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Component Mattress Latex 26 Jun 2015 23:23 #1

I'm an obsessive compulsive researcher and that has led me here :)

I am looking to replace my long past due 17 year old innerspring mattress (has had a mem foam topper that is also now way past due for replacement!)

I have fibromyalgia/hypersomnia/allergies/reflux. Waking up and being able to get out of bed is a big deal every morning. I usually wake up with a headache from my allergies, very sore at pressure points and exhausted. I'm 5'5 and 200 lbs, my husband is 5'10 and about 190.

I've decided I'd like to get an all latex mattress mainly due to my allergies and not wanting chemicals that come with memory foam. We think we'd like to put the mattress on an adjustable base..hoping HOB elevation will help with reflux and sinus congestion...plus would make for more comfortable reading/laptop usage/tv watching.

I love the idea of the latex component system (I have committment issues haha) and didn't even know such a thing existed a few days ago. Right now I'm leaning towards either SleepEz or Flexus because they seem to offer similar options. I'm planning to visit mattress stores in my area that offer Pure Ultra Biiss and Savvy Rest to make sure I like the comfort of latex and to try and get some clue about configuration. I know from trying out the memory foam I like cushy to relieve pressure (pressure points are a serious problem. Anything with pressure hurts, including where my arm rests against my ribs at night, it's crazy..I finally figured out that was causing my chronic rib pain!) Also where my legs press against each other at night feel knotted and bruised..trying to remember to use pillows at night in these areas!) My husband and I are both side sleepers.

Here is the decisions I'm struggling with:
1) Organic vs just natural. I have read talalay does not come in organic, so I guess the cotton/wool would mainly be the organic part.. I'm not inclined to jump on the organic wagon, so long as I have natural materials.
2) All talalay vs dunlop base with Talalay comfort layer. Wondering if with the fibro I need all talalay?
3) 100% talalay vs blended?
4) 3 layer vs 4 layer? Is the 4 layer too thick for an adjustable base? Should I do the 4 layer with the fibromyalgia/pressure point? I really do not like firm, supportive yes, but I think I need more of the cloud effect.

If we get the mattress and like it I'd love to upgrade my teenagers too. They desperately need new mattresses and I don't want them to have chemicals either. They like using their laptops, studying on their beds. Kinda cool they could have a softer sleep side and a firmer "work" side perhaps. I know going to the local mattress shop my daughter did not like the really plush beds. "I don't want to sink in when I'm sitting studying" Totally opposite of me..but then again they are much lighter (about 110 and 130 lbs)

I appreciate any feedback with my weight/pain issues if there is a certain direction I should lean towards on the above points. Thank you!!

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Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 08:23 #2

Hi cardiacmommy,

I am looking to replace my long past due 17 year old innerspring mattress (has had a mem foam topper that is also now way past due for replacement!)


Welcome ... and I'm glad you found us. I would agree that after 17 years that your mattress is probably long past it's "due date" :)

I've decided I'd like to get an all latex mattress mainly due to my allergies and not wanting chemicals that come with memory foam. We think we'd like to put the mattress on an adjustable base..hoping HOB elevation will help with reflux and sinus congestion...plus would make for more comfortable reading/laptop usage/tv watching.


There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). I would keep in mind that online advertised prices are often controlled so make sure you call them rather than just looking at websites.

There is also more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how natural is natural enough for me" or "how safe is safe enough for me" so you can make more "fact based" choices on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress. These types of issues can be complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

There is also more about dust mite allergies (which is the most common allergy related to mattresses and bedding) in post #2 here .

1) Organic vs just natural. I have read talalay does not come in organic, so I guess the cotton/wool would mainly be the organic part.. I'm not inclined to jump on the organic wagon, so long as I have natural materials.


There is more about organic latex in post #6 here and more about organic certifications in post #2 here and the posts it links to but from a performance and durability perspective there is little to no difference between 100% natural Dunlop latex that is certified organic and 100% natural Dunlop latex that isn't outside of the certification itself and the additional costs that it adds to the material. Of course choosing certified organic materials can still be a personal preference or a lifestyle choice that can be important for some people and there are some "non performance" benefits that are part of the organic certification process as well (see post #3 here ).

2) All talalay vs dunlop base with Talalay comfort layer. Wondering if with the fibro I need all talalay?


