mattressunderground logo
×
Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial linked in the top right corner.
Select the Search Forum tab above to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab above to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Model Change-up at Brooklyn Bedding?

More
03 Apr 2019 15:12 - 03 Apr 2019 16:18 #21 by wormraper
good to know Phx is a mecca for mattresses lol.

and as for the Plank I called in and got the ILD ratings as well as lb ratings for the foam density

the base poly foam is 50 ild with a 1.8 lb per ft density
the top titan foam on the ultra firm side is 50 ild with a 1.5 lb density
and the "plush firm" side is 36 ild with a 1.5 lb density.

which if my readings from the tutorials are correct, means it's basically at the "middle of the road" for a person with a bmi of 31 ....am I correct or am I reading it wrong ??? (it's a flippable mattress and the core is 1.8, which was the recommended min density, but the top 1.5 and 2 inch foam layers on either side are 1.5, so I'm not sure if that's ok or not)
Last edit: 03 Apr 2019 16:18 by wormraper.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Apr 2019 16:00 #22 by Sensei
Hey wormraper,

Phoenix is totally a mecca in the mattress world, but manufacturing and retail... it's kind of strange, but growing city, good for business, etc. etc. Plus for many small businesses, I have heard many many times, that moving from LA to Phonix happens a lot, just too expensive to do business in CA...but that's another conversation for a different forum.

Thanks for the update on the Plank mattress. You are correct with the min. for BMI 30 or more, would be the 1.8lb. I would be cautious with the 1.5lb top layers, these will definitely break down relatively quickly, especially being so close to the body, top of the mattress.

Thanks again for the specs.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Apr 2019 16:14 - 06 Apr 2019 16:23 #23 by wormraper
good to know. we ordered the plank anyways as it was still one of the better deals that I could find. Most everything else was below 3 lbs for mem foam, or 1.5lbs or LESS for poly foam. At least unless I wanted to add 50-100% of our budget for something else (we just purchased a car last week, so spending more than $999 for the mattress was out of the question). We'll see how it goes as the Plank was the closest to "optimal" specs as we could get for our budget :(
Last edit: 06 Apr 2019 16:23 by wormraper.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Apr 2019 11:43 #24 by Sensei
Hey wormraper,

Really good points, and please don't take our "guidelines" to mean you "will' have a problem, you did the due diligence and made a decision with a lot more information than 95% of shoppers, so kudos to you...and as you mentioned "budget" is critical to all consumers, fundamental to the buying process,. Congrats on your new mattress.

Anytime you have any questions, we look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
24 Jul 2019 17:57 #25 by kelley509
Hi Sensei,

Could you help me understand your reply about the seashells a bit better? I have been trying to find more info on this very question and this is the only place where I see it has come up. Am I understanding the following correctly?

1) When it comes down to it, the latex BB is using is a blend of natural (rubber tree sap) and synthetic (the shells, etc.).

2) BB is getting its latex from Talalay Global, which means they also use this same blend of natural/synthetic.

3) Despite the above, you still feel that this is high quality latex.

Am I right on all three accounts? Two follow up questions. First, what is the precise question to ask companies when trying to determine if the latex is 100% rubber tree sap, or if it has other components? I have read through the guides but am still a bit fuzzy on the intricacies here, and sometimes their responses about 100% natural leave me hesitant to continue questioning it (because I'm not confident in my knowledge). Second, if you do feel this blended latex is still high quality, where do you draw the line on what is high quality? Meaning, is a partially synthetic blend totally fine with respect to feel and durability when the blend is made of certain materials, but not when it's made of others? I have been running the other way when I hear "synthetic," but if there are some types of synthetics that don't make a difference, that might keep a few mattresses on my list.

Thank you for any advice you can give!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
25 Jul 2019 17:58 #26 by Sensei
Hi kelley509,

Welcome to the forum :).

Thanks for the message. I looked back on the earlier post, and I do reference silica, a filler used by some manufacturers. Sea shells? I thought maybe you are making a joke, but instead, my apologies if I have miscommunicated something.

Regarding latex (rubber) ... there are two different types of raw materials that are used to make latex foam. Each of these materials can be used to make a foam using two different foaming processes.

The raw material used to make latex foam is either natural latex which actually comes from the rubber tree and synthetic latex which is made from SBR (styrene-butadiene). Many latex foams are made from a blend of the two (such as 70% SBR and 30% Natural latex or NR). Natural latex is more elastic and stretchy. SBR is more abrasion resistant and can be made more resistant to aging degradation. It is also easier to work with in terms of consistency. NR is more expensive than SBR. Blends are often used for reasons of cost, desirable combinations of certain latex qualities, and ease of working with the material. NR is often used for its natural qualities and because it is more elastic and resilient.

