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My Luxi experience and hybrid mattress questions

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18 Jan 2016 19:55 #1 by DMSexton47
After sleeping on a bare-bones 20-year old innerspring mattress for most of my life, I finally decided to purchase a new mattress to improve my sleep quality and attempt to alleviate some of my sleep problems (lower back pain and RLS among others). After researching mattresses for months, going to different stores and scouring the internet (including reading several MU posts and articles), I decided I wanted to go with an online "bed in a box" retailer due to the price and ease of delivery.

Then I happened across Luxisleep, and it seemed perfect. It had mem foam AND latex, and the proprietary foam column layer intrigued the engineer in me. Plus with the three firmness options, (considering I had no idea what firmness I liked even after all the store surfing) it seemed like I couldn't go wrong. So after talking to a customer service rep and confirming the materials were high quality (with densities, etc), I ordered one.

...and I'm thoroughly disappointed and once again mattress hunting. The Luxi mattress seems well constructed and it was a cool experience watching something go from minifridge-sized box to queen sized mattress in a couple of minutes, but I find myself missing my old crappy mattress whenever I lay down on it. It feels nothing like the mem foam and latex mattresses I had previously tried, and each firmness configuration comes with it's own set of problems. The firm is way too firm, the medium is still firmer than I'd like and feels like sleeping on a brick of modeling clay, and the soft, while comfortable at first, creates strange pressure points on my back due to the nature of the individual foam columns either buckling completely or not at all.

I've settled on the medium for now, and while I have noticed that my back is much better supported than on my old mattress (and my back pain has been improving), it just doesn't have the overall comfort I'm looking for. Plus when I jump into bed, I realize midair that I'm no longer on an innerspring, and I meet the dull and unyielding slab with a painful "oomph!" Needless to say, I will be taking them up on that 100 day return policy.

But now I'm back to square one, mattress hunting again. My apologies for the wall of text, let me get to the real reason I'm posting this:

After some more mattress surfing, I've discovered I really like the feel of mem foam / coil hybrids in the medium-soft firmness level. In particular, I found I liked the Stearns and Foster Port au Prince I tried at my local Mattress King. $2000 isn't out of the question, but I'd prefer not to spend that much if I don't have to, plus I really enjoyed the convenience of the bed-in-a-box setup. So today I came across the new Alexander Hybrid mattress, and was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how the Alexander Hybrid compares to a S&F Port au Prince or similar hybrid mattresses, or even a Tempur Flex Supreme, which I found had a similar feel.

So the short version:

-Has anyone here had any experience with the Alexander Hybrid yet?
-How do you think it would compare to the S&F Port au Prince?
-And one other question: is a hybrid coil mattress like the Alexander Hybrid (or S&F PaP) compatible with slats? (2.5" apart)

Thanks so much for your time

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18 Jan 2016 20:53 - 18 Jan 2016 20:55 #2 by Phoenix
Hi DMSezton47,

I'm sorry to hear that your Luxisleep mattress didn't work out as well as you hoped. You can see some of my comments about it here and it certainly is a unique design and uses good quality materials but as you probably know "comfort" is very subjective and a mattress that is "perfect" for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on.

I'm not sure how long you have had your mattress but I would also keep in mind that there will be a break in and adjustment period with any new mattress (see post #3 here ) and you will need to sleep on it for 30 days before you can return it and it can sometimes be surprising how much your sleeping experience can change over the first few weeks. What you are feeling may just be part of the adjustment period of getting used to a sleeping system that is different from what you are used to and I would also keep in mind that you can't "feel" a mattress when you are sleeping and that good support/alignment (and in your case the improvement of your back pain) and good pressure relief are always more important to sleep quality and sleeping "symptom free" than more subjective perceptions of "comfort" or "feel". Sometimes what we like is a function of familiarity and can be different from what we "need".

After some more mattress surfing, I've discovered I really like the feel of mem foam / coil hybrids in the medium-soft firmness level. In particular, I found I liked the Stearns and Foster Port au Prince I tried at my local Mattress King. $2000 isn't out of the question, but I'd prefer not to spend that much if I don't have to


There is more information about the 3 most important parts of "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While I can't speak to how any mattress will "feel" for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances ... outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the quality/durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

All the major brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay and I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (and the major retailers that focus on them) along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

So today I came across the new Alexander Hybrid mattress, and was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how the Alexander Hybrid compares to a S&F Port au Prince or similar hybrid mattresses, or even a Tempur Flex Supreme, which I found had a similar feel.

-How do you think it would compare to the S&F Port au Prince?


There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses.

