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Did I make a mistake ? 02 Sep 2015 22:14 #1

Hi, after what I consider much research/time and getting personal advice from a certain mattress blog fellow who I feel was sincere and very experienced ....I went with a Charles Rogers St Charles mattress to replace a 15-20 yr old basic Sealy posture-poise model that I just felt wasn't helping me get the best ...deep sleep. I kept the Sealy box
Spring vs a platform - nothing wrong with it.

I'm noticing now having slept on this since about late May this year, it is definitely firm enough but seems I get kinda hot on it. Now maybe it's just my imagination but I don't recall that being an issue with the old one. This has a pillow top and I wonder if that can make it warmer. I'm actually not sure I really necessarily like a pillow top or want it but it's part of the design.... In researching all this I originally was gonna put a latex topper on this but wanted to see how it went without that first. I must say I wrestle with getting truly comfortable in this mattress for awhile some nights before I can fall asleep. I considered maybe it's stacking multiple pillows that could contribute to restlessness. I'm a back sleeper ideally bit some nights find myself resorting to side position to get sleep.
It is nicely firm with what seems better overall support than the old Matt...I can say that.
Well, I guess I wonder what to try. I don't think returning it is an option. - and I don't live close to Rogers showroom...bought it online on faith and trust from the bed expert that it seemed the perfect choice and was sort of a cant-go-wrong thing.

Would a topper maybe make it even warmer..? (Assuming it's not my imagination that this is a hot mattress esp. In Summertime). Is it.odd to lay a topper on a pillow top mattress. That never occurred to me when we were designing the combo idea of topper + new St.Charles to create a hybrid alternative to a Casper I originally was considering.

Finally does it really matter if I use boxspring vs platform foundation? Topper on this would make the bed pretty high off the floor.... That said I cd certainly get an economical platform online and ditch the boxspring. It would at least be more a normal height then stacking all this on the boxspring.

Sorry for the lengthiness here... Would welcome any thoughts and thanks for your time,

Mike in Mich

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Last edit: by mikes425.

Did I make a mistake ? 02 Sep 2015 23:34 #2

Hi Mike,

We put a 3" Latex Mattress Topper on a Pillow top Mattress, ours was far to firm. It made so much differance, especially for me. We both liked the Topper. Did not seem to change the temperature at all for me. Nor my husband. Although I sleep cooler, then he does. But never heard him complain either. As a matter of fact we just bought a 3" New Latex Mattress Toppper. Yes it made our Bed pretty high, since I am short, it seems about 4 inches higher. I have no idea why they make the Mattresses so much higher now and not flippable. The Latex Toppers you can flip, more useful! They do Not move easy on your bed once laid down. We do have a Mattress Cover , it cover Mattress and Latex Topper,, it does make it taller to climb into the bed and Your Sheets have to be Large to cover both, the Sheets thankfully are or come deeper now,but I have decided to get a separate cover this time. Just my priority.

Mike do you sleep warm now? You live in a cooler climate then us, and we do not sleep warmer with a Latex Topper , Talalay is another opition! Dunlop Latex is like Pound Cake, Talalay Latex is like Sponge Cake! There are differant ILD's for both. Soft -20 , Medium,-30 or Firm-40...some even have ExSoft, and ExFirm in both. . Some are numbered, like 18, 24, 32, 40, ect! You choose what is best for you! Most Sellers will help you decide. Back sleepers usually prefer firmer, or medium, firm Mattress Toppers.

They do have low profile Box Springs now. I have seen them. A platform would make it lower too!