The two different methods used to make the foams are the Dunlop process (the original method) and the Talalay process (a newer more high tech method although it has been used for decades). The Dunlop process has two main variations and one is made in a mold and the other is made with a continuous pour method on a moving belt.

Talalay latex is made by two manufacturers and they absolutely make very high-quality products, Radium Foam and Talalay Global.

1) When it comes down to it, the latex BB is using is a blend of natural (rubber tree sap) and synthetic (the shells, etc.).


No, as I explained above.

2) BB is getting its latex from Talalay Global, which means they also use this same blend of natural/synthetic.


Brooklyn Bedding gets both Blended and 100% natural from multiple suppliers. Yes, Talalay Global is one of their suppliers.

3) Despite the above, you still feel that this is high quality latex.


It is a fact that Talalay from Talalay Global is a high-quality latex.

Regarding the last paragraph about precise questions to ask, I totally understand that it is confusing. I am also saying blended is good quality in terms of durability and pressure relief, but some people are opposed to having synthetic products of any kind, and I totally respect that opinion. I am neutral on preference and just try to discuss more of the benefits of all latex products.

I would ask a few questions. For starters there are two basic questions...1.Process - Dunlop or Talalay, 2. Formula - either blended or 100% natural. People like to use words like "made with natural latex" trying to hide the fact they use blended latex in their mattress. Then you may be able to ask where do they source the latex? and Who is the latex producer?

Of course as always ask about the density and ILD of the latex they are using.

People like to talk about all different arcane questions about fillers and very specific %'s, there is really no way to verify and it will get you mired in details that are not as important as Process, Formula, Density/ILD...and latex manufacturer if possible.

Please message back and I would be glad to help more in any way I can.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
25 Jul 2019 19:19 #27 by kelley509
Thank you, Sensei, for the welcome and for the response! Please forgive me in advance if I'm still missing something obvious, but I'm still confused about what you'd call these other types of fillers and how they specifically will affect the latex quality.

To recap, on 2/28/19 The Toddler wrote:

So I've been reading reviews of the new Bloom Hybrid model with great interest. However, I am a little confused about something they said about their latex. In the questions section, I asked if they used 100% natural latex, and this was the reply: "Our Bloom Hybrid mattress is made with high-quality Talalay latex foam, this is 30% natural latex and 70% natural fillers such as sand , ground seashells, etc. Our latex is also Oeko-Tex Certified meaning that there are no toxic or harmful chemicals used in our material." I've never heard this description of blended latex before. Sand and seashells? Is this something different than the usual blend of natural latex and SBR that you commonly see in mattress specs?


Your response on 3/1/19 was:

I have to say I've never seen any latex described with sand and seashells as the filler. That is kind of funny, But also very mattress industryish marketing. The telly late text they use is the blended version which is 30% natural 70% synthetic. They're just trying a little too hard to talk about the fillers which tell a global has used in the latex forever. The funniest part is the "filler" commonly used by some latex manufacturers is "silica" which is actually Silicon dioxide, most commonly found in nature as quartz and in various living organisms. In many parts of the world, silica is the major constituent of sand. BB uses the talalay latex made by Talalay Global in Connecticut and this is a high-quality comfort layer in any mattress.

(As I mentioned, it might be that I'm reading your response incorrectly)

In your response to me today, you stated:

The raw material used to make latex foam is either natural latex which actually comes from the rubber tree and synthetic latex which is made from SBR (styrene-butadiene). Many latex foams are made from a blend of the two (such as 70% SBR and 30% Natural latex or NR).


However, I'm still stuck on my original question - what does this mean specifically with respect to the BB foam? I had been strongly considering the Bloom Hybrid mattress, but became concerned about the latex after I chatted with a customer service agent (maybe 2-3 weeks ago?). I asked about the latex they use and got this response: "Our Bloom Hybrid mattress is made with high-quality Talalay latex foam, this is 30% natural latex and 70% natural fillers such as sand, ground seashells, etc. By mixing the synthetic material along with the natural materials it actually makes the latex more durable and longer lasting. It doesn't affect the cooling of the mattress nor change the firmness compared to 100% organic. By using the synthetic materials we are able to make the latex Class 1 Oeko-Tex certified which means it is safe for babies."

I couldn't find anyone else trying to find out more about this specifically except for the post here from TheToddler. To finally clear everything up, would you say that the statement the rep made about "70% natural fillers" in the BB foam is actually just code for SBR? Or, is there a third option that you didn't mention? Is this perhaps more of a natural alternative to SBR, not using rubber tree sap but maybe using fewer chemicals or materials?