This would also be a personal preference choice rather than a "better/worse" choice and both Dunlop and Talalay come in a wide range of firmness choices from very soft to very firm. There is more about the pros and cons of Talalay vs Dunlop in post #7 here but the best way to know which type of latex you tend to prefer would be based on your own careful testing and personal experience.

3) 100% talalay vs blended?


There is more about 100% natural Talalay vs blended Talalay in post #2 here .

4) 3 layer vs 4 layer? Is the 4 layer too thick for an adjustable base? Should I do the 4 layer with the fibromyalgia/pressure point? I really do not like firm, supportive yes, but I think I need more of the cloud effect.


12" of latex will be fine with an adjustable bed. You aren't in a weight range that would "need" 12" of latex and there are many people that wouldn't feel any difference between a mattress that has 3 layers and a mattress that uses 4 layers with the same top 3 layers with an additional extra Xfirm layer on the bottom although some people will and may prefer the extra layer either based on how it feels to them or because of the additional layering options that it would make available. There is more about the effect of thickness and/or having an extra layer in post #14 here and more about having more layers vs less in post #2 here . Some people also prefer a three layer mattress with a topper instead of having the extra layer inside the cover. There is more about the effect of having a separate topper vs having the same layer inside the mattress cover in posts #3 and #4 here and in this topic .

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 18:26 #3

Thank you Phoenix.

Well hubby and I went out and about today and I don't know if I'm any closer or not! LOL

We tried a savvy rest. The model we liked was s/m/f with a soft topper. I believe both soft were talalay and the m/f were dunlop. We loved the wool covering too. We tried it briefly without the topper (it wasn't really a mattress store and was a bit awkward testing) and it felt nice but we really liked it with the extra soft layer. We tried another configuration and it was way too hard.

Then we stopped in a high pressure mattress store and tried an pure bliss and HATED it. Even with the comfort layer it just didn't feel as good. Without the topper it felt rock hard. The topper felt much more flimsy than the savvy rest. I wonder if the nice wool cover gave it more strength or something. I dunno it just didn't feel anything like the savvy rest.

We then went by another store to check out adjustable frames and now this is where it gets tricky. They were sooo nice. They are clearing out the tempurpedic and had a cloud supreme breeze for $1300 (normally 3500 w/base) It felt nice, but I still like the thought of a more natural solution. Hmm. They also had the reverie display on clearance with the little dreamcells on clearance for $1500. It was set up with a medium configuration which felt too hard, but maybe with rearranging it we would like it better. It just was not comfortable (only 2" topper too)

I called sleepez and she did not recommend soft on soft. She said she would try s/m/m if we did 3 layer or s/m/m/f if we did 4 layer. I asked about making the 4th layer on top out of the casing like a topper. She said it might make it a little softer, but the 4 layer probably felt softer because we were farther away from the firm, rather than that it was in it's own casing. She also recommended the natural line over the organic..she stated they would feel the same but without the extra $ of the organic. She also recommended I make all the layers talalay since I like the cushioning and with the pressure point.

I'm SO confused what to do. The tempurpedic is such a bargain and it was comfortable, but is it healthy? Will it feel as good 5+ years from now? I'd love to give the local store my business, but I really did love the savvy rest and if I could duplicate that for less ordering online I'd rather do that. I feel pressured to decide because I know the tempurpedic won't last long at that amazing price. I "think" the reverie is out of the picture but I do wonder if it would feel different moving the cells around. I haven't seen much on here about those dream cells and how they differ from the solid layers of latex.

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Last edit: by cardiacmommy.

Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 19:28 #4

I just found on this site that the reverie we tried has a 2" topper of 60-65 density. No wonder it felt so firm! Guessing that even changing the design to the soft configuration would not work for us because we like a soft comfort layer. Still debating on the tempurpedic vs trying to fashion something akin to the savvy rest. This is a hard decision!

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Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 19:29 #5

Hi cardiacmommy,

Then we stopped in a high pressure mattress store and tried an pure bliss and HATED it. Even with the comfort layer it just didn't feel as good. Without the topper it felt rock hard. The topper felt much more flimsy than the savvy rest. I wonder if the nice wool cover gave it more strength or something. I dunno it just didn't feel anything like the savvy rest.


