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New Latex Mattress = New Lower Back Pain

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25 Jan 2016 19:01 #11 by shaxpere
Here are the tags on the mattress, which is a Classic 8:





And here is the tag on the Comfort Pillow:

Attachments:

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25 Jan 2016 19:10 - 13 Dec 2018 18:01 #12 by Phoenix
Hi shaxpere,

Thanks for posting the pictures ... I appreciate it.

The law labels you posted also don't appear to comply with US uniform law label regulations either partly because they are listing a material that isn't approved for use on a law label and partly because they don't list the percentage of the filling material by weight

Phoenix

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Last edit: 13 Dec 2018 18:01 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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25 Jan 2016 19:13 #13 by shaxpere
Yeah, I saw the discussion about the Opus Energie law tag in another thread. I had wondered about that when I first saw them. Both the mattress and pillow are purportedly a combination of Dunlop latex and memory foam.

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25 Jan 2016 19:45 - 25 Jan 2016 19:45 #14 by Phoenix
Hi shaxpere,

Your law tags appear to be describing the Baby Jeanius IQ crib mattress which uses .5" of their so called "natural latex memory foam" with a compressed layer of organic cotton underneath it rather than the Classic 8 which uses 2" of the so called "natural latex memory foam" and a 6" zoned natural Dunlop latex support core underneath it. The first picture also says "this mattress is intended to be used without a foundation and only with the Leander crib".

Very odd!

Phoenix

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2016 19:45 by Phoenix.

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26 Jan 2016 17:25 - 13 Dec 2018 05:28 #15 by shaxpere
Huh, I was focused on the materials and didn't even notice that. I wondered why cotton was listed in the filler. Very strange. Also, I just got an email from Essentia HQ answering direct questions about the percentage of latex in the memory foam, and whether they consider it organic:

Please see a full list of ingredients used to make our latex based memory foam along with ingredients used to make other mattress components on the market.

One of things we do know as foamers, is that to convert rubber tree sap into latex foam requires foaming agents which are synthetic. All-natural foam just doesn't exist. This is why we never call our foam "all natural". We do however stand behind it as a healthy, natural and uber comfortable foam.

Our latex is also sourced from GOLS certified suppliers.

Last edit: 13 Dec 2018 05:28 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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26 Jan 2016 19:31 - 26 Jan 2016 19:33 #16 by Phoenix
Hi shaxpere,

Our latex is also sourced from GOLS certified suppliers


If their latex core is GOLS certified organic then they should be able to show you the GOLS certification.


From their site:

As technology improved, Dunlop latex evolved and caught up in terms of performance, durability and consistency. Today, Talalay is still the softer latex foam but it remains highly synthetic. That's why GOLS certified latex doesn't exist, it exceeds the allowable synthetic ingredients tolerated by the GOLS certification.


Assuming that they are only referring to Talalay latex here (because GIOLS certified Dunlop latex certainly esxists) ... while it's true that there currently isn't any organic certified Talalay latex there is certainly 100% natural Talalay that would meet the 95% natural rubber criteria that would be required for an organic certification if they were using USDA organic certified field latex to make it. The primary reason that Talalay manufacturers don't produce GOLS certified Talalay latex isn't because they couldn't but because of supply issues and transportation issues. Unlike many Dunlop manufacturers, Talalay latex isn't manufactured close to the plantations that produce the latex (the two manufacturers that make it are in Holland and the USA) and any organic raw field latex and any organic finished latex cores can't be be included on the same shipment or made in the same factory as other types or blends of latex because of "cross contamination" which would be impractical.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 26 Jan 2016 19:33 by Phoenix.

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05 Feb 2020 13:51 #17 by alikigia
Hello,

I found this website after I had already purchased a myessentia mattress back in 2012. I had purchased their softest model first and returned it because there was no support at all. The classic 8 was ok at first but I feel again that there isn’t any support. I also experienced lower back and hip pain. I like the softness of the top layer because I need pressure relief but am tired of the memory foam feel. I purchased a loom and leaf relaxed firm and loved it at first but have returned it because some days it would get so soft my hips would dip too far in (and mind you I only weigh 130 and am 5ft4) and I would feel a hard layer that would cause a lot of pressure in my hip. Now I’m thinking, after reading virtually all the content on this website (I just thought of this site again recently and that’s what helped me make the decision to return the loom and leaf, because it does indeed have a weak link) could I do something to the myessentia mattress to salvage it? The latex side of it is said by the company to be a medium firm (I contacted them but they won’t disclose the ILD nor the density of the base 6” of latex they used in 2012 to make it) so what could I add to this mattress to make it more supportive? Mind you it’s not supportive but also doesn’t provide enough pressure relief. I go numb very easily and need pressure relief cause of severe nerve pains. Would a wool topper and a firmer layer of latex underneath the myessentia do the trick? If so, how many inches of wool on top and how many layers of wool is needed? (also is cuddlewe a good brand for wool toppers cause I find them to be more affordable and they offer returns on a used topper). Would a latex/wool combo topper be better? Would plain latex work to relieve the pressure and would a firmer layer on the bottom help to provide more support? How thick would that bottom layer need to be? Again, I don’t want that sinking in feeling of memory foam anymore it keeps me up at night but I love the pressure relieving properties of memory foam because it really does do the best job for me and my tendencies to go numb often throughout various parts of my body. Any suggestions or information would be so greatly appreciated!!! This mattress coat so much money I’d love to know if and how I can salvage it to sleep on it! By the way it has held up having been moved about the house a million times and slept on for 8 years it’s the same today as it was a few months after we got it so I think the latex used is good and sturdy and not finicky. Thanks for your input and time!

