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2 sided mattress question 26 Jun 2016 07:12 #1

Hello

I have a quick question about a 2 sided mattress im thinking of purchasing.

Its a therapedic medicoil, but it doesn't say its HD like the therapedic website shows, so i can't be sure.the things they advertise are actually in it or not. It is 2 sided, so i made sure to ask about the material in more detail. The retailer was able to get me some specs, though they were incomplete (ive emailed therapedic w/ more questions).

The issue im concerned about is sinking into the other side of the mattress and "breaking down" the material from the other end (reverse impression). Is that a cause for concern? The spec says the BASE layer is a 2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad. If the materials aren't strong enough (high enough density) might i just end up ruining the other side aswell (and therefore just sinking in further)? What kind of strength should the fiber pad be in order to support the coils reliably? The coils are said to be "TRI ZONE" at 858 (15 gauge, 14 in center third).

Also what gauge is generally preferred for people who have heavier hips? I weigh about 195.

Any help would be appreciated. :)

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2 sided mattress question 26 Jun 2016 09:15 #2

Hi Mike77,

The issue im concerned about is sinking into the other side of the mattress and "breaking down" the material from the other end (reverse impression). Is that a cause for concern? The spec says the BASE layer is a 2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad.


"Eco fiber pad" is a trade name that doesn't say what the material actually is so I would need to know what the material was made of to make any meaningful comments about it.

Since they are describing it as a base layer it's also possible that it's a stabilization layer used under the innerspring and that the mattress is one sided rather than two sided. You would need to know the specifics of all the layers and components from top to bottom to know for sure.

If the materials aren't strong enough (high enough density) might i just end up ruining the other side aswell (and therefore just sinking in further)? What kind of strength should the fiber pad be in order to support the coils reliably?


When you sleep on a mattress the upper layers of foam will compress and deflect more than the deeper layers or components partly because the comfort layers are usually made to be softer than the deeper transition and support layers or components of a mattress (and firmness/softness is also a factor in the durability of a material) and partly because they are closer to the sleeping surface and subject to direct compression without any layers above them absorbing some of the compression forces first. It's this constant deflection of the materials in the upper layers of the mattress that softens and breaks down the foam materials and leads to the loss of comfort and support of the mattress over time. This is why the quality/durability of the upper layers (the top 3" to 6" of the mattress) are especially important in the durability and useful life of the mattress as a whole because they will usually be the weakest link in the mattress in terms of durability. If the material on the bottom of a mattress is relatively durable it generally wouldn't be a weakest link in the mattress.

The coils are said to be "TRI ZONE" at 858 (15 gauge, 14 in center third).

Also what gauge is generally preferred for people who have heavier hips? I weigh about 195.


The gauge of the coils in an innerspring are only one of many variables that can affect the feel and firmness of the innerspring (coil number, coil shape, coil height, number of turns, coil diameter, coil arrangement, and the type of innerspring are some of the others) so by itself the gauge of an innerspring isn't particularly meaningful.

All the layers and components in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will also affect the feel and performance of all the other layers above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so some mattresses that use a specific innerspring may be a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) while other mattresses that use the same innerspring but have a different combination of materials and components on one or both sides of the innerspring may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on. In other words ... the most reliable way to know whether any innerspring mattress is a suitable choice for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

Since an innerspring isn't normally the weakest link in a mattress and the useful life of a mattress will depend much more on the types of materials or components that are on top of the innerspring than the innerspring itself ... if an innerspring mattress keeps you in good alignment and the mattress "as a whole" is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP then the innerspring itself would be a suitable choice for that particular mattress design.

There is also more about the pros and cons of different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

2 sided mattress question 27 Jun 2016 08:44 #3

It says its a 2 sided mattress. The specs that ive been able to get are(and this is what it says on the spec sheet)::

Medicoil 2 sided
Laguna Cushion Firm

Quilting: 1" Poly Foam
Plus Celestia FR Fibers

Build up: 1" Poly Foam Topper
2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad

Unit: 858 Tri-Zone (15 Gauge, 14 Gauge in the center third)
High Profile Foam Encased
Individually Wrapped Coil Unit

Base: 2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad

Borders: Multi Quilt Border With Contrast Ribbon

Foundation: Semi Flex Steel Grid Foundation


I assume the Base is simply part of the "build up" of the other side of the mattress?

Physics would say that any compression of the coils would have to transmit into the bottom of the mattress, so wouldn't the "sink" i get at the top have to be transmitted to the bottom, but just in there reverse direction?. Is it possible that , if the layers are cheap, that this could cause the mattress to fail in the reverse direction aswell? So, in other words, not only the upper layers need to be good quality, but also the upper layers of the reverse side?

What im looking for is something that generally stops my hips. And this mattress does do that. But im concerned that the comfort layers might make it worse by failing on both sides over time and making my hips therefore sink even deeper (through the top side and by adding extra give to the springs on the reverse side).. Since the mattress itself is only about $500 (699.99 w/ the foundation), it makes me wonder even more.

I agree that id certainly have to know more about the mattress before i buy it. Ive emailed therapedic in the hopes that they can give me more specific information about the layers themselves.

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2 sided mattress question 27 Jun 2016 08:54 #4

I found an article that sums it up quite nicely.

Excerpt:

"Foam Quality
The price of crude oil was on the rise, and the economy was not great. To save money, the big manufacturers began cutting foam quality to save money. They have gradually went from the 1.8-pound density to as low as 0.9 pound in some models. Polly foam is made from chemical derived from crude oil. Many consumers first experience with a one-sided bed was one with the low-density foam, and it failed quickly. The natural assumption is that the problem is the one-sided design. The fact is if that same mattress had been made two-sided with the same low density it would have failed faster with bigger problems."

beloitmattress.com/to-flip-or-not-mattress/

The BOLD is my concern. Specifically where he notes the "low density".