I'm not sure which model of the Pure Latex Bliss you tried (they have many models that are very different from each other) but their toppers are about 14 - 15 ILD and are much softer than the Savvy Rest topper (which is probably why it felt more "flimsy" to you). It also doesn't have a wool quilted cover which can also make a significant difference in how it feels. There is more about the effects of a wool quilted cover vs a thinner more stretchy knit cover in post #6 here . The wool quilting doesn't add more "strength" but along with the different firmness levels of the latex it certainly can change the "feel" of the latex inside the cover.

We then went by another store to check out adjustable frames and now this is where it gets tricky. They were sooo nice. They are clearing out the tempurpedic and had a cloud supreme breeze for $1300 (normally 3500 w/base) It felt nice, but I still like the thought of a more natural solution. Hmm. They also had the reverie display on clearance with the little dreamcells on clearance for $1500. It was set up with a medium configuration which felt too hard, but maybe with rearranging it we would like it better. It just was not comfortable (only 2" topper too)


I would keep in mind that Tempurpedic is price controlled so if the mattress was being sold at a significant discount compared to the Tempurpedic site then it's possible that it's a used or returned mattress and may not have a warranty. I would make sure that they are an authorized Tempurpedic dealer before you purchase it.

The same would be true for the Reverie mattress. The Reverie Dream system has a soft, medium, and a firm configuration that would all be different from each other and can be rearranged after a purchase. You can see some comments about their mattress in post #2 here and the specs of their mattresses are in post #6 here .

I called sleepez and she did not recommend soft on soft. She said she would try s/m/m if we did 3 layer or s/m/m/f if we did 4 layer. I asked about making the 4th layer on top out of the casing like a topper. She said it might make it a little softer, but the 4 layer probably felt softer because we were farther away from the firm, rather than that it was in it's own casing. She also recommended the natural line over the organic..she stated they would feel the same but without the extra $ of the organic. She also recommended I make all the layers talalay since I like the cushioning and with the pressure point.


I would agree that having two soft layers on top of a mattress would be more risky both in terms of durability (softer layers are less durable than firmer layers) and possibly in terms of your sleeping posture and alignment as well. If you try their recommendations then if it's still too firm you can always exchange a medium for a soft layer but I would tend to follow their recommendations first because they will tend to suggest what their experience tells them you need rather than what you may think you need. This would be especially true if you were testing mattresses based on "showroom feel" rather than using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post.


There is also more about latex vs memory foam in post #2 here but they are very different from each other and the choice between different types of materials or mattresses is always a preference choice that only you can decide.

I would be very cautious about buying anything where you feel "pressured" to buy (no matter how nice the salespeople may be) and I would tend to be very cautious with these types of stores that are selling something that sounds too good to be true ... because it usually isn't. Good quality/value mattresses are available every day of the year and a mattress purchase that is based on being influenced by sales techniques or a "deal" that gives you a "sense of loss" or "missing out" if you don't "jump on it" will too easily lead to a very poor choice or to choosing a mattress for all the wrong reasons and is one of the most frequent reasons for buyers remorse.

Your sleep is too important to buy a mattress from a salesperson that is more interested in their profit than in helping to educate you about which mattress is really the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 21:07 #6

Thank you Phoenix. The tempurpedic and reverie are both floor models. They have discontinued both (tempurpedic due to chemicals and reverie due to going to OMI (Organicpedic) brand which apparently is a high quality but I haven't researched it) These are both without warranty due to being the display models.

I will say the store was not pushy at all, they are family operated and she actually told me to think about it because it's a big decision and I should get what I'm happy with. This store steers away from the big lines (s/s/s and now tempurpedic too) and is more boutique in nature and more customer service focused. I would not hesitate to refer friends there after our nice experience. We went there to look at the bases only and just happened upon the clearance area and when I saw the exact same mattress I tried last week for over 3k for that price I got a little temporary excitement and my "bargain hunter" came out!

But, the more I contemplate the more I really want to go with something as close as I can get to the savvy rest. I just liked the whole natural feel of it. Talking it out on this forum really helps me see the pros and cons.

I have a call into Flexus to see what they would recommend to get the feel of the Savvy Rest and then hopefully I'll be able to make a decision!! :)

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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: "Organicpedic" added for search

Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 21:13 #7

CM,

Some food for thought - from my limited perspective.

You started this process with your health as your primary concern and that concern led you to research and become knowledgeable about memory foam alternatives, specifically, latex. (Note:: I am not saying that memory foam would have an impact on your health, just pointing out that you had a strong, personal rationale for latex as an alternative.) In addition, you did a fair amount of research on latex mattresses, their attributes and differences in composition. Finally, your research on latex mattresses was reinforced by your first-hand experience with trying out one.

