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Zenhaven Foundation

27 Sep 2018 09:55 #11 by Cloud999
Replied by Cloud999 on topic Zenhaven Foundation
Yes, I have a queen-sized Zenhaven (still in the trial period).
However, I did not buy their foundation. I have it on a platform bed frame, which has a solid metal-reinforced MDF surface.

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27 Sep 2018 15:54 #12 by sweetandsourkiwi
I just assumed the foundation would be designed to go with the mattress and didn't research it at all. It appears to be forcing the bed into a slight curve (photo attached). It's hard to tell if it's the mattress itself or the foundation, but I shone a light into the foundation and it appears to ONLY have crossways slats with no center bar. (Photo included. What looks like longways slats are actually reinforced tape or fabric strips, I think.)

I do have a center bar on the bedframe, but I think the top of the foundation is sagging. Unfortunately I can only sorta lift up one side of the weighs as much as I I can't take it off and see.

Full disclosure, I've only ever had free pile mattresses and am a Goodwill-shopping, beater-driving, cheap-apartment living thrifty person. This mattress cost more than my car and is the most expensive thing I've ever bought for myself by a landslide. I'm to the point where I'd like to just buy some nice sheets and move on in life; I am sleeping fine, I hate being this person who is nitpicking the product to death, but I guess I just thought a $2k mattress would be a really solid investment. The thought that I will have this until I'm 45 makes me hesitate on settling.

It's made with high quality materials and I like that Zenhaven has tried to bring them to the mass market/simplified choice. But there was something wrong with each component I received, from the topper being glued funny to the box spring not holding it up properly to the mattress being cut and sewn unevenly to the delivery team delivering it muddy. The little details no one would care about seemed to matter more with everything else wrong; like the logo being off center and the bed not sized correctly to the boxspring. I either really unlucked out, or had way too high of expectations, or they just have access to some great materials and meh manufacturing.

I threw out a Hail Mary to Saatva/Zenhaven just to see if that would help me decide how to proceed. I was kinda hoping they'd tell me it was okay to place it on the floor to see if it was the mattress or the boxspring. I'm beyond burned out on this process and research; if I had a great local manufacturer it'd be a sealed deal but I don't want to get into layer exchanges on a gambled bed bought out of town. (Part of why I bought ZH in the first place, also just didn't have any frame of reference back then.) I sent ZH pictures and they told me they were warranty-ing the entire bed with another sleep trial. o.O I was stunned. That's obviously *beyond* generous. But I'm not sure it's necessary. I'm honestly balking. They said this bed was defective, but it seems like it's the actual construction of the foundation that isn't working. I don't know that a new bed will fix that. And nothing's been made quite right...I'm not sure if another set of not-made-quite-right pieces helps my situation. They couldn't guarantee donating my current mattress, and might just throw my current bed away and the thought of a perfectly good, if not perfect, mattress rotting in a landfill, because of me, kills me. So wasteful and unnecessary! And another few months of breaking in a bed...that could feel different due to inconsistencies in latex...might also kill me...I'm finally sleeping! Even if it's on a crooked surface.

I feel like a terrible, wasteful person if I accept this full warranty. I'm wondering if I should just return the box spring and try the mattress on a platform...but then if that doesn't work, my trial is up tomorrow and I'm consigned to a bed that really DOES need to be warrantied. The CS gal was just reading me a script over the phone...I wish I could have worked out a less extreme solution with someone with more power, like trying the floor and then making a decision. I also considered asking if I could just "buy" the bed at cost/factory 2nd pricing. Part of the insult is just how much I paid for it, for what I received.

I realize I'm really lucky to even be in this position, but I think this is all the life-of-luxury and choice I can take. My mantra after this will just have to be "good enough!" After really hating the Zenhaven initially, to just resenting it for a few months, to actually getting it almost comfortable recently...I'm wondering if we and the beds just eventually break in enough that you can sleep on just about anything half well made and in your weight class, if you give it enough time.

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27 Sep 2018 16:10 #13 by sweetandsourkiwi
Thanks Cloud999. What brand was your bed frame/where did you get it? I know everyone is different, etc, but I don't think I have a PPP for a foundation...

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27 Sep 2018 16:32 #14 by Cloud999
Replied by Cloud999 on topic Zenhaven Foundation
I've never seen the Zenhaven foundation except in photos.
I don't see much detail about its construction on the Zenhaven site.
From your photo, it appears to me that the distance between the slats is at least double the width of each slat. That may be much farther apart than I'd want. The queen-sized platform bed I recently bought has 20 hardwood slats "each about 2 3⁄8" wide and spaced about 1 5⁄8" apart" according to the online specs. Brooklyn Bedding's recommended slat spacing is 3". Savvy Rest apparently sells a foundation with slats spaced 2.5" to 3" apart. Wood tends to bend if it isn't sized and spaced adequately for the load.

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27 Sep 2018 16:35 #15 by sweetandsourkiwi
I know, I can't find details anywhere. I'm tempted to cut it open since it's warrantied anyway and not working...

Kinda ironic since they forbid a slat foundation! I thought I could feel cardboard between the slats but I think it's just the thick fabric, based on the light.

The slats are far apart but there's a few closer together towards my feet (and yes it's pointing the right way). I think what's really missing would be a center support...

Where did you get your foundation?