Ill keep you posted if i find anything else about it.

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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

2 sided mattress question 27 Jun 2016 09:07 #5

I thought of another question. Last one for now ...i promise. :P

Should i consider "break in" and the fact that the materials are probably not pre compressed (something else to ask therapedic) as a long term loss in support? So maybe it feels supportive now, but might not be that way in 6 months to 1 year?

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2 sided mattress question 27 Jun 2016 14:54 #6

Hi Mike77,

Medicoil 2 sided
Laguna Cushion Firm

Quilting: 1" Poly Foam
Plus Celestia FR Fibers

Build up: 1" Poly Foam Topper
2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad

Unit: 858 Tri-Zone (15 Gauge, 14 Gauge in the center third)
High Profile Foam Encased
Individually Wrapped Coil Unit

Base: 2" High Loft Eco Fiber Pad

Borders: Multi Quilt Border With Contrast Ribbon

Foundation: Semi Flex Steel Grid Foundation


If it was two sided it would generally list the same comfort layers on both sides of the mattress unless each side has a different firmness level in which case in more "practical" terms it would effectively be one sided since most people would only tend to sleep on the side with the firmness level that they prefer for "most" of the time anyway.

Physics would say that any compression of the coils would have to transmit into the bottom of the mattress, so wouldn't the "sink" i get at the top have to be transmitted to the bottom, but just in there reverse direction?. Is it possible that , if the layers are cheap, that this could cause the mattress to fail in the reverse direction aswell? So, in other words, not only the upper layers need to be good quality, but also the upper layers of the reverse side?


All the layers and components of a mattress will compress to a different degree or percentage of their thickness based on their firmness level, thickness, what is above them, and how deep they are inside the mattress. The amount they all compress together will contribute to how much different parts of your body sink in to the mattress and the depth of the pressure relieving cradle which in turn will affect the comfort and pressure relief and the secondary support of the mattress. Softer layers compress more than firmer layers, thicker layers compress more than thinner layers, all layers compress less when there are thicker or firmer layers above them, and upper layers compress more than deeper layers.

The upper foam layers will tend to compress and deflect more than the deeper layers because the upper layers of foam will absorb and disperse some of the pressure forces before they reach the deeper layers (although you are correct that steel springs have less hysteresis than foam layers) so the durability of the layers that you sleep on directly are more important than the layers that are closer to the bottom of a mattress which normally aren't the weakest link in a mattress.

If you are sleeping on both sides of a mattress because you are flipping it on a regular basis then the durability of the upper layers on both sides would be important but because you would only be sleeping on each side for about 1/2 the time it would be "safe" to use a little bit less durable materials with a two sided mattress that you flip on a regular basis (see post #2 here ). This is why a two sided mattress can be a more durable choice than a similar mattress that has the same comfort layers on only one side of the mattress. There is more about the pros and cons of one sided vs two sided mattresses in post #3 here and the posts it links to.

Should i consider "break in" and the fact that the materials are probably not pre compressed (something else to ask therapedic) as a long term loss in support? So maybe it feels supportive now, but might not be that way in 6 months to 1 year?


The mattresses that you test in the stores will most likely already be broken in so I would test them "as they are" assuming that the materials and components in a mattress are "durable enough" for your body type.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

2 sided mattress question 29 Jun 2016 09:52 #7

Good stuff. Since my local retailer sold the floor model, they will be getting a new model in this week, so i should be able to try it fresh from the manufacturer.

It does say that it's 2 sided and i did confirm this in the store before they sold it yesterday.

I have contacted therapedic and was able to leave a message with someone. Hopefully they'll call me back soon, so i can get my questions answered.

I will post again if i have anything to run by you. Which im sure i will.

Thanks so much for your help.

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2 sided mattress question 29 Jun 2016 11:02 #8

Mike77:

I can confirm for you that this is definitely not the MediCoil HD line. Many Therapedic Licensees will reuse names (MediCoil is trademarked by Therapedic) for different parts of their lineups. It varies by region.

If you left a message for Therapedic corporate in New Jersey, they will more than likely forward your note to the licensee in your area, because as I mentioned earlier each licensee is allowed latitude to produce their own specific lines.

What part of the country do you live in?
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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2 sided mattress question 29 Jun 2016 12:44 #9

I have spoken w/ Therapedic new England and they confirmed that its not a part of the HD line, but medicoil 2 (for 2 sided), which is a regionally produced offshoot of the national brand. He also confirmed that the BASE layer in the spec sheet means one of the build up layers on the other side of the mattress.

He also told me that the poly foam on top is 1.8 LBS density. And the 2" High Loft Eco Fiber pad is a polyester Fiber pad made out of recycled water bottles. They specifically tried to push the idea that it reduced the carbon footprint on the planet. Beyond that they didn't seem to know anything about it. And how on earth you determine the durability of that is beyond me. They did not know the weight of that layer either.

The coils (twice tempered) are the only thing precompressed in the mattress. So that leaves the 1" Polyfoam, the 1" Poly foam Topper and the Eco Fiber pad to assess.

The poly layers are probably OK, but any extra info you could give me on the Eco Fiber Pad would be great.

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Last edit: by Mike77.

2 sided mattress question 29 Jun 2016 12:58 #10

Mike77:

I don't have any information on the fiber pad for you, as I am not part of that licensee group. Your best source for that information would be the licensee and your retailer. Just like foams, there are different firmnesses and qualities of these pads. They may provide you an ounce rating for the product. Some of these fibers can be quite soft and others quite firm. Here's a link to one particular brand and type of fiber, just as an example. I have no idea if the mattress you're considering is using anything like this.

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: indratech-us.com/index.html
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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