Along the way, you run into a 'deal' for a memory foam mattress and now you are struggling with making a decision. A few things to consider:
- you weren't considering a memory foam mattress and haven't evaluated all the alternatives within that product category:
- you haven't developed an equivalent value statement for how a memory foam mattress, in general, and a Tempurpedic, specifically, would meet all of your needs;
- you are most knowledgeable about latex mattresses (so far) and are developing a feel for types of latex, kinds of components and composition, and relative value of each; and,
- you are currently narrowing down your latex choices based on research, pricing, value proposition, and flexibility in meeting your health needs.

Given everything that I've read, it appears that you are forgoing your well-researched and evidence-based rationale for a latex mattress and considering a memory foam mattress that you know little about and are unsure of how it meets your needs based on one consideration: the opportunity to save money on a Tempurpedic.

My advice: You are making a decision that will impact your life for years. Stay the course, keep looking and find a mattress that meets ALL of your needs,

Regards,
Eagle





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Component Mattress Latex 27 Jun 2015 21:21 #8

Hi Eagle,

My advice: You are making a decision that will impact your life for years. Stay the course, keep looking and find a mattress that meets ALL of your needs,


'Well said ... and I couldn't agree with you more!

Phoenix
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Component Mattress Latex 29 Jun 2015 22:48 #9

Thank you Eaglenine and Phoenix. I'm so glad I had this forum to help me work through this. You are so right..I did have very valid and researched reasons for choosing latex. I would not have even been considering the tempurpedic had I not walked into that back room and saw the clearance deal. Whew..tragedy averted..glad I came to my senses!
As I wrote in another post, I ordered the base for the bed. Since it weighs over 300lbs, my husband wanted to upgrade to white glove and that takes like 10-14 days so I wanted to get that going while I make up my mind on the mattress itself.

So I called sleepez back and spoke to Shawn. I explained to him about my savvy rest thoughts and he seemed to be more along my original thinking. He said the separate top layer would definitely have a different feel to it since it's not in the same casing. Since we really like soft beds, and aren't the thinnest people, he actually was pro doing a soft topper on top of the base mattress. He said soft layers will wear faster, and having the topper would help protect the main mattress. He said to expect to have to change out the topper or soft top layer in 5-6 years. But at least it would just be a layer and not a whole new mattress.

I love the feel of the cotton/wool and it seems a shame to waste that wonderful casing by putting a cotton only casing on a topper (I think I will have them send me a sample though anyway.) The 3" talalay topper starts at ~460 for a cotton cover but goes to $649 if I want wool..eek. That is a lot more to shell out right now, especially since I still have to get 2 more queen mattresses for my teens. So..here is my current thought:

Get the 10" mattress to start. Try the s/m/m blended talalay per robin's suggestion. However, I think I may get one side s/m/f to compare. The savvy rest we tried without the topper and thought was a bit too firm was s/m dun/f dun. But I know talalay is softer feeling than dunlop, and I think sleepez ILD may be a little lower too. This would let us try some options and then do a layer swap if needed. If both combinations still feel too hard, then we can look into adding some type of topper after trialing just the 10".

Shawn also said with the adjustable base if we went to 13" it would be a little harder to conform to raising the head up higher, so that also helped seal the 10" for me.

I'm gonna sleep on it tonight and hopefully order tomorrow. So I took a closer look at my old mattress tonight. OMG no wonder I'm miserable. That thing is so saggy, it was originally a double sided pillow top and there is NO pillow left. The bottom layer just gapes out the side as there is no filling left, and you can feel the springs pushing out. I'll have to take a picture to post on here. I didn't realize it was THAT bad. I should have bought a new mattress YEARS ago. I think as long as I've put up with that mess it's worth it to spend a little extra $ to get some quality bedding in this house!

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Component Mattress Latex 29 Jun 2015 23:14 #10

Hi cardiacmommy,

Not surprisingly I agree with everything that Shawn told you and your thoughts about trying the mattress without the topper in an all Talalay configuration first makes a lot of sense to me as well. I also think it's a good idea to have at least one side with the firm on the bottom.

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

PS: It would be great to see a picture of your old mattress :)
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Last edit: by Phoenix.
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