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28 Sep 2018 06:22 #16 by Cloud999
Replied by Cloud999 on topic Zenhaven Foundation
I ordered my platform bed frame from Vermont Wood Studios. It's the "Dovetail Platform Bed" made by Maple Corner Woodworks. The "KD Frames Nomad Plus Platform Bed", available on Amazon, also appears to be sturdy and is much less expensive. The "Plus" version of that bed apparently has less than 3" between slats.

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28 Sep 2018 07:49 #17 by sweetandsourkiwi
Wow, the Vermont Studios is lovely! I'm indeed more in the KD camp budget wise...thanks for the recommendation!

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28 Sep 2018 11:53 #18 by thaliadaniels
Replied by thaliadaniels on topic Zenhaven Foundation
[color=]I also received the Saatva adjustable base to go with my Zenhaven mattress. Traditional sleep systems can make it difficult for the heart to properly distribute blood throughout the body. They can also make it hard for you to sleep ergonomically. However, adjustable bases allow for even distribution of pressure over the entire sleeping surface. This product can be added to your order for an additional $1,199 – $2,498 depending on the size. Just a few features you can enjoy with this addition include:

One-touch remote
Zero gravity support
Wall-hugging design
Wave, leg, and head massage[/color]

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28 Sep 2018 14:33 #19 by sweetandsourkiwi
Today is the last day of my trial and as I took the bed apart yet again to send pictures to the factory, I decided to accept Zenhaven's offer to warranty it and just see how that goes.

As my Dad pointed out, this is how they choose to do business, to the point that they've created a script for it for the customer service agents. It's not a personal chat with a local shop-owner; I'm part of their system now, a number in their machine, there are procedures and protocols they have uniformly applied and need to follow.

I do hope to persuade them to donate my current bed, though, even if I have to manage it myself. I think maybe the boxspring should be thrown away with the amount it's bowing. And yes kids, I put a level on my bedframe, she's not the culprit here.

At best, maybe the new mattress will arrive a little softer with variations in latex and hand-sewing and it will feel like the $2k experience I hoped for at the outset. At medium, I might have to make it work with a new platform and some extra padding. At worst, I'll have a few more months to learn what's working and not working for me. (And I'll feel terrible if I have to return it after all this, but might as well give them another shot to do this right. It literally costs me nothing except guilt.)

Anyway, I made some more discoveries about the Zenhaven today, stuff you can't easily find on their site. For instance, they blend the organic wool with rayon and polypropelene. Who knew? They don't technically lie on this, you just have to know it to read it from the description. "Our flame-retardant contains a pure blend of 100% organic New Zealand wool and non-toxic materials..." Ah, a blend. I read that as a blend of wools and like, maybe some threads that weren't toxic to hold it together or repel bugs or reality, it is a blend of half wool, half polypro.

Polypropelene is not a high-leech plastic and it is indeed pretty harmless to us. Environmentally, though, it's still plastic, doesn't biodegrade, and by blending it with the wool, they are essentially negating any environmental benefits the 100% organic wool might have had. (Of course, there is a case to made that just shipping this thing ruins all the eco-friendliness, but felt this should be pointed out too.) I knew there was some reason the Zenhaven was a little greenwashy, I think this and the glue is the reason why.

(And yes, I did push my luck and ask if I could pass on the glue in the mattress. They said no.)

If I could do it all over again, I think I'd just go with a local manufacturer who ships layers and builds my own. I think if you're seriously considering a Zenhaven for the reasons I imagine most might, in the end the ability to swap layers (especially lighter layers which will break down before the others) and components, customize and also eliminate ALL the inorganic parts possible, is the best bang for your buck. I wanted the "simplicity" of a "simplified choice" and the help from the delivery people, but in the end the cost is too similar to not make the investment in a component style bed.

I do see a business opening, though, for someone to sell component latex mattresses with the same level of "service" as a big company like Saatva...bundling the delivery and setup in, sending people out to get returns, presenting a well-designed modern website that offers simplified choices. It might cost a little more, but even as a super frugal person, I wish I could have outsourced some of the decision making and assembly required for the more local-type companies. I work in web ux, and one of our principles is "don't make me think." Not because people are dumb, but because we have SO MUCH already to think through.

I've attached my tag if anyone wants to see it.

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29 Sep 2018 04:29 #20 by Cloud999
Replied by Cloud999 on topic Zenhaven Foundation
I have a couple weeks left in my own Zenhaven trial. The Luxury Plush side seems to leave me with back pain. The Comfort Firm side does not, but when I'm on my side I feel pressure points. I think the 1.5" comfort layer is too thin. The topper alleviates that, but I just don't like the feeling of the topper. It feels squishy and too warm, and the covering apparently doesn't have any wool in it. With or without the topper, the mattress isn't awful, but it's not $2K worth of wonderfulness, either.

On the other hand ... it's now the devil I know. I'm inclined to replace it with a SleepEZ zipped-in system, but if I don't like that, another return will be a big hassle. And I, too, don't like the idea of sending 140 pounds of new rubber to a landfill.

I think a nearly ideal mattress package would be the Zenhaven with a zipper, but without glue between layers. Deliver it fully assembled, but with the option of moving layers around or replacing them. Then if nothing works, come haul it away. How much more could a zipper and no glue cost? They'd keep a few more customers.

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