Either way, will this latex (with only 30% actual rubber tree sap) hold up well in the long run as compared to all natural latex, or should I remove this BB mattress from my list of options (as if I were to find it was a low density memory foam as opposed to a memory foam > 4.0lbs, for example)? My primary concern is the durability, not the chemicals. I only switched to looking (and paying) for mattresses with latex after reading how much more durable it is, but if this 30% blend with other stuff is inferior, I'd rather move on.

Thank you for your patience and help!

-Kelley

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jul 2019 13:39 #28 by Sensei
Hey kelley509,

Thanks for asking again, no worries at all. The problem with the quoted description is its just not written well and makes everything more confusing. The Talalay latex that BB uses is Talalay Globals classic blended Talalay. It is not something new or different, the issue is the Bloom description trying to spin the formula in a better light, as they worry about using the word synthetic.

It should read like my edited version:

Our Bloom Hybrid mattress is made with high-quality Talalay latex foam, this is 30% natural latex and 70% Synthetic latex natural fillers such as sand, ground seashells, etc. By mixing the synthetic material along with the natural materials it actually makes the latex more durable and longer lasting. It doesn't affect the cooling of the mattress nor change the firmness compared to 100% organic. By using the synthetic materials we are able to make the latex Class 1 Oeko-Tex certified which means it is safe for babies."

To finally clear everything up, would you say that the statement the rep made about "70% natural fillers" in the BB foam is actually just code for SBR? Or, is there a third option that you didn't mention? Is this perhaps more of a natural alternative to SBR, not using rubber tree sap but maybe using fewer chemicals or materials?


Either way, will this latex (with only 30% actual rubber tree sap) hold up well in the long run as compared to all natural latex, or should I remove this BB mattress from my list of options (as if I were to find it was a low density memory foam as opposed to a memory foam > 4.0lbs, for example)? My primary concern is the durability, not the chemicals. I only switched to looking (and paying) for mattresses with latex after reading how much more durable it is, but if this 30% blend with other stuff is inferior, I'd rather move on.


Yes, the statement is code for SBR, but it is bad code for SBR. Blended Talalay is most often used because it can create a more durable foam than 100% natural Talalay ... especially in the softer versions ILD's.

Phoenix also sums up this question about Talalay in this blended vs natural latex post .

Please message again I don't mind at all.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • FREE Consumer Membership & Price Discounts

    Offered to consumers who Create an Account to register on OUR FORUM to ask questions or share mattress related experiences. Additionally, Consumer Members of TMU will receive discounts/bonuses from some of the best quality/value Mattress Manufacturers in North America.

     

  • CONNECTING Consumers with Trusted Manufacturers & Retailers

    The Mattress Underground (TMU) website connects consumers with the most Trusted Manufacturers & Retailers throughout North America. All TMU Members have agreed to provide TMU consumer members price discounts/bonus higher or equal to all other discounts offered throughout the Internet.

      • For eCommerce purchases, please check here for the unique discount code(s) offered by each of the TMU Trusted members.
      • When purchasing locally simply present the referral certificate provided by the TMU Trusted Member linked above or mention “The Mattress Underground” when visiting their store.

     

  • QUALITY Manufacturers & KNOWLEDGEABLE Retailers

    The Business membership of this site is by invitation only and is only offered when we are satisfied that what you offer places you in the upper tier of mattress manufacturers & retailers across North America in terms of quality, knowledge & transparency, and service. If you believe that your company meets the quality/value criteria please complete and submit the PMAF form here to start the review process.

    Membership Requirements

  • Membership Disclosure

    The Mattress Underground offers free consumer membership & paid membership for select mattress manufacturers or retailers. Member dues/fees are our source of income as The Mattress Underground is expensive to operate and employs people. For those manufacturers or retailers that have been invited to become members, and for any consumer that wishes to find their "best fit" mattress, we hope you choose to take advantage of what TMU offers as we believe the value of our services and information, our willingness and ability to work on behalf of and connect educated consumers with the better retailers and manufacturers across the US and Canada, are second to none on the internet. Mattress manufacturer and retailer memberships are available for companies that sell directly to consumers, but are by invitation only.

    In order to ensure full transparency with our readers, we’d like to disclose the following about our member relationships:

    • Consumer have free membership but can voluntarily donate to helping TMU operate.
    • Mattress retailers that qualify to be a Trusted Member pay monthly dues/fees.
    • Mattress manufacturers that qualify to be a Trusted Member pay monthly dues/fees
    More information about the benefits and services that TMU members receive can be found on the Our Services page of this website