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer. While you may find some local or online mattresses that use "somewhat similar" materials or designs and there would be others that are in the same general category but have a different design that could be in a similar firmness range ... they will generally have different combinations of layers and components and will likely have a different "feel".

Unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP (or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

If you know the specifications of all the materials and layers in two mattresses you are comparing (see this article ) then making durability comparisons based on the specifications of the materials and components in both mattresses is simpler than trying to compare "comfort" and PPP (which is much more subjective) but the durability of the materials in a mattress has very little to do with how a mattress will feel or performs because lower quality and more durable materials can feel the same as higher quality and more durable materials when they are new ... they just won't maintain their comfort and support for as long.

In other words ... the short version of all of this is that if there are any differences in the design and components of two mattresses you are comparing (which there are) then the only reliable way to know how they would compare to another mattress for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (regardless of how they would compare for anyone else) would be based on your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience on both of them.

In terms of the quality/durability of the materials ... the Alexander Hybrid Signature Select mattress uses good quality materials (4 lb memory foam with a 1.5" quilting layer) and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress unless you are in a higher weight range (mid 200's or higher) where I would reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foam.

The Tempur Flex supreme uses a 1.2" layer of 5.3 lb memory foam but it has a 2.5" layer of 1.6 lb polyfoam underneath this which is a little lower quality/density material than I would normally suggest (especially in this budget range) and could be a weak link in the mattress so I would be very cautious here both for budget and "value" reasons and because of the quality/density of the materials.

-Has anyone here had any experience with the Alexander Hybrid yet?


Hopefully any of the members here that have purchased it will see your post and share their experiences but I would be very cautious about using other people's experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range or have a similar sleeping style) and reviews in general certainly won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with such as Tempurpedic) than anyone else.

Nest Bedding also has a 101 day trial period with free returns so you can test the mattress in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk outside of the time you spent sleeping on it and/or returning it if that becomes necessary so you can see how suitable the mattress is for you regardless of whether the same choice would be suitable for someone else.

-And one other question: is a hybrid coil mattress like the Alexander Hybrid (or S&F PaP) compatible with slats? (2.5" apart)


It would be a good idea to check with them to confirm this and make sure that it meets their specific warranty criteria but I would think that it would probably be fine.

Phoenix

PS: I think that the "wall of text" in my reply is longer than yours :)

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Last edit: 18 Jan 2016 20:55 by Phoenix.

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19 Jan 2016 06:54 #3 by DMSexton47
Thanks for the response, and the heads up on S&F's potentially low-quality materials. I had my suspicions but wasn't sure. The last thing I want to do is spend $2K on a mattress that will be dead in 5 years. Also, I contacted nest bedding about the slats question and am awaiting their response.

Phoenix wrote: I'm not sure how long you have had your mattress but I would also keep in mind that there will be a break in and adjustment period with any new mattress (see post #3 here ) and you will need to sleep on it for 30 days before you can return it and it can sometimes be surprising how much your sleeping experience can change over the first few weeks. What you are feeling may just be part of the adjustment period of getting used to a sleeping system that is different from what you are used to and I would also keep in mind that you can't "feel" a mattress when you are sleeping and that good support/alignment (and in your case the improvement of your back pain) and good pressure relief are always more important to sleep quality and sleeping "symptom free" than more subjective perceptions of "comfort" or "feel". Sometimes what we like is a function of familiarity and can be different from what we "need".


I've been sleeping on it for two weeks so far, and while it's true that my back is improving, the rest of me isn't faring so well. I feel the mattress does a poor job of pressure relief, and I've been tossing and turning all night and waking up really sore. Combine that with the general unresponsiveness of the mattress and getting out of bed in the mornings has been a herculean feat, for all the wrong reasons. :P

I don't think it's unrealistic to want a bed that can support my back and still feel soft / relieve pressure. At the very least, the Luxi mattress has been valuable in showing me what I want to avoid in a mattress. And if the Alexander Hybrid is even in the ballpark of other hybrids I've tried, (which the materials and construction seem to indicate) then I think I'll be much better off.

Am I required to sleep on it 30 days before they'll let me return it?

Phoenix wrote: PS: I think that the "wall of text" in my reply is longer than yours :)


Fair enough :lol:

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19 Jan 2016 10:51 #4 by zexpress
If it helps I ordered the Alexander Hybrid last week and should have it on Thursday. I will try and report back after the weekend to give any initial impressions. Obviously I will only be able to speak for how it works out for me but I can at least give some general comparisons to other mattresses.