Phoenix is the best person to look for a good answer , although all questions help us all!
And many are great helpers here.
Wishing you the best,
Bunny

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Did I make a mistake ? 03 Sep 2015 01:14 #3

Hi mikes425,

I'm noticing now having slept on this since about late May this year, it is definitely firm enough but seems I get kinda hot on it. Now maybe it's just my imagination but I don't recall that being an issue with the old one. This has a pillow top and I wonder if that can make it warmer. I'm actually not sure I really necessarily like a pillow top or want it but it's part of the design.... In researching all this I originally was gonna put a latex topper on this but wanted to see how it went without that first. I must say I wrestle with getting truly comfortable in this mattress for awhile some nights before I can fall asleep. I considered maybe it's stacking multiple pillows that could contribute to restlessness. I'm a back sleeper ideally bit some nights find myself resorting to side position to get sleep.
It is nicely firm with what seems better overall support than the old Matt...I can say that.
Well, I guess I wonder what to try. I don't think returning it is an option. - and I don't live close to Rogers showroom...bought it online on faith and trust from the bed expert that it seemed the perfect choice and was sort of a cant-go-wrong thing.


The only real mistake that I can see in your comments is "trusting" anyone else to choose a mattress for you in terms of "comfort" and what I call PPP which is Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences although hopefully the outcome of your "mistake" can be corrected.

I would always keep in mind that the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site or some other "experts" on different sites that are knowledgeable and experienced and that have your genuine best interests at heart can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don't involve what you will "feel" on a mattress, and help with "how" to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress or combination of materials is the best match for you based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that they have some kind of crystal ball that can predict which specific mattress you will sleep best on with any certainty. It just doesn't exist.

There is more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of comfort and PPP in post #2 here that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for once you actually sleep on your mattress in "real life". When you can't test a mattress in person ... even if it was "recommended by an expert" ... I would always make sure that you are comfortable with the options you have after a purchase to "fine tune" the comfort or support of the mattress or to exchange or return the mattress because there will always be cases where in spite of the "best efforts" of all concerned ... purchasing a mattress that you haven't tried in person is much more risky without having good options available to you after a purchase.

A softer pillowtop can certainly add to heat issues for some people because you will sink into the mattress more and the thicker layers of foam can be more insulating than a firmer mattress that you don't sink into as deeply but there are also other reasons that some people may sleep hot on some mattresses.

While it's not always possible to to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with ... there is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

Would a topper maybe make it even warmer..? (Assuming it's not my imagination that this is a hot mattress esp. In Summertime). Is it.odd to lay a topper on a pillow top mattress. That never occurred to me when we were designing the combo idea of topper + new St.Charles to create a hybrid alternative to a Casper I originally was considering.


Whether a topper would make your sleeping system warmer or not would depend on the type of topper.

A topper can be a good solution for a mattress that is too firm and that just needs some additional softness and pressure relief (as long as it doesn't have any soft spots or sagging in the sleeping surface) but I would be cautious about using a topper to try and "fix" temperature regulation issues because if a mattress is already a good match for you in terms of PPP then a topper can add too much additional softness and you could end up exchanging a temperature regulation issue for a back ache that is the result of sleeping on a mattress that is too soft. If some of the suggestions in the previous link (such as choosing a different mattress protector or different sheets etc) aren't enough to solve any temperature regulation issues you are experiencing then I would consider a thinner mattress pad or topper made from natural fibers such as wool that can help maintain a more neutral sleeping temperature and have the least possible effect on the overall comfort and support of the mattress.

Finally does it really matter if I use boxspring vs platform foundation? Topper on this would make the bed pretty high off the floor.... That said I cd certainly get an economical platform online and ditch the boxspring. It would at least be more a normal height then stacking all this on the boxspring.


There is more about the different types of support systems that generally work best with different types of mattresses in post #1 here . In general terms ... a one sided innerspring mattress will generally work best on a support system (such as a foundation or a platform bed) that has minimal to no flex, has good center support to the floor to prevent sagging in the middle, has a large enough support surface area to minimize the risk of the mattress sagging into any gaps in the support surface over time, that allows some airflow under the mattress, and that raises the sleeping surface of your mattress to a height that would be suitable for you for getting in and out of bed and/or sitting on the edge of your mattress.

Using a box spring that flexes under a mattress that is designed to use a non flexing support surface can affect the comfort and support of the mattress and can also reduce the useful life of the mattress.

