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27 Jan 2019 10:44 #231 by Caeser
I have another question this time regarding the Novosbed firm. The mattress layers and densities are:

Firm:

2" - 2.5lb / 22 IFD - 5th generation open-cell pneumatic memory foam

1" - 2.5lb / 22 IFD - 5th generation open-cell pneumatic memory foam

1" - 4 lb / 11 IFD - 5th-Generation high-density visco-elastic memory foam

7" - 1.75 lb / 38 IFD - Premium support foam

Am I missing something or are the two top layers significantly under the recommended foam density for durability for average and heavy BMIs?

I know Novosbed is a trusted member on this site so I'm curious why that is if they offer this particular model of mattress that uses low quality foam densities.

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28 Jan 2019 07:53 #232 by Sensei
Hi Caesar,

You are correct the 3" of 2.5lb memory foam is lower than our durability guidelines. So we at TMU would be cautious about the long term durability of these memory foam components, assuming all you quoted information is correct.

Here's the thing, I have felt many samples over the years of some great 2.5 and 3.0lb memory foam, and I know some of these mfgrs. make these beds and they feel great to a lot of people, but long term durability is sometimes sacrificed when trying to hit a certain cost and feel. It's not a bad bed, but for high BMI's TMU advises caution.

Novosbed is not listed as one of our trusted members.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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22 Feb 2019 15:00 - 22 Feb 2019 17:50 #233 by Caeser
Hi again,

I was looking at the Novaform Serafina Pearl Firm mattress sold by Costco. The breakdown of the layers are:

2'' Gel memory foam - 3lbs density
3'' Air channel foam - 5lbs density
9'' Support foam - 2lb density

The bottom two layers seem to be of high quality but I'm wondering about the first. I know TMU guidelines recommends against 3lbs or lower density for an inch or so of memory foam, so I'm wondering if the memory foam layer in this mattress would be low quality for someone with an average BMI/weight?

I'd also like to ask about this Springwall mattress:
www.costco.ca/Springwall-Natural-Luxury-...oduct.100412523.html

The layers listed are:

12.7 cm (5 in.) high-density bio support foam
7.6 cm (3 in.) high-density trizone bio plush comfort foam
5.1 cm (2 in.) natural gel latex (Talalay Latex)
2.5 cm (1 in.) MDI CocoBreeze Foam

Unfortunately the densities aren't available. When I asked Springwall directly they told me, "the foam densities are high because this product is roll packed and it needs high density foam to bounce back". I thought that was odd because there's a lot of roll packed mattresses that use low foam density so that's not necessarily true, and I thought Springwall had a reputation for being transparent about their mattresses. I also asked whether the mattress is firm or medium-firm because the product page I linked states both (description sates med-firm while the image states med).

They told me to ask the retailer if I wanted more info. Again, I found that odd since as the manufacturer they should be able to clarify that for me and indicate foam densities.

Anyways, would you or phoenix be able to speak to this mattress? I know in the past Phoenix has had contact with some managers from Springwall, so I thought maybe he would have some insight into this mattress.

Thanks.
Last edit: 22 Feb 2019 17:50 by Caeser.

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28 Feb 2019 18:57 - 28 Feb 2019 18:58 #234 by Phoenix
Hi Cesar,

Thank you for the question. Regarding the Novaform Serafina mattress at Costco, it's great to see that you are referencing the mattress durability guidelines . Well done on your knowledge and understanding of these guidelines. I took a look at the Costco Novaform Serafina Memory Foam mattress and the specifications listed on the website are as follows:

“Top layer: 5.1 cm (2 in.) layer of new ComfortLuxe® Gel-Pearl for cooling comfort and support
Middle layer: 7.6 cm (3 in.) layer of LURAcor™ foam which cradles less and pushes back more, for individualized weight distribution and support, and a firm feel
Bottom layer: 22.9 cm (9 in) layer of support foam offers durability and deep support”


Were you able to confirm from Novaform / Costco that the densities you mention as the exact densities? Generally speaking, the densities listed in your post for average BMI would be right on the border. Depending on the type of sleeper one is, very active sleepers tend to wear out mattresses faster than ones that move around less. The other factor for the “product” you listed would be the ILD/IFD’s of the 5lb and 3lb comfort layers. Of course, one’s budget comes into play here also, for some people they are ok with

Regarding the Springwall product, all of the Costco links for this product are no longer listed. Also the same issue for the Springwall website . Neither site lists Natural Luxury 11 inch product anymore, so it’s difficult to make any specific judgments.

