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aireloom onyx dusk 29 May 2016 18:21 #1

My wife and I tried many aireloom mattresses and liked the aireloom onyx dusk. A question was raised about how its made - see. We tried several including the aireloom Bel Aire ($12k or so) and for us the Onyx Dusk was the most comfortable. We did not like the Spink and Edgar nor any of the Visprings - too hard. Would it concern anyone that not all of the latex is Centipur certified? Is that a deal breaker? Any other comments before we order it? We're in S. Calif. so its not possible to visit Conn, NJ etc makers and my wife is adamant - if we can't test it, we don't buy it.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sitnsleep.com/aireloom-onyx-dusk-preferred-moonlight-collection


steve

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aireloom onyx dusk 29 May 2016 18:42 #2

Hi sdemmet,

Would it concern anyone that not all of the latex is Centipur certified? Is that a deal breaker?


CertiPUR is a certification that only applies to polyfoam and memory foam so latex never has a CertiPUR certification.

Having said that ... all the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, and Greenguard Gold (see post #2 here ) and C2C (see post #13 here ) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's.

Any other comments before we order it? We're in S. Calif. so its not possible to visit Conn, NJ etc makers and my wife is adamant - if we can't test it, we don't buy it.


Aireloom typically isn't transparent about the materials in their mattresses and in general are one of the manufacturers that I would tend to avoid (see this article )

There is more information about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If for any reason a retailer or manufacturer is either unwilling or unable to provide you with all the information you need about the materials and components inside a mattress you are considering to make an informed choice and to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses (which is most likely with Aireloom) ... I would avoid the mattress completely because the risk of purchasing it would be much too high.

I would also make sure that you've read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

If you let me know your city or zip code I'd also be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

Phoenix
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aireloom onyx dusk 29 May 2016 19:37 #3

thank you for this information. i do believe that the mattress information is listed on the site
but i don't know if this is detailed enough . we live in 92024 but can travel anyplace in the san diego and s. california. i prefer to be south of los angeles
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sitnsleep.com/aireloom-onyx-dusk-preferred-moonlight-collection

steve

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aireloom onyx dusk 29 May 2016 20:17 #4

Hi sdemmet,

thank you for this information. i do believe that the mattress information is listed on the site
sitnsleep.com/aireloom-onyx-dusk-pre...moonlight-collection but i don't know if this is detailed enough

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sitnsleep.com/aireloom-onyx-dusk-pre...moonlight-collection


Unfortunately the description on the site doesn't contain meaningful information about materials and components in their mattress that would allow you to identify any lower quality materials or weak links in their mattress (see this article for the information you need). In particular the thickness and density of any polyfoam and memory foam layers are particularly important (and are completely missing from the description). Again I would normally avoid Aireloom mattresses ... particularly when they contain any "unknown" memory foam or polyfoam layers that are very likely to be low quality/density and less durable materials.

we live in 92024 but can travel anyplace in the san diego and s. california. i prefer to be south of los angeles


Subject to confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list you wish to deal with is completely transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked in my previous reply ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the San Diego/Escondido areas are listed in post #2 here .

The list for the Greater Los Angeles region is in post #2 here .

Phoenix
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aireloom onyx dusk 15 Jun 2016 14:32 #5

I"ve been visiting the purveyors you so kindly listed and have a few comments so far:

1) Pure rest: They say they sell on Dunlop latex so I haven't visited them
2) Scripps Natural is a tiny one room outfit whose owner apparently lives close by and comes when you call him. He does have a latex mattress, available with a 3" latex top but the combination was too 'squishy' for us; when one moved the other person jiggled, almost like a water bed. This combo was about $3,000. The combination of talalay and box spring was about $1600 and more comfortable but not magical
3) The visit to Comfortpedic was interesting. When I said I wanted a pure latex Talalay, he said that Talalay is not pure latex; when I differed he looked at me said I could leave! I immediately liked him! He spent several hours with us showing us "pure latex" which his company calls "Laytex", allegedly straight from the tree with no chemicals addes, and samples of talalay and dunlop. To my untutored eyes they were indeed clearly different. He also showed us 4 varieties of box springs and again the differences were night and day in the thickness of the coils and how they were tied together and backed up his statements with ads from trade journals showing indeed that the thinner not as well tied together box springs were the standards of the industry. The ones they use look like they could support a tank! The test of course is the sleeping; we tried various combinations of "laytex" and box springs and liked their all "laytex" bed best. It is however about 17" but he says it can be made thinner with the same comfort level as their engineers can use varying quantities of denser and not as dense "laytex" to allegedly give the same feel.

