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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 13 Oct 2015 15:40 #1

Hi,

For reference, I've read the mattress buying tutorial and found it really helpful.

Sunday was the first time I really bought a real mattress for the first time. I visited a Mattress Warehouse (22152) and bought a Kingsdown Chardonnay for $1800 after some deliberation since I needed a mattress for moving to a new place. Today we had a snafu with the delivery folks and after an extremely frustrating experience on the phone, I've decided to just cut my losses and get a refund and move on.

I've decided to do a little more homework by reviewing sleeplikethedead and this site as well. I figured a good place to start looking for mattresses were sites with Columbus day deals and IKEA. I'm currently sleeping on a $200 ikea foam mattress and would really like to get an upgrade (hence the Chardonnay). After searching, I see that a lot of folks on here had bad experience with Kingsdown in general.

So a good place to start for me is here: slickdeals.net/f/8150990-us-mattress-sale-sealy-posturepedic-queen-629-simmons-beautyrest-queen-399-much-more-free-s-h

Kohls, Costco and USMattress are having the Columbus day sale on their mattresses and I was hoping if folks can shed some light on what their experiences with these mattress have been like? I never slept on any of these brands before.

For reference I'm 24, 135 lbs, sleep on my sides, and have a minor hip/ SI joint problem and lower back pain if I don't build up my core. I find that I prefer something cool since I heat up pretty fast in bed for some reason (possibly the foam mattress I have) and the best bed I've ever slept on was at a Hilton 3-star hotel. Just feels so cool and cold to the touch. Thanks!

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 13 Oct 2015 16:47 #2

Commandment of mattress shopping, Number 5.

5. Never let a "major sale" create a sense of urgency. Quality mattresses with great value are available year round at better retailers and manufacturers and the so-called "sale prices" that are offered by most of the mainstream stores and major brands (and even some of the smaller ones) are often a complete gimmick. Sale prices of 30, 40, 50% or more off are a major warning sign (and never really end) since nobody ever buys these mattresses at regular prices anyway. These fake sale prices are meant to encourage you to buy based on a false perception of value or based on a sense of urgency when in fact they are often still very much overpriced based on the materials in the mattress. While even good stores or manufacturers will occasionally have a sale ... they will be discounted from selling prices that already have good value and be for a smaller discount and for a legitimate reason.

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 13 Oct 2015 17:41 #3

Hi logicgaming,

I noticed that you registered with your email as your username which means that automated spambots will be able to harvest your email and add you to their spam lists. If you'd like I can remove the @ and the domain after it and change your username to just logicgaming (or any username you wish).

For reference, I've read the mattress buying tutorial and found it really helpful.

Sunday was the first time I really bought a real mattress for the first time. I visited a Mattress Warehouse (22152) and bought a Kingsdown Chardonnay for $1800 after some deliberation since I needed a mattress for moving to a new place. Today we had a snafu with the delivery folks and after an extremely frustrating experience on the phone, I've decided to just cut my losses and get a refund and move on.

I've decided to do a little more homework by reviewing sleeplikethedead and this site as well. I figured a good place to start looking for mattresses were sites with Columbus day deals and IKEA. I'm currently sleeping on a $200 ikea foam mattress and would really like to get an upgrade (hence the Chardonnay). After searching, I see that a lot of folks on here had bad experience with Kingsdown in general.

So a good place to start for me is here: slickdeals.net/f/8150990-us-mattress-sal...9-much-more-free-s-h

Kohls, Costco and USMattress are having the Columbus day sale on their mattresses and I was hoping if folks can shed some light on what their experiences with these mattress have been like? I never slept on any of these brands before.


I would strongly encourage you to "reset" how you are looking for a mattress and to reread the tutorial which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and more importantly help you know why and how to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

While I can't speak to how a mattress will feel or how different mattresses will compare in terms of comfort and PPP for someone else ... outside of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing all the specifics of its design and construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to confirm that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

All the major brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay and I would avoid all of them completely along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

In other words ... I would avoid every one of the mattresses you mentioned and all of them would make a very risky purchase that would be very likely to soften and break down prematurely relative to the price you paid or relative to many other mattresses that are available to you that use higher quality and more durable materials.

