let us know if you have any additional questions and give us an update after you have some time adjusting to your new mattress.