Phoenix

PS: You can see some of my thoughts about the Old Bed Guy in this topic
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Did I make a mistake ? 03 Sep 2015 08:29 #4

Well thanks folks, for all this helpful info. It's amazing how many variables are involved in the best decision… perhaps i tried taking the easy way out by trusting a fairly lengthy back and forth analysis process with OBG and honestly i felt it well reasoned enough to move forward… I can't say this is not a quality product. And honestly the latex topper suggestion was part of the original "plan" mapped out since i have liked a memory foam experience in the past. Just maybe this is a case of 'too firm' and i should try the recommended topper - a 2" all natural latex version… I'm very big on non-synthetic anything - esp as i have dust allergy. I did remove a mattress 'allergy protector' cover that'd been on my old mattress/boxspring and i tried on this new one- it was too tight and at first i thought that was compressing down the pillow top and making it less comfortable. It was suggested that such covers really aren't necessary and that the CPR mattress is inherently designed to minimize potential allergy issues anyway so perhaps i'm just noticing the pillow cushioning more since removing it. It didn't seem to change the 'warm' issue but Phoenix, as you point out i can see where that 'sinking in' to the pillow might be the temperature factor here… Lower back had been a slight issue with old mattress. I think this mattress has been much better with more even and solid support.

This is a very good box spring with zero sag and well constructed so i'm not really as concerned about that other than for the whole height issue IF i get a topper. Before i call it a mistake i suppose i should t go ahead and give the tala lay 2" one a 'chance' and see if it helps - or contributes in some way to any temperature change. (of course if not i've spent $250 more on the 'experiment' ; )

One thing i think i'd like about this mattress - my bedroom gets cold in Winter - (and i'm one who cuts the thermostat to minimal levels as much as possible for energy conservation) so perhaps this is more a seasonal phenomena … i have a sense i'd appreciate the warmth of it as we get into colder months..

Anyway thanks again for the reference links and insights!

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Last edit: by mikes425.

Did I make a mistake ? 03 Sep 2015 10:15 #5

Hi mikes425,

Well thanks folks, for all this helpful info. It's amazing how many variables are involved in the best decision… perhaps i tried taking the easy way out by trusting a fairly lengthy back and forth analysis process with OBG and honestly i felt it well reasoned enough to move forward… I can't say this is not a quality product. And honestly the latex topper suggestion was part of the original "plan" mapped out since i have liked a memory foam experience in the past. Just maybe this is a case of 'too firm' and i should try the recommended topper - a 2" all natural latex version… I'm very big on non-synthetic anything - esp as i have dust allergy. I did remove a mattress 'allergy protector' cover that'd been on my old mattress/boxspring and i tried on this new one- it was too tight and at first i thought that was compressing down the pillow top and making it less comfortable. It was suggested that such covers really aren't necessary and that the CPR mattress is inherently designed to minimize potential allergy issues anyway so perhaps i'm just noticing the pillow cushioning more since removing it. It didn't seem to change the 'warm' issue but Phoenix, as you point out i can see where that 'sinking in' to the pillow might be the temperature factor here… Lower back had been a slight issue with old mattress. I think this mattress has been much better with more even and solid support.

This is a very good box spring with zero sag and well constructed so i'm not really as concerned about that other than for the whole height issue IF i get a topper. Before i call it a mistake i suppose i should t go ahead and give the tala lay 2" one a 'chance' and see if it helps - or contributes in some way to any temperature change. (of course if not i've spent $250 more on the 'experiment' ; )


If your mattress is too firm and you need some additional "comfort" and/or pressure relief then a topper can certainly be a good idea. Latex in general is also the most breathable and temperature neutral of all the foam materials (memory foam, polyfoam, latex foam) so it could also help with temperature regulation as well.

If you do decide to add a topper to your sleeping system then here is also more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to that can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better and more reliable online sources for toppers I'm aware of as well. A 2" topper would be "in the range" that would work well "on average" for many people although the only way to know for sure whether you will sleep well on any mattress/topper combination will be based on your own personal experience so the exchange or return policy can also be an important part of the "value" of a topper purchase.

There is more information about dust mites and allergies and methods that can be used to control dust mite populations or other allergens in post #2 here and in post #3 here . There is also more about allergy encasements in post #2 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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