He also showed us electrical beds but said that if we wanted either a queen or two twins they could only be about 14" if i remember correctly. The "Rolls Royce" is allegedly the 'ergo motion' one and he says it is no more expensive than a 'lesser quality' - about $1100 each for twins, about $1800 for a queen. Obviously the twins have the advantage of being individually adjustable. Incidentally a king sized bed of the "pure laytex" is about $4500 as I recollect. Oh and for about $350 in the future they could cut the king sized in 1/2 and make two twins if we needed separately adjustable beds in the future!

So my question is:
1) what is "pure laytex" and does it differ from talalay? If so how do they have it in different densities?

it was an interesting experience; we'll visit more on the list this week.

steve

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aireloom onyx dusk 15 Jun 2016 15:12 #6

Hi sdemmet,

1) what is "pure laytex" and does it differ from talalay? If so how do they have it in different densities?


You were getting some misinformation. "Laytex" is just a different and less commonly used spelling for "latex".

"Latex" just means a rubber particle suspended in water so "pure latex" would apply equally to latex made from synthetic rubber, natural rubber, or a blend of both. Latex layers can be made either using the Dunlop process or the Talalay process and either one can use natural rubber, synthetic rubber, or a blend of both.

Latex that is made completely from natural rubber (either Dunlop or Talalay) and doesn't contain any synthetic latex in the mix is generally referred to as 100% natural latex although there are also some other "ingredients" that are used in the formulation to make it possible to turn the liquid latex into a foamed latex layer (see post #18 here ).

All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold (see post #2 here ) or C2C (see post #13 here ) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's.

The choice between different types and blends of latex is also more of a preference and budget choice rather than a "better/worse" choice and any type or blend of latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam materials. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about how Dunlop compares to Talalay in general in post #7 here but the best way to know which type or blend of latex you tend to prefer will be based on your own testing and/or your own personal experience.

Different densities of latex are the result of different amounts of air in the formulation, the size of the pincores in the latex, the amount of natural or synthetic latex in the formulation, and the type of latex (Talalay or Dunlop). Higher densities of the same type and blend of latex will be firmer than lower densities. Natural latex is heavier than synthetic latex and Dunlop is denser than Talalay in the same firmness level because of the differences in how it is made so density comparisons between different types and blends of latex aren't a reliable way to compare their firmness.

He also showed us electrical beds but said that if we wanted either a queen or two twins they could only be about 14" if i remember correctly. The "Rolls Royce" is allegedly the 'ergo motion' one and he says it is no more expensive than a 'lesser quality' - about $1100 each for twins, about $1800 for a queen. Obviously the twins have the advantage of being individually adjustable. Incidentally a king sized bed of the "pure laytex" is about $4500 as I recollect. Oh and for about $350 in the future they could cut the king sized in 1/2 and make two twins if we needed separately adjustable beds in the future!


I would treat the purchase of an adjustable bed and a mattress as two separate purchases so you can decide which one of each you prefer and make apples to apples comparisons with each of them instead of being locked in to a combination where you may prefer either the mattress or the adjustable but not both (unless of course you would purchase the same mattress and adjustable from the same source if you were buying them separately anyway or you are receiving a discount for buying both that would make purchasing the combination purchase worthwhile for you). If a mattress works well on one adjustable bed then the same mattress will "work" just as well on any adjustable bed.

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). Of course there are many other sources as well and prices can change on a regular basis so I would also include some internet searching in your research. I would also keep in mind that online advertised prices are often price controlled so make sure you call the stores you are considering to find out their best prices rather than just looking at websites.

In general terms most foam mattresses (memory foam, latex foam, polyfoam) that aren't more than about 12" thick and most pocket coil mattresses will be flexible enough to work well on an adjustable bed but when you are over about 12" thick then the mattress may not contour to the adjustable bed as effectively. While in general terms thinner mattresses will tend to be more flexible than thicker mattresses and will contour to the adjustable bed more effectively ... this can also depend on the specifics of the mattress layers and components. 12" thickness is only a general guideline because some mattresses that are a little more than that which use more flexible materials may still be fine and some mattresses that are less than that may be less flexible and not work as well but 12" is a good general guideline.

Latex is certainly a very flexible material and works very well on an adjustable bed so a thicker latex mattress may contour more effectively than a thicker mattress that uses less flexible foam materials. The most reliable source of information about whether any specific mattress would be a suitable choice for an adjustable bed will be a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or the manufacturer that makes the mattress.

I would also make sure that you find out the specifics of every layer and component in any mattress you are considering (see this article ) so that you can make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress and make more meaningful comparisons with other similar mattresses that use the same or similar materials and components in their designs ... especially if you are looking at a mattress in the $4500 budget range..

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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