You are correct that many lower density foams do bounce back, but I can’t fault Springwall for touting the use of high-density foam for durability. Maybe they are trying too hard to link this to roll packing mattresses, but it seems like it’s one of those things people would say over the phone, almost like they have an answer to questions they think people are worried about.

Regarding the picture saying medium and the description saying medium - firm, it can be a little tricky as Costco does sign off on the photos, as it is the manufacturer that usually provides the marketing materials, but this could be an administrative error, unfortunate yes and unlikely in this case that they are trying to “pull one over” on consumers.

Thank you again and let us know if you have any updated information on the specs.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 28 Feb 2019 18:58 by Phoenix.

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12 Apr 2019 15:27 #235 by Laaandry
Hi all,

Looking for a queen mattress for two, and it's looking like Brooklyn Bedding as they have a pretty good sale going on right now.

What's the biggest difference between the "Signature" and "Bowery Hybrid"? The price gap is about $100, and it seems like the only difference is the top layer material?

We are both mostly side and some front sleepers, so I'm wondering if there's any reason to get the Signature over the Bowery Hybrid.

Thanks!

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13 Apr 2019 17:20 #236 by Sensei
Hey Laaandry

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thanks for the post. What did Brooklyn Bedding tell you the difference is? There as been some discussion of these new mattresses since Q4 2018.

Below are my cut and paste from their website. The signature has the 2" Titanflex, which is one of the newer memory/poly foams. You can read more about the newer generation of new generations of polyfoams here.

The signature has the 2" Titanflex and 2" Energex foam, and the Bowery hybrid just has the 2" comfort foam (whatever that is) and also foam in the quilt package. Signature also markets some temperature regulating qualities. Clearly, there is a fairly big difference between these two products. I have not slept on them side by side. Which one is better for you is an entirely different question. Have you tried these mattresses?

Signature:

Offered in three levels of firmness to let you decide the level of support you need
Features a 2" top layer of patented TitanFlex™ foam, combining all the contouring properties of memory foam with the responsiveness of latex
Designed with a 2" layer of firmer transitional Energex™ foam for deeper compression support
Engineered with a 6" base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer
Infused with cooling TitaniumGel™ to moderate your body temperature throughout the sleep experience
Finished with a 1" high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils

Bowery Hybrid

Offered in a universal, medium firmness that balances just the right amount of pressure point relief with optimal support
Features a 1” layer of quilted, gel memory foam that resists body impressions and provides optimal cooling comfort while you sleep.
Designed with a 2” layer of comfort foam to create a gentler transition to the mattress core.
Features open cell technology for increased airflow and breathability.
Engineered with a 6” base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer.
Finished with a 1” high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils.

Thanks let us know if you have other questions.

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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16 Apr 2019 07:38 #237 by Laaandry
Thanks for the response!

I have not tried them as there's not a showroom for them near me, however, in contacting support, they pointed me towards the Bowery Hybrid as they claim it's more suitable to combo sleepers, which my partner and I would likely qualify as.

We are coming from a 6ish year old Tempurpedic with gel top that has starting to feel too firm, causing shoulder and hip pain. So a softer hybrid mattress made sense after I stayed at a relatives house and slept on a more traditional innerspring and slept great.

Ultimately, the price would come out to about $150 cheaper for the Bowery Hybrid which has me about ready to pull the trigger on it. I've heard good things about Brooklyn Bedding and had no such luck finding a similarly priced, quality, hybrid mattress.

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17 Apr 2019 08:41 #238 by Sensei
Hey Laaandry,

Thanks for the response and the additional info, re; Tempurpedic. It is so hard to comment on soft plush and firm, as everyone's definition is relative to each individual. Let us know if you have any additional questions and give us an update after you have some time adjusting to your new mattress.