Kohls, Costco and USMattress are having the Columbus day sale on their mattresses and I was hoping if folks can shed some light on what their experiences with these mattress have been like? I never slept on any of these brands before.


These are all retailers that sell a wide variety of mattresses that are all very different from each other but for the most part and with a few exceptions they are all selling major brand mattresses that I would avoid.

You can also see some comments about the type of "fake sales" that often happen on holidays in the guidelines here and in post #5 here . I would treat these types of sales as a red flag because good quality/value mattresses are available every day of the year from better retailers or manufacturers that don't need "fake sales" to create a false sense of urgency.

If you are looking at an online purchase then the tutorial also includes several links to lists of the better online options or possibilities I'm aware of (in the optional online step).

If you are also looking at local options then if you let me know your city or zip code I'd be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities that are reasonably close to you as well.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 13 Oct 2015 21:57 #4

Hi,

I'll reply to both, first off thanks PapaMike for letting me know that the Comlumbus day sales and discounts are usually a sham. This lessens my desperation for the best possible price so to speak and makes sure I have time to make an informed decision about my next mattress.

@Phoenix, please go ahead and remove the @ and domain, not sure what happened there since my email address for the forum account is completely different. I'll take a closer look at the tutorial since I've only skimmed it so to speak. While I go over all your hyperlinks, can you provide a list of your recommended retailers in zip code 22152 or 22301? Also as a personal preference for you, shopping locally would provide a better result because you can actually test out all the mattress in terms of comfort and PPP, correct?

I'll go over the tutorial again to figure out where to start. Are all the brands that are "avoid" on your top 15 brands list pretty much blacklisted in terms of durability? I saw Kingsdown on there was just wondering because when I lay on the Kingsdown mattress I saw in store, it was really comfy to me so I'm not sure how to add to my assessment since most of the ones I tried "feel" comfortable. I might be able to glean more information from the mattress buying tutorial, but before I was going with the mindset of "if these 10 side sleepers said they have a great time with this mattress, then it probably is a good mattress."

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 13 Oct 2015 22:51 #5

Hi logicgaming,

please go ahead and remove the @ and domain, not sure what happened there since my email address for the forum account is completely different.


I've changed your username to logicgaming so you can log in with the new username now.

While I go over all your hyperlinks, can you provide a list of your recommended retailers in zip code 22152 or 22301?


The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the northern VA and Washington, DC area (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets that quality/value guidelines I linked in my previous reply) are listed in post #2 here .

Also as a personal preference for you, shopping locally would provide a better result because you can actually test out all the mattress in terms of comfort and PPP, correct?


I don't think that there is an answer to this that anyone can say that one is "better" than the other for any specific person or area. For me it would really depend on the the specific mattresses that I was considering or that I knew were available to me locally compared to the online options that I was also considering based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of my personal value equation that were most important to me. There is also more about the pros and cons of an online purchase vs a local purchase in post #2 here and this topic . This is something that each person will need to decide for themselves because there are pros and cons to both of them that will depend on the person and on the area that you live.

Are all the brands that are "avoid" on your top 15 brands list pretty much blacklisted in terms of durability? I saw Kingsdown on there was just wondering because when I lay on the Kingsdown mattress I saw in store, it was really comfy to me so I'm not sure how to add to my assessment since most of the ones I tried "feel" comfortable.


The ratings in the "top 15" list are based on the likelihood that you will be able to find out the quality and durability of the materials inside their mattresses and/or that a mattress will contain lower quality and less durable materials that would be a weak link in the mattress. No matter how "comfortable" a mattress may be in a showroom or when it's new (and comfort is subjective and not as important as posture and alignment and pressure relief which are the two most important functions of a mattress) ... there would be little value in buying a mattress that only maintained the comfort and support that was the reason you purchased it in the first place for a few years (or in some cases much less). I would always keep in mind that how a mattress "feels" and the quality and durability of the materials (which you can't "feel") are completely separate issues.