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19 Jan 2016 11:04 #5 by Phoenix
Hi DMSexton47,

I've been sleeping on it for two weeks so far, and while it's true that my back is improving, the rest of me isn't faring so well. I feel the mattress does a poor job of pressure relief, and I've been tossing and turning all night and waking up really sore. Combine that with the general unresponsiveness of the mattress and getting out of bed in the mornings has been a herculean feat, for all the wrong reasons. :P


I would probably suggest a phone conversation with Luxisleep since they may have some suggestions that may be helpful to improve your sleeping experience. Soreness is certainly one of the potential "symptoms" during the break in and adjustment period but it may also be that you are using a configuration that isn't the most suitable for you and if you spend a few weeks on a different and more suitable configuration then your experience may improve. Of course it's also possible that none of the configurations will be suitable for you (although that would be somewhat uncommon). It would be very uncommon that the firm configuration was the most suitable choice so I would probably focus more on the soft and medium configuration.

I would also keep in mind that if you are using a mattress protector or a mattress pad that this can also have an effect on how the mattress feels and responds and I would also make sure that you are using a suitable foundation as well (a firm, flat, non yielding support surface similar to the floor that doesn't allow any sagging in the mattress)

There is also more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here that may be helpful as well.

I don't think it's unrealistic to want a bed that can support my back and still feel soft / relieve pressure. At the very least, the Luxi mattress has been valuable in showing me what I want to avoid in a mattress. And if the Alexander Hybrid is even in the ballpark of other hybrids I've tried, (which the materials and construction seem to indicate) then I think I'll be much better off.


It's certainly possible that a mattress can have firm support and still "feel" soft and relieve pressure at the same time and the goal of every mattress purchase is to make sure that is provides both good support/alignment and good pressure relief because these are the are the two basic "needs" of a mattress and are the main factors that affect the quality of your sleep (much more than the more subjective "feel" of a mattress). "Support" is often misunderstood because the goal of a "supportive" mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more (softer) and some parts of the body to sink in less (firmer) and this will vary on an individual basis. There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support/alignment" and "comfort/pressure relief" and "feel" and how they interact together.

As I mentioned in my last reply there are also different types of firmness or softness that different people may be sensitive to that will affect how they "rate" the firmness of a mattress.

And if the Alexander Hybrid is even in the ballpark of other hybrids I've tried, (which the materials and construction seem to indicate) then I think I'll be much better off.


I would keep in mind that while the specs of a mattress can tell you about the quality and durability of the materials ... they will tell you very little about the firmness of a mattress or how a mattress "feels" so I would make sure that you talk to them on the phone before a purchase.

Am I required to sleep on it 30 days before they'll let me return it?


Yes ... you can see their return policy here . Most manufacturers have a minimum requirement because it's so common that the first few days or weeks of sleeping on a mattress aren't a reliable indication of how they will sleep in the longer term once the mattress has broken in and their body has become used to a mattress that is different from what they are used to.

Phoenix

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19 Jan 2016 12:15 #6 by DMSexton47
Yes, zexpress, that would be great. I hope the new mattress works out for you!

Phoenix wrote: I would probably suggest a phone conversation with Luxisleep since they may have some suggestions that may be helpful to improve your sleeping experience. Soreness is certainly one of the potential "symptoms" during the break in and adjustment period but it may also be that you are using a configuration that isn't the most suitable for you and if you spend a few weeks on a different and more suitable configuration then your experience may improve. Of course it's also possible that none of the configurations will be suitable for you (although that would be somewhat uncommon). It would be very uncommon that the firm configuration was the most suitable choice so I would probably focus more on the soft and medium configuration.

I would also keep in mind that if you are using a mattress protector or a mattress pad that this can also have an effect on how the mattress feels and responds and I would also make sure that you are using a suitable foundation as well (a firm, flat, non yielding support surface similar to the floor that doesn't allow any sagging in the mattress)


I have a wool mattress protector on it, but I haven't noticed a difference with/without it. Also, it's on a solid wood platform bed with rock solid slats, so I should be covered there. I slept on the soft configuration for a few days, but the uneven feel of the foam columns proved too uncomfortable for me, so I switched it back to medium and have been sleeping on that for a couple weeks. I haven't tried the firm configuration, but since I already feel the medium is too firm, that seems like a pointless endeavor.

Phoenix wrote: Yes ... you can see their return policy here . Most manufacturers have a minimum requirement because it's so common that the first few days or weeks of sleeping on a mattress aren't a reliable indication of how they will sleep in the longer term once the mattress has broken in and their body has become used to a mattress that is different from what they are used to.


Ah, thanks, I had missed the 30 day part. Well, I'll give it another couple weeks and mess around with the configuration some more. Thanks so much for the help.