Thanks again.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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18 Apr 2019 08:19 - 18 Apr 2019 08:20 #239 by MattK
Hi,
Ive been lurking here for a while digesting a lot of information along the way. First, I want to thank Phoenix and all the very knowledgeable admins/mods/users that spend time helping other members. It really helped me to be able to look past the deceiving marketing stuff of big box stores and online sellers.

I was looking at the bed in a box available in Canada and came across what appears to be yet another newcomer: www.aleasleep.com
I cant find reviews outside of their site/facebook and paid bloggers. Here are the specifications that Ive been able to get from them. Couldnt get the IFD/IDL unfortunately. On their Serinity model, there is only 3" of base layer which is far lower than most other mattresses ive seen. Would that be a problem? And beside that we do not know the density of their proprietary AleaFoam do you see anything wrong with this mattress? I'm a side/back sleeper 25 bmi.

Thank you!

Serinity
Cover - 100% Organic GOTS (The Global Organic Textile Standard) cotton
3” layer of 3rd generation memory foam which is comparable to a 4 lb High density foam
2” layer of 2 lb open cell Alea foam™ which is a proprietary blend of materials that mimic new generation memory foam. Zoned support in the middle to provide extra support for your hips
2” transition layer of 2 lb bio foam which is a soy based foam
3” base layer of 2 lb support foam which is a firm bio foam

Sanctuary
Cover - 100% Organic GOTS (The Global Organic Textile Standard) cotton
2” layer of 100% Organic GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard), 10.5 lb, 3 zoned Latex
2” layer of 3rd generation memory foam which is comparable to a 4 lb High density foam
2” layer of 2 lb open cell Alea foam™ which is a proprietary blend of materials that mimic new generation memory foam
2” transition layer of 2 lb bio foam which is a soy based foam
4” base layer of 2 lb support foam which is a firm bio foam
Last edit: 18 Apr 2019 08:20 by MattK.

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19 Apr 2019 22:53 #240 by Phoenix
Hi MattK,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you for the kind words, and for the post. I'm am glad that the information here was useful to you and that you were already able to apply it in your search.

I was looking at the bed in a box available in Canada and came across what appears to be yet another newcomer: www.aleasleep.com
I cant find reviews outside of their site/facebook and paid bloggers.


With the bed in the box market getting saturated one would think that the new online mattress ventures would slow down. A quick search of posts on TMU and I do not see any information or comments from other consumers commenting on Aleasleep so I am glad that you were able to get some information about the densities and layering ... I'd be also interested to know ILD/IFD.

A couple of quick thoughts as I peruse their website.

The cover is 100% GOTS certified organic cotton, but they do not provide any certification link and any other information. I suggest you ask for this, as these certifications are easy to document, and it should be very clear and very easy for them to send you. The latex is 100% organic. GOLS certified, which is great…. but again, no specific information about the manufacturer or any copy of the certification. The “about us” is very vague, so we don't know who is the owner, only that they have 100’s of years of mattress experience?

“On their Serenity model, there is only 3" of base layer which is far lower than most other mattresses I've seen. Would that be a problem? And besides that, we do not know the density of their proprietary AleaFoam do you see anything wrong with this mattress? I'm a side/back sleeper 25 BMI.”


I really can’t say I see anything “wrong” with this mattress, the densities that are listed are all in ranges that fit into our durability guidelines , I am sure you have already read this section. Technically speaking, there is no problem using 3” base layer at 2lb and then using the second 2” layer of 2lb foam above it. I am just speculating here ...these 2 base layers must be a different ILD/IFD which may the reason why they choose to do this in some progressive layering system. I am not sure what the “10.5lb” latex is either... might it be the weight of the actual latex topper?

I see the “office” is in Toronto but generally, it looks like some information is missing or left out for some reason, and to be on the safe side I’d also like to know where is the mattress manufactured and where their foams are sourced.

You may also want to scan through our membership listing here for Canada based members or US members who ship foam mattresses to Canada... which of course being our trusted members means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. Also, if you have questions, feel free to discuss with either Mario, from MFC, or with Laura from Dormio both leading Canadian online bedding retailer & manufacturer expert members of our site.

I'd be interested in learning about your progress or any new information that you may find about the two options you mentioned.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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