I would never buy any mattress (regardless of the name of the manufacturer) where you aren't able to confirm the quality and durability of the materials inside it so that you can make sure that there are no lower quality materials or "weak links" in the mattress that can lead to the premature loss of comfort and support and needing to buy a new mattress much too quickly relative to the price you paid for it. I would also always keep in mind that the warranty on a mattress and the price of a mattress can both have very little to do with how well you will sleep on a mattress or how long you will sleep well on a mattress before you need to replace it.

before I was going with the mindset of "if these 10 side sleepers said they have a great time with this mattress, then it probably is a good mattress."


I would keep in mind that while other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would be very cautious about about using other people's experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on and reviews in general certainly won't tell you much if anything about the quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress (see post #13 here ).

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 14 Oct 2015 20:14 #6

Hi Phoenix,

I went back and finished reading all the guides on your site today. I'm ready to quit my job and become a mattress salesman. Just fyi, you seem like a nice guy. Listen, I'll extend my columbus day sale today as this is my last Kingsdown Chardonnay. It's got LATEX! I'll even throw in pillows! 70% off!

In all seriousness, I kinda have a gist of what I want from reading about everything. I definitely like my comfort layer to be latex or a hybrid of sorts, maybe around 3 inches, more on the thin and softer side since I'm pretty light (135lbs). Not sure about support layer and my budget would probably fall in the $1000-1500 category. I know you're a fan of latex from reading about your alternate origin story, any recommended mattress from the online/local retailers list you linked me? I'm gonna try and do some field testing this Saturday but it would help to hear your opinion on them. In the meantime, I'll keep doing some homework on these, thanks! I think a good down pillow for my neck would benefit me greatly since I sleep on my sides alot.

EDIT: I've look through some of the online retailers and found 4 I really like:

1. www.sleepez.com/organic-latex-mattress.html?model=9000
For $1375, I could build 6 inches of natural Talalay latex, with wool quilt and cotton cover. This sounds amazing for someone who wants to sleep cool. Is there any downsides to full on 6 inches of Talalay latex for both support cores and comfort layers? I know for myself, I should be on a thin and soft comfort layer. It seems like this would make sense on paper since 100% NR Talalay is the highest quality material you can get here vs 100% Dunlop or blended Talalay.

2. www.sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/114

Same as above but comes with 2 inches of Talalay and 6 inches of Dunlop for $1245.

3. Brooklyn Bedding

Queen+soft = $750. This seems like a solid choice as well with 2 inches of Talalay latex and 2 inches of Dunlop over 6 inches of HD poly foam.

4. www.helixsleep.com/chart

Even though it is 100% Dunlop latex, the microcoils are interesting.

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 14 Oct 2015 21:29 #7

Hi logicgaming,

I went back and finished reading all the guides on your site today. I'm ready to quit my job and become a mattress salesman. Just fyi, you seem like a nice guy. Listen, I'll extend my columbus day sale today as this is my last Kingsdown Chardonnay. It's got LATEX! I'll even throw in pillows! 70% off!


Are you sure you haven't been spending some time in "mattress salesperson training school"? :)

As sad as it is ... the members here that have spent more than a couple of hours on the site will probably know more meaningful information about mattresses and mattress materials than the large majority of salespeople that sell them in the mainstream industry.

I know you're a fan of latex from reading about your alternate origin story, any recommended mattress from the online/local retailers list you linked me?


While it's true that I personally like latex ... this is only my own preference and my own personal preferences may be very different from someone else and certainly wouldn't be helpful for anyone else. A mattress that is "perfect" for me may be completely unsuitable for someone else with very different needs or preferences to sleep on.

The first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can't test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I also don't keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with or visit anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting or considering based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress relative to your weight that you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don't involve what you will "feel" on a mattress, and help with "how" to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is "best for you" regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else (including me) would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 14 Oct 2015 21:33 #8

Sorry, I was editing my post before I saw your post. I picked out 4 mattresses from online retailers that seems attractive to me and plan to go out and see and feel similar mattresses in person this weekend. What do you think about the following:

1. www.sleepez.com/products/organic-latex-mattress?model=9000
For $1375, I could build 6 inches of natural Talalay latex, with wool quilt and cotton cover. This sounds amazing for someone who wants to sleep cool. Is there any downsides to full on 6 inches of Talalay latex for both support cores and comfort layers? I know for myself, I should be on a thin and soft comfort layer. It seems like this would make sense on paper since 100% NR Talalay is the highest quality material you can get here vs 100% Dunlop or blended Talalay.