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19 Jan 2016 13:14 - 19 Jan 2016 15:19 #7 by Phoenix
Hi DMSexton47,

I have a wool mattress protector on it, but I haven't noticed a difference with/without it. Also, it's on a solid wood platform bed with rock solid slats, so I should be covered there. I slept on the soft configuration for a few days, but the uneven feel of the foam columns proved too uncomfortable for me, so I switched it back to medium and have been sleeping on that for a couple weeks. I haven't tried the firm configuration, but since I already feel the medium is too firm, that seems like a pointless endeavor.


I agree that the firm would probably be a pointless endeavor and based on the odds ... the medium would probably cover the single largest part of the bell curve that would be suitable for the most people followed by the soft.

If the distance between your slats os 4" or less and there is no flex in the slats (similar to the floor) then it's also unlikely that your experience would be related to the support system under your mattress.

While you may not feel the difference initially ... a thicker wool mattress protector or mattress pad can also affect the feel and response of the mattress and in some cases can interfere with the ability of the comfort layers to contour to the shape of your body which may have some effect on support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief. It may also have a bigger effect on how you feel when you wake up in the morning than what you feel when you first go to sleep at night. A thicker protector or mattress pad may also extend the length of time that it takes for the mattress to break in. It may be worthwhile trying the mattress for a few nights without it to see if it makes any difference.

Ah, thanks, I had missed the 30 day part. Well, I'll give it another couple weeks and mess around with the configuration some more. Thanks so much for the help.


There are also some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful but I would make sure that you make a point of calling and talking with them because they have a great deal of experience in the industry and may be able to identify some changes and/or make some effective suggestions that will help you as well.

Of course the worst case is that nothing works out as well as you hope and then in 30 days you can just return the mattress for a refund but even if none of options you have work well for you if you spend some time testing the different options that you have available it can also contribute to your learning curve about the type of mattress that will end up having better odds of success.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 19 Jan 2016 15:19 by Phoenix.

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25 Jan 2016 08:35 #8 by rweb82
That's too bad that the Luxi mattress didn't work out for you. I have been sleeping on my Luxi for about 1 1/2 weeks, and am loving it so far. It just goes to show you how subjective comfort is. I have found the "medium" to be ideal for my sleep habits. However to me, it actually feels quite a bit softer than I what I would have considered to be "medium." I am 6'1" and 190lbs- so I expect to sink into a mattress a little more than most.

But as the case for any mattress, you really need to give it a few weeks to see how you adjust to it. Not all memory foams/latex foams are the same. And each company uses a different make-up of materials. So our ideas for what memory foam should feel like are really limited to what we have been exposed. I will admit that the Luxi did not feel how I expected it to- based on all of my research. I expected it to have more bounce; and at first was a little disappointed that it wasn't bouncier (I even thought that perhaps my mattress was defective). However, after almost two weeks I cannot deny that (for me) it is very comfortable, it has significantly reduced my back pain, and I am sleeping much better than I did on my previous mattress.

Good luck in finding the right fit for you. But for any mattress, I would advise to give it at least one month before jumping to any solid conclusions. These companies have a great trial period; so don't be afraid to use it!

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25 Jan 2016 11:16 - 25 Jan 2016 11:19 #9 by Phoenix
Hi rweb82,

Thanks for sharing your experiences ... and congratulations on your new mattress :)

Your comments have some of the "tone" of someone in the industry that is making suggestions to a customer (or potential customer) rather than a consumer that is just sharing their experience and it's somewhat unusual that a member's first post here is providing advice rather than looking for advice so just for the sake of transparency (and the forum rules ) I would appreciate it if you could confirm that you don't have any industry affiliations (or disclose your role or position in the industry if you do).

Phoenix

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Last edit: 25 Jan 2016 11:19 by Phoenix.

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28 Jan 2016 08:25 #10 by rweb82
Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for the welcome! I apologize if my post had certain "tones" behind it. I can confirm that I have absolutely no affiliation with Luxi or any other brand in the industry. I am just a consumer, plain and simple. The purpose of my post was to show that my own experience with Luxi was a little rocky at first- as the mattress did not meet my own expectations I had for it); but my experience vastly improved once I removed my own preconceptions from my assessment.

As for longevity in forums, I have played guitar for 22 years, but do not participate in any "guitar" forums. I couldn't imagine being required to play the "noob" role just because I finally join a guitar forum and start interacting. So I think it's important to point out that longevity in a forum is in no way an indicator of a person's level of expertise regarding any subject. That said, I do not claim to be a mattress expert here! :) I merely wanted to affirm the OP's dilemma, but to also demonstrate that there may be hope that he quite possibly may end up liking the mattress after some time with it. My post was more for encouragement than anything else. .

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