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07 Feb 2020 12:17 #18 by Sensei
Hey alikigia,

Welcome to the TMU Forum :) ! Good to hear you are finding the site helpful in your comfort layer research and thanks for your question.

I found this website after I had already purchased a myessentia mattress back in 2012. I had purchased their softest model first and returned it because there was no support at all. The classic 8 was ok at first but I feel again that there isn’t any support. I also experienced lower back and hip pain. I like the softness of the top layer because I need pressure relief but am tired of the memory foam feel.


Comfort layers consist of the upper few inches of a mattress and are primarily responsible for pressure relief, one of the main functions of all mattresses. The comfort layers also include any quilting layers used in the top most part of a mattress as they act together to give a mattress its pressure relieving qualities. This topic is discussed in detail in "Mattress comfort layers - Overview", you may find the info on different materials and different constructions of interest.

There are different qualities or grades of memory foam and 5.0 lbs per cubic foot and higher is considered to be the highest quality, 4.0 - 4.9 is mid range, and 3.0 - 3.9 is lower quality (generally used for toppers or lower budget mattresses). Essentia is one of the only companies in North America that pours their own foams. Their web site describes their memory foam as "a natural memory foam made using hevea milk, the sap from a rubber tree, combined with other ingredients." While we can't be sure of the 2012 component formulation, the current Classic 8 mattress features 2" of their natural memory foam over a 6" "natural Hevea Latex Support Foam", with the 2" memory foam comfort layer at 6.25 lbs per cubic feet, placing it in a high-grade quality construction. Higher grades are more durable and will keep their qualities for longer than lower grades but will not generally last as long as innersprings, latex foam, or natural fibers. Strangely enough, higher density memory foam can feel softer as it "melts" or softens with body heat than lower density memory foams which are often either too soft ("melt" too easily) or too firm (like a light styrofoam) depending on how they are made.

could I do something to the myessentia mattress to salvage it? The latex side of it is said by the company to be a medium firm (I contacted them but they won’t disclose the ILD nor the density of the base 6” of latex they used in 2012 to make it) so what could I add to this mattress to make it more supportive? Mind you it’s not supportive but also doesn’t provide enough pressure relief. I go numb very easily and need pressure relief cause of severe nerve pains. Would a wool topper and a firmer layer of latex underneath the myessentia do the trick?


What is your experience with wool? As a natural fiber, it has a unique "feel" and properties; you may find it sleeps "warmer" or "cooler", changing the sleep environment you currently have. You could try adding a wool topper, or any variety construction of toppers, keeping in mind that using a topper to correct comfort problems with an older bed is a short-term fix, IMO. Adding a layer of latex underneath the mattress would not solve the comfort layer problem you're having and would possibly void the mattress warranty, the site is quite specific about the base set up of their products. When you reached out to myessentia, did they offer any thoughts or customer service support?