2. www.sleepez.com/products/8-inch-latex-mattress

Same as above but comes with 2 inches of Talalay and 6 inches of Dunlop for $1245.

3. Brooklyn Bedding

Queen+soft = $750. This seems like a solid choice as well with 2 inches of Talalay latex and 2 inches of Dunlop over 6 inches of HD poly foam.

4. helixsleep.com/

Even though it is 100% Dunlop latex, the microcoils are interesting.

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Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 14 Oct 2015 22:50 #9

Hi logicgaming,

1. www.sleepez.com/products/organic-latex-mattress?model=9000
For $1375, I could build 6 inches of natural Talalay latex, with wool quilt and cotton cover. This sounds amazing for someone who wants to sleep cool. Is there any downsides to full on 6 inches of Talalay latex for both support cores and comfort layers? I know for myself, I should be on a thin and soft comfort layer. It seems like this would make sense on paper since 100% NR Talalay is the highest quality material you can get here vs 100% Dunlop or blended Talalay.

2. www.sleepez.com/products/8-inch-latex-mattress

Same as above but comes with 2 inches of Talalay and 6 inches of Dunlop for $1245.

3. Brooklyn Bedding


I linked this in my previous reply but you were writing your post while I was also writing mine so I'll include it in this reply as well ...

There is more information about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or the exchange/return options that are available to you).

Both SleepEZ and Brooklyn Bedding are members of this site which means that I think very highly of both of them and I believe that they both compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

The two SleepEZ mattresses you are considering are "all latex" mattresses and the BestMattressEver is a latex/polyfoam hybrid. You can read more about the pros and cons of a polyfoam hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here .

The choice between different types and blends of latex in any layer of a mattress is more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice. There is more about how Dunlop and Talalay compare in post #7 here .

The SleepEZ mattresses are component mattresses with a zip cover so they have more options to change or customize the comfort and support of the mattress by rearranging or exchanging layers both before and after a purchase. They have a good return policy as well but there is a small cost involved if you are one of the small minority that ends up needing to return the mattress. A component mattress also has the advantage of being able to replace a single layer if one of the layers softens or breaks down before the others (usually the softer top layer) or if your needs and preferences change over time without having to replace the entire mattress.

The BestMattressEver has three different firmness choices and also has a great return policy that allows you to donate or return the mattress if your choice doesn't turn out to be as suitable as you hoped for without any cost involved. There is also more information about the BestMattressEver in post #2 here in the simplified choice mattress topic.

While I can't speak to how any mattress will "feel" for someone else in terms of firmness, "comfort", or PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances ... outside of PPP (which is all about how well you will sleep on a mattress) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is it's durability and in terms of durability a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality and durability of the materials inside it (which is all about how long you will sleep well) regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label.

Neither of the SleepEz mattresses or the BestMattressEver have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress.

Forum searches on SleepEz and on BestMattressEver or a specific term site search on Best Mattress Ever (you can just click the links) will also bring up many more comments and feedback on the forum about both of them.

4. helixsleep.com/


There are also some comments about the Helix Sleep mattress in post #2 here of the simplified choice mattress topic and a forum search on helix (you can just click the link) will also bring up a few more comments and feedback about it as well. Their mattress isn't 100% Dunlop but they do have one layer in their mattress that uses blended Dunlop latex (not 100% natural Dunlop). You can also read more about microcoils in this article and in post #8 here and post #2 here .

Since all of these are online mattresses ... when you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Once you have narrowed down your options to a list of finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and none of them have any lower quality materials or "weak links" in their design and if there are no clear winners between them (which is usually a good indication that you have done some very good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences for different types of materials, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status, Removed Page link of former member

Could use some advice on a new mattress...returned my Kingsdown today... 15 Oct 2015 10:55 #10

Hi logicgaming,

I think as an owner of a new Kingsdown mattress myself, you have made a wise decision to back away from their products. Deep impressions and hump in middle within 2 weeks. Looking for new mattress now.

I am new this site myself and have found more knowledge and good information here than all other sources combined! Good luck.

Many thanks to Phoenix and supporting group for info and this site!

Keith

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