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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07 Feb 2020 16:49 #19 by alikigia
Thank you so much for the thorough response, it is very helpful! You hit the nail on the head when you described that the higher the pounds of density the more ‘melt’ like feeling it has. I just discovered that today that this is what is bothering me so much about the comfort layer on the classic eight it’s got too much of the ‘melt’ for me and it doesn’t provide pressure relief because you feel that latex underneath quickly. It feels really good at first but within 30 minutes I start to get numbing sensations and I can’t reposition my hips in any way not to feel the numbness. So this really helped me figure out what the issue is with this mattress. Thanks so much!! I agree that the materials are high-quality although today I took the cover off to wash it and chunks of the latex around the edges looked like they were bitten off in various places at the edge of the mattress in the thin encasement that they have underneath the cover. Very strange. We moved a couple of times so maybe the way it was handled did that to the mattress, who knows. It may have been pulled on too much and pieces came off. Anyhow the company did finally say that the ILD of the Dunlop 6” base is 22. When I looked this up it says this is on the soft to mid support, although Dunlop is still more dense than Talalay so I’m not sure if I could really go by this ILD to tell me anything about it’s support. Would you say this ILD on this model is supportive enough for a 5ft3 130lb person? I think I just needed a firmer latex base with a four or 5 pound memory foam on top. Memory foam is the only thing I have experience with unfortunately. I do not have any experience with wool as a comfort layer. I wish there was a show room near me that I could try. If you know of any please let me know I’m in NYC. Like I mentioned in the previous post, cuddle we is the only company I found that will allow you to try it for 30 days and you can return it provided its stain free and no signs of wear and you pay for the shipping but I’m not sure if their topper is even a quality that I should get. They said it has three layers of wool batting they did not disclose if it’s pre-compressed but they did say that it starts off at 3 inches and will compress down to two. I see here the companies you all recommend have anywhere from 3-8 layers or pre-compressed batting. You mentioned in your response some thing that I would love some clarification on. You wrote that higher grades are more durable but will not last as long as latex foams inner springs or other natural fibers. Are you referring to higher grades of memory foam don’t last as long as latex comfort layers innersprings and other natural fibers? What type of latex foam would you recommend then that would feel more like four or 5 pound density memory foam? I also didn’t understand why you put innersprings in that sentence are you saying that inner springs on the bottom would just be more supportive than a latex core I think that’s what you’re trying to say I just wanted to clarify. So moving forward in your opinion do you think a hybrid mattress is the way to go with a wool layer on top of the latex comfort layer? I honestly never wanna go mattress shopping ever again after all of this but this website is extremely helpful and I’ve learned a lot I just want to get a good one now as I’m in my 40s and I don’t have time or energy to spend it on going crazy over a mattress and finding the best one or fighting with my existing one haha. Thank you so much for your thoughtful and thorough response I do greatly appreciate it it feels so good to know that there are people out there that are so knowledgeable and are so willing to disclose this valuable information thank you!!!

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11 Feb 2020 16:07 #20 by Sensei
Hey alikigia,

Thanks so much for your kind words on The Mattress Underground and for your question.

The company did finally say that the ILD of the Dunlop 6” base is 22. When I looked this up it says this is on the soft to mid support, although Dunlop is still more dense than Talalay so I’m not sure if I could really go by this ILD to tell me anything about it’s support. Would you say this ILD on this model is supportive enough for a 5ft3 130lb person?


Yes; Latex is available in a wide range of firmness levels, typically from 14 (super soft) to 44 ILD (super firm), and in different varieties (usually Dunlop or Talalay) and in natural or blended versions (as well as a less desirable completely synthetic version) which makes it possible to choose a support or comfort layer that is suitable for any set of sleeping conditions, body profile, weight distribution, and sleeping style, and using any layering method of mattress construction.

I do not have any experience with wool as a comfort layer. I wish there was a show room near me that I could try. If you know of any please let me know I’m in NYC.


In the NYC area, you have many options for testing mattresses featuring natural materials, wool in particular in their comfort layers, as well as asking questions regarding your comfort preferences. You could test in department stores such as Macy's or Bloomingdale's. Mattress Firm is easily available, as are furniture stores. There are also several luxury mattress stores specializing in all natural materials and handmade constructions, such as Duxiana, Hästens and Savoir, not exactly everyday mattresses but perhaps interesting for comparing the feel of wool.

You mentioned in your response some thing that I would love some clarification on. You wrote that higher grades are more durable but will not last as long as latex foams inner springs or other natural fibers. Are you referring to higher grades of memory foam don’t last as long as latex comfort layers innersprings and other natural fibers? I also didn’t understand why you put innersprings in that sentence are you saying that inner springs on the bottom would just be more supportive than a latex core I think that’s what you’re trying to say I just wanted to clarify.


To clarify: I was speaking in terms of memory foam's overall longevity as a component in mattress layers. In the case of your myessentia (to be clear, I have no experience with this manufacturer and am relying on specs from their web site), memory foam is not mentioned in the support layer, only in the comfort layer. While their 2" memory foam comfort layer is listed at 6.25 lbs per cubic feet/ a "high" grade quality, generally speaking memory foam is one of the lesser durable of other comfort layering materials in the long term. You can read more in this article, Five steps to your perfect mattress- Durability on a comparison of different types of mattress materials' comfort and support properties.

…in your opinion do you think a hybrid mattress is the way to go with a wool layer on top of the latex comfort layer?


That is a question that we will let our trusted members weigh in on, perhaps consumer subscribers too would have an opinion… ;) . Feel free to share more updates on your